California smog standards & registering a bike from out of state

[flathead47]

I'm considering buying an old '77 BMW with 52,000 miles on it from outside of California and having it shipped here. And I'm wondering if I will have any problems registering here due to CA smog emission standards. I found this information from the CA DMV website that sounds like it would be exempt:

Currently, smog inspections are required for all vehicles except diesel powered vehicles 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs, electric, natural gas powered vehicles over 14,000 lbs, motorcycles, trailers, or gasoline powered vehicles 1975 and older.

But though that says smog inspections are not required, it doesn't address registering an old bike from out of state.

I also found a relatively recent forum post here from a 2015 discussion on registering a new vehicle:

Buying a Vehicle From Out of State - Can You Register it in California? (FFVR 29)

The Bottom Line

If you are a California resident and acquire a new car, truck, or motorcycle from another state, it must be certified to meet California smog laws to be registered in California. This includes certain diesel-powered vehicles. DMV cannot accept an application to register a vehicle in California that does not qualify for registration (California Health and Safety Code §§43150 - 43156).

What Is Considered a New Vehicle?

California considers any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer at the time of purchase or trade by a California resident or business, to be a new vehicle. This is true whether or not the vehicle has been registered in another state.

I see the information in that forum post still listed on the CA DMV site here. That seems to be saying any older vehicle with over 7500 miles on it brought in from out of state may not be required to be certified as meeting California smog laws.

Can anyone confirm that I shouldn't have any problems registering an old bike like this one here if I have it shipped from out of state?

Thanks for any feedback on this.

 

[20774]

Welcome to the forum! There's a thread in the Similar Threads pane below that has some info, although it's nearly 10 years old. Maybe trying to call someone on the hotline rather than interpreting the laws yourself...I have trouble with the legalize.

 

[pauls1150]

California presently has NO smog inspection requirement for motorcycles. (Prob'ly because it's not cost effective...) The ABATE site is going through some reconstruction (www.abate.org) but a member in your area can point you to more specific info.

From https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/smogfaq
Does my vehicle qualify for a smog exemption?
Smog inspections are required unless your vehicle is:
Gasoline powered 1975 year model or older
Diesel powered 1997 year model and older or with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating (GVWR) of more than 14,000 lbs
Electric
Natural gas powered with a GVWR rating of more than 14,000 lbs.
Motorcycle

Just by chance timing, I've witnessed a few guys at the local DMVs registering their bikes - the only things that were looked at were the frame & engine numbers (if the engine # is not on the title, they may direct you to take a "rubbing" of it by placing a piece of paper over it and lightly sliding a soft pencil on that to take a "fingerprint"), lighting required FOR THAT YEAR of manufacture, reasonable mufflers, and a mirror.

I really doubt that even the "motorcycle specialist" at the DMV office would spot a clean-looking removal of the air injection system that some airheads had, and I've never heard of anybody getting dinged for lacking a carbon canister on their oilheads (including me) (but that WILL get you a "Fail!" on your car). I think (but don't know fer sure) that only a few Arizona counties have a m/c smog inspection.

 

[R184]

I recently registered a '04 R1150RT in CA from out of state. There is no smog check/requirement on M/C's. But there will be a physical examination of the M/C by an examiner. Because of the infamous long waits at CA DMV, I did my registration at AAA. It was a lot quicker and less trouble. But the AAA examiner, who is certified by CA DMV, did check the bikes exhaust for the factory stamped smog/emissions certification. He told me if the bike would have had an after market exhaust, he prob. would not have signed off on registering the bike.

But your bike being a 1977 year model may be exempt from that type of inspection. Have you tried e-mailing AAA or the CA DMV and ask them what type of exhaust/emission requirement, if any would be required?

 

[t6pilot]

If it has current tags from another state and you have the title go to the auto club(if your a member) takes all the hassle out of registration

Jim

 

[flathead47]

Thanks for all your thoughts on this folks. I'll contact AAA on this as has been suggested. I've been a member for many, many years and they've always been fantastic when dealing with insurance and the DMV. I do know the exhaust system on the bike I'm looking at is Keihan stainless and not not OEM, so I'll point that out.

 

[Omega Man]

I guess I would ask at an inspection station. Perhaps the one you would normally use.
OM

 

[lgb]

License and Title from out of state.

Over the years I've bought about five bikes from out of state and brought them into CA. Each and every one of them had the numbers verified by CHP (CA. Highway Patrol), both engine and frame. I thought AAA would be able to process and inspect; nope, sorry we don't do that... They told me to go to the DMV and get the transfer forms for an out of state moto, then go to the CHP for inspection, then back to the DMV for the transfer and to pick up the license plate. And of course pay all the exorbitant fees and taxes.

Best and easier to make an appointment with DMV. Also, you'll need to make an appointment with CHP for VIN verfication. Have your paper work ready and know where the numbers are on the engine and frame.
Just a pain, but doable.
Good luck.

 

[flathead47]

Over the years I've bought about five bikes from out of state and brought them into CA. Each and every one of them had the numbers verified by CHP (CA. Highway Patrol), both engine and frame. I thought AAA would be able to process and inspect; nope, sorry we don't do that... They told me to go to the DMV and get the transfer forms for an out of state moto, then go to the CHP for inspection, then back to the DMV for the transfer and to pick up the license plate. And of course pay all the exorbitant fees and taxes.

Best and easier to make an appointment with DMV. Also, you'll need to make an appointment with CHP for VIN verfication. Have your paper work ready and know where the numbers are on the engine and frame.
Just a pain, but doable.
Good luck.

Wow... Thanks for all those very helpful details lgb. I've only just found the bike I'm most interested in buying online. So at this point I'm wondering if there's anything I need to determine in advance of making a purchase that might disqualify a bike from registering in CA, such as:

1. Will an aftermarket exhaust system meet CA emissions requirements
2. Do engine & frame numbers match, and is one or the other (VIN?) on the state's current registration.

Anything else? Did you make sure the bikes you brought into CA complied with registration requirements before you completed the purchases lgb?

 

[flathead47]

I recently registered a '04 R1150RT in CA from out of state. There is no smog check/requirement on M/C's. But there will be a physical examination of the M/C by an examiner. Because of the infamous long waits at CA DMV, I did my registration at AAA. It was a lot quicker and less trouble. But the AAA examiner, who is certified by CA DMV, did check the bikes exhaust for the factory stamped smog/emissions certification. He told me if the bike would have had an after market exhaust, he prob. would not have signed off on registering the bike.

But your bike being a 1977 year model may be exempt from that type of inspection. Have you tried e-mailing AAA or the CA DMV and ask them what type of exhaust/emission requirement, if any would be required?

Interesting to hear AAA processed your bike r184. I'll give AAA a call tomorrow and ask them about all this. As I wrote previously, the bike I'm looking at has an aftermarket Keihan stainless exhaust system. I hope that won't be an issue. I'll see if I can get a call through to DMV too and try to confirm things with them.

 

[flathead47]

You're not kidding about those exorbitant fees and taxes lgb! This from what I estimated in the Vehicle Registration Fee Calculator: https://www.dmv.ca.gov/wasapp/FeeCalculatorWeb/newResidentForm.do

 

[lgb]

Wow... Thanks for all those very helpful details lgb. I've only just found the bike I'm most interested in buying online. So at this point I'm wondering if there's anything I need to determine in advance of making a purchase that might disqualify a bike from registering in CA, such as:

1. Will an aftermarket exhaust system meet CA emissions requirements
2. Do engine & frame numbers match, and is one or the other (VIN?) on the state's current registration.

Anything else? Did you make sure the bikes you brought into CA complied with registration requirements before you completed the purchases lgb?

1. Well... I doubt it seriously unless 'they' changed something in the last 18 months. They didn't flag a 2007 ST3s with a Ducati Performance exhaust.
They didn't flag a 640 KTM A with an aftermarket exhaust. I doubt seriously if their would be a concern.

2. What I witnessed when CHP did the inspection was... they looked at the 'out of state' title and the corresponding numbers on the title and looked for the same on the frame and engine. Some states didn't require engine numbers on the previous title and/or registration.

If you're going to stand in line at DMV, well... ok. And if you do, go somewhere waay outside the city so the line is short. (not a guarantee)

In answer to your last question about compliance... short answer, nope. Just bought the bikes and when I got them, started the process. Usually I was late; heck one time 13 months.

Side Note: There is a 'time restriction" for the process to take place. Meaning, if you bring a bike into the state in February with a purchase date of November 2018 they will process it as to when you brought the bike into the state (usually a penalty,it's Californica). But they really don't know, do they...

 

[flathead47]

1. Well... I doubt it seriously unless 'they' changed something in the last 18 months. They didn't flag a 2007 ST3s with a Ducati Performance exhaust.
They didn't flag a 640 KTM A with an aftermarket exhaust. I doubt seriously if their would be a concern.

2. What I witnessed when CHP did the inspection was... they looked at the 'out of state' title and the corresponding numbers on the title and looked for the same on the frame and engine. Some states didn't require engine numbers on the previous title and/or registration.

If you're going to stand in line at DMV, well... ok. And if you do, go somewhere waay outside the city so the line is short. (not a guarantee)

In answer to your last question about compliance... short answer, nope. Just bought the bikes and when I got them, started the process. Usually I was late; heck one time 13 months.

Side Note: There is a 'time restriction" for the process to take place. Meaning, if you bring a bike into the state in February with a purchase date of November 2018 they will process it as to when you brought the bike into the state (usually a penalty,it's Californica). But they really don't know, do they...

Yeah... I've read about that Californica 'time restriction' you mention. Being eager to get a on a bike and ride as soon as possible, that shouldn't be an issue for me.

From all you've described, it doesn't look like there should be any major registration concerns over emissions compliance for out-of-state motorcycles. As for engine numbers, I'm wondering if most bikes are supposed to have matching frame and motor numbers. That would be something I'd ask a seller in order to determine how stock the bike is, and if it's had any major work done over the years where a different engine might have been installed. I'll ask the seller if the curent numbers are on the current title if the state lists them there. I'm not clear on the VIN number. I'd guess on the bike it would be the frame number.

Interesting that r184 said he got his bike registered at AAA by an CA DMV certified AAA examiner. I'll run what you and he have written across an AAA rep when I speak to them. It couldn't hurt to give them a try 1st, as they've always been 10x faster to deal with them CA DMV.

 

[lgb]

Yeah... I've read about that Californica 'time restriction' you mention. Being eager to get a on a bike and ride as soon as possible, that shouldn't be an issue for me.

From all you've described, it doesn't look like there should be any major registration concerns over emissions compliance for out-of-state motorcycles. As for engine numbers, I'm wondering if most bikes are supposed to have matching frame and motor numbers. That would be something I'd ask a seller in order to determine how stock the bike is, and if it's had any major work done over the years where a different engine might have been installed. I'll ask the seller if the curent numbers are on the current title if the state lists them there. I'm not clear on the VIN number. I'd guess on the bike it would be the frame number.

Interesting that r184 said he got his bike registered at AAA by an CA DMV certified AAA examiner. I'll run what you and he have written across an AAA rep when I speak to them. It couldn't hurt to give them a try 1st, as they've always been 10x faster to deal with them CA DMV.

Yep, the AAA are many times faster. And you'd think after 38+ years of paying for it would amount to something... ha.

I'd give AAA the first shot. Heck, they might have all the forms, and can make an appointment with the DMV for you too??

VIN number is usually the frame number. Anyway, that is what I've been told. The frame and engine numbers don't necessarily match. So, I wouldn't worry about that.
The state just wants your money, and as much of it they can squeeze out of you...

 

[flathead47]

VIN number is usually the frame number. Anyway, that is what I've been told. The frame and engine numbers don't necessarily match.

I see Bob Fleischer writes, "Near the end of 1983, with the introduction of the 1984 model year motorcycles, BMW decided to not match up frame and engine numbers." So it will be interesting to see if the '77 model I'm looking at has matching frame and engine numbers. Again, to get a better read on the bike I'm looking at, and not for dealing with CA registration.

 

[flathead47]

Just by chance timing, I've witnessed a few guys at the local DMVs registering their bikes - the only things that were looked at were the frame & engine numbers (if the engine # is not on the title, they may direct you to take a "rubbing" of it by placing a piece of paper over it and lightly sliding a soft pencil on that to take a "fingerprint"), lighting required FOR THAT YEAR of manufacture, reasonable mufflers, and a mirror.

I really doubt that even the "motorcycle specialist" at the DMV office would spot a clean-looking removal of the air injection system that some airheads had, and I've never heard of anybody getting dinged for lacking a carbon canister on their oilheads (including me) (but that WILL get you a "Fail!" on your car). I think (but don't know fer sure) that only a few Arizona counties have a m/c smog inspection.

Thanks Pauls1150. All that seems to confirm what lgb has reported. It looks like registration for an out-of-state bike shouldn't be a problem as far as smog/emissions compliance as long as frame and/or engine numbers in the title all match. I'm just a bit blown away by what all the CA fees and taxes total out to as I posted above.

 

[rick601]

what a frustratingly depressing thread! Good luck to the OP, hopefully the actual experience will be smoother than the anticipated experience...and I thought NY was annoying!

 

[pauls1150]

The inspector might get upset if the muffler doesn't have a factory-impressed "Approved By..." labeling.

Some of those fees look pretty bogus, if that on-line estimator is accurate, and I'd be tempted to challenge them (the gal at the window will give you a dumb look before calling her manager):

CHP fee - never saw that one itemized before; are you a sworn officer using the bike on duty?
Alternate Fuel fee - umm, gasoline? Or is Everybody now being charged because the state's fuel consumption has decreased thanks to hybrids, and they ARE losing gas tax income? That would be believable.
"City vehicle use" - Are you driving for the city, or are they charging another tax to use the streets? I'd question that on redundancy alone; the whole idea of "registration" is to pay for the streets in the first place.
"Non-resident original service fee" - Never saw that one before (including when I first brought in my Sportster, but that was long ago); hey, you live here now, and you're registering here.
"Reflectorized license plate" - ALL plates in this state are now reflective; I've never seen any separate charge for that any time I've originated or renewed a registration, and I've lived here for over 40 years.
"Credit paid to another state" - whaaaaaat?

Just for reference, last time I renewed my bike's registration (04 RT), it cost me $134, a bit more than last year. I have never ever received an itemized list to review before paying it, so maybe those fees are "one-time only"?

DO make an appointment - and NOT for a Monday! Everybody buys & sells vehicles over the weekend, so Monday will be swamped. If time is tight, just walk in early in the morning, and bring a good book...

Last time I renewed my license (a couple of months ago), I made the appointment well in advance; went for the "Real ID" since I travel (and made sure I actually had more "proofs" than what they list as required); I showed up and signed in about 20 minutes early, got called to the window about 5 minutes after the appointed time, filled out a new Real ID application form right there because they couldn't find my initial application in their system (apparently while on-line beforehand, there was another "Save" that I didn't notice) and I was out of there in less than one hour, including a fingerprint (no extra charge noted, part of the $36 total fee) and updated photo. Got it in the mail in three weeks.

Speaking of the DMV, I just have to share this picture from the latest issue of Consumer Reports...

 

[R184]

Interesting to hear AAA processed your bike r184. I'll give AAA a call tomorrow and ask them about all this. As I wrote previously, the bike I'm looking at has an aftermarket Keihan stainless exhaust system. I hope that won't be an issue. I'll see if I can get a call through to DMV too and try to confirm things with them.

They processed the bike the same day I joined. In and out in less than an hour. While I did have all the required paperwork, title/proof of insurance/etc, the bike did not have a NV or any lic. plate. I guess NV required the plate be retained by the seller and turned in to the NV DMV.

 

[lgb]

They processed the bike the same day I joined. In and out in less than an hour. While I did have all the required paperwork, title/proof of insurance/etc, the bike did not have a NV or any lic. plate. I guess NV required the plate be retained by the seller and turned in to the NV DMV.

I want to go to the AAA you used... which location? I went to two different ones, then called the main office and they all told me the same thing... need to go to the DMV.

Also, how long ago?