2013 RT Driveshaft Failure

[hgordee]

Drive shaft failure

Well I can join your exclusive club. I own an 08 RT. I have just experienced my second DSF! Really sucks, I was about 1200 miles from home. I made arrangements to have the bike shipped and expect to have it delivered at home in about 3 weeks. And then I had to fly home. First failure at 57k. Second failure with used parts 65k.
Repair was completed by a BMW certified Master Tech. Waiting to get the bike to tech. Trying to decide if I part it out, repair and ride or repair and trade. Decisions, decisions, decisions. First failure came about 4k miles after I had the bike painted. It was pretty much disassembled and put back together by a non BMW cycle shop. Coincidence?. Tech said everything appeared to be assembled correctly but no oil in final drive. I'm looking for a 0 miles drive shaft

 

[Dann]

Well I can join your exclusive club. I own an 08 RT. I have just experienced my second DSF! Really sucks, I was about 1200 miles from home. I made arrangements to have the bike shipped and expect to have it delivered at home in about 3 weeks. And then I had to fly home. First failure at 57k. Second failure with used parts 65k.
Repair was completed by a BMW certified Master Tech. Waiting to get the bike to tech. Trying to decide if I part it out, repair and ride or repair and trade. Decisions, decisions, decisions. First failure came about 4k miles after I had the bike painted. It was pretty much disassembled and put back together by a non BMW cycle shop. Coincidence?. Tech said everything appeared to be assembled correctly but no oil in final drive. I'm looking for a 0 miles drive shaft

Which parts did you get painted?
Unless you had the FD painted I don't see why anything in the drive train should have been touched at all.

 

[k75s]

I can't believe that BMW owners accept that something like this is acceptable. Sorry, but I'm used to Honda technology that doesn't fail at all.

I used to be, "used to" also...

https://vfrworld.com/threads/7th-gen-driveshaft-recall.49986/

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2015/12/...honda-vfr1200f-recalled-for-driveshaft-issue/

 

[AjaxTheDog]

Pre failure diagnostics

Question: Can you tell if the shaft/yokes are going bad by rotating the wheel while on the center stand and listening to the play in the system? I am thinking I should hear a clunk, clunk, as I experienced when the universals of my front wheel drive went bad.

 

[Realshelby]

Question: Can you tell if the shaft/yokes are going bad by rotating the wheel while on the center stand and listening to the play in the system? I am thinking I should hear a clunk, clunk, as I experienced when the universals of my front wheel drive went bad.

I would leave the bike in gear, then rotate the wheel back and forth. This would be especially helpful if you were to measure how far your rear wheel turns when in first gear. Keep a note on this measurement of back and forth distance. If that starts creeping a bit further, might be a good time to inspect the drive shaft.

I think I will go do that on my RT right now. Could be part of a pre trip check/inspection for longer rides.

 

[henzilla]

Question: Can you tell if the shaft/yokes are going bad by rotating the wheel while on the center stand and listening to the play in the system? I am thinking I should hear a clunk, clunk, as I experienced when the universals of my front wheel drive went bad.

My discovery was turning the wheel in neutral and feeling the joint indexing to a stop every 1/4 turn. It also made a fairly audible click each time it stopped.

I have folks telling me the bike makes all sorts of noise when bike is running in gear while on the center stand...Yes, they do as there is a lot of built in slack in the driveline. I don't use that as any indicator of driveline health. There are times you have to run a bike thru the gears on a centerstand like resetting values with a GS911, however, doing it for any other reason is just going to cause unneeded worry typically.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

I would leave the bike in gear, then rotate the wheel back and forth. This would be especially helpful if you were to measure how far your rear wheel turns when in first gear. Keep a note on this measurement of back and forth distance. If that starts creeping a bit further, might be a good time to inspect the drive shaft.

I think I will go do that on my RT right now. Could be part of a pre trip check/inspection for longer rides.

Help me out here if you will. What are you thinking might be indicated if you noticed a measurable difference in rear wheel rotation? It should be easy to get an accurate measurement so could be quite sensitive a screening test but as I say I'm not sure what it might indicate.

 

[PGlaves]

Help me out here if you will. What are you thinking might be indicated if you noticed a measurable difference in rear wheel rotation? It should be easy to get an accurate measurement so could be quite sensitive a screening test but as I say I'm not sure what it might indicate.

There is slight play in the clutch spline, and the transmission gearset, and the driveshaft splines and in the ring/pinion gearset. There should not be play or slack in universal joints. An increase in tire rotation done under identical condition indicates wear. But at what location becomes a guess.

 

[henzilla]

There is slight play in the clutch spline, and the transmission gearset, and the driveshaft splines and in the ring/pinion gearset. There should not be play or slack in universal joints. An increase in tire rotation done under identical condition indicates wear. But at what location becomes a guess.

Is that checked at ambient tire temps

 

[PGlaves]

is that checked at ambient tire temps

20c

 

[Realshelby]

Help me out here if you will. What are you thinking might be indicated if you noticed a measurable difference in rear wheel rotation? It should be easy to get an accurate measurement so could be quite sensitive a screening test but as I say I'm not sure what it might indicate.

I don't exactly have a written action report on it. Yet. But it should be a way to test for excessive slack/play in the drivetrain. Here is what I did. Bike on center stand, put in first gear. Rolled rear tire forward till it stopped. Took a small level and place it against the bottom of the driveshaft housing. Made it level and the end way midway of the sidewall of the tire. Marked that spot with a ball point pen. Then rotated the tire the opposite direction. Made the same mark using the level as above. Then put the bike in neutral and rotated the wheel to where I could see the marks easily. These marks are on the widest part of the tire where the tread meets the sidewall. My RT-LC has exactly 1 3/4" of free travel in it at 32,000 miles. This value really shouldn't change much from typical spline wear, especially if one were to remove the shaft and grease the splines. Should there be an increase, to me that is a reason to drop the shaft out and inspect it. Long before the u-joint gets in the shape we have seen in the failure pictures there will be signs of failure. Usually some red dust in the seal area(s). Is this a foolproof method to eliminate the u-joint failures? No, but it could catch them if the owner would do this at each service. Especially before a big trip.

Maybe some others could measure and post their results? Might be interesting to compare.

 

[roamingbeemer]

I have 23000 miles on a Camhead GSA.
I ride it off road and thru alot of water. Zero issues but after reading this forum I drop the FD every year to lube the splines and to apply anti corrsion to the metal parts. I am certain I have seen water sitting inside the FD when I have opened it -even with a properly seated and lubed boot.
I also run some FD oil into the outside of the bearings to prevent corrsion.

I have done the same thing to my K1300GT but not every year like the GS. Only 17000 miles in it.

 

[PGlaves]

I have 23000 miles on a Camhead GSA.
I ride it off road and thru alot of water. Zero issues but after reading this forum I drop the FD every year to lube the splines and to apply anti corrsion to the metal parts. I am certain I have seen water sitting inside the FD when I have opened it -even with a properly seated and lubed boot.
I also run some FD oil into the outside of the bearings to prevent corrsion.

I have done the same thing to my K1300GT but not every year like the GS. Only 17000 miles in it.

Question: water inside the final drive or inside the swingarm/driveshaft housing??

 

[AjaxTheDog]

Water

Question: water inside the final drive or inside the swingarm/driveshaft housing??

I think Paul Glaves is on the right track. I think the failure here is not anything to do with the splines but only the universals. I doubt the splines could fail before the universals. The splines slide on each other but are in constant contact while the universals rotate, much more friction and chance of failure. That said universals are pretty robust unless they lose their grease, usually from water or the elements getting in through a rubber seal failure. I have never had a universal fail in any car except for the one that was exposed to the elements through the damaged rubber boot. All cars have these on their drive shafts, so it is a super common and inexpensive part. My car's failure was also most obvious when they were at their maximum angle, when I turned the wheel full lock I could hear a clunking, but much less so when going straight. This extreme would be similar to the bike on its center stand, with the drive shaft at its maximum lowest angle while the rear wheel hangs in the air. If you don't hear anything clunking when turning the rear wheel then you are probably OK.

I have 70K miles on my 2012 RT and a failure like this scares the bejesus out of me. Should it ever happen in thick traffic it could be terminal. I had 65 K miles on an earlier RT and never had a problem, but I live in a dry climate.

I suspect these failure are mostly due to water getting into the rear section either via rain through a bad seal or a pressure washer, or maybe even a strong hose. A bike that is 5 years old is too new for the rubber seals to leak or rot, and as long as they are intact their grease should stay in place and the bearings should be OK.

I used a pressure washer once on a dirt bike and the water went past the seals, into the bearings, and rusted them over the next two weeks that I let the bike sit. I learned my lesson. I am curious to know if those with failed shafts used a pressure washer on their bike or live in a very wet climate.

 

[Dann]

No pressure washer for me but I sometimes ride in the rain.

I grease my spline every year when I do my FD maintenance.

I didn't see it coming... (Could be my lack of experience...)

I've never seen anyone do it in any of the FD maintenance videos but when I replaced my drive shaft I noticed that the RepROM mentions that Staburags NBU 30 PTM grease needs to be applied to the mating faces of the rubber boots.

That must help to keep water from getting in there

 

[roamingbeemer]

Question: water inside the final drive or inside the swingarm/driveshaft housing??

Water inside the housing. Small drops sitting on the bottom when the FD swung free from the splines. I was too quick cleaning them up and realized I should have looked closer. I had been thru some rough water crossings so I thought maybe some water got in as the boot was flexing. The ESA was in the highest off road setting.
I am very careful to make certain the clips are snapped into place when closing the FD.
Any moisture inside the housing will accelerate corrosion.