2009 R1200RT Electrical Issue

[pcatalan]

Having a really odd problem, and it's costing me money.

I was on a day ride a few months back, and about 2 hours into the ride, I had an electrical issue that caused both headlights to blow, and the ABS and ESC lights came on solid, and both aux power sockets to turn off.

The bike kept running and there was no indication that anything had gone amiss except I had no more audio in my helmet because my Autocomm is connected to the rear aux socket. When I looked at the dash and noticed that the ABS and ESC lights were on (solid, not flashing) I pulled over to the side of the highway and shut off the power. I waited a minute and started the bike again, and all was fine except I had no more headlights as they were blown, and the ABS and ESC lights were flashing as normal, and turned off once I was rolling.

My first instinct was to replace both the H7 bulbs, which I did and parked the bike.

A week later I took the bike out for another ride of about 30 minutes this time, and all was fine at first, and I rode to my dealer to tell the service manager what had happened and see if he knew what it might have been.

He hadn't heard of anything like that before and after about 20 minutes of chatting, I got back on my bike and started it up. Within 5 seconds of starting the bike, both headlights had blown and the ABS and ESC light were on solid, and my autocomm was off again. I hadn't even moved the bike yet.

The dealer took the bike into the shop and hooked it up to the diagnostic computer which had logged a low voltage issue. That wouldn't explain all the failures simultaniously.

I got the bike back from the dealer a week later and he told me they could not replicate the problem.

I rode it home without issue and parked it. The weather turned bad and I about a month, I finally got the bike out again last weekend. About 30 minutes into my ride, no headlights, and ABS and ESC lights on solid. Pulled over, and turned bike off, then back on, and rode with my high beam on for the rest of the day and dropped it off at the dealer again.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience, and any ideas what might be causing this? What could cause all these failures simultaniously?

The dealer has the bike and I told them I want this problem gone before I get the bike back, and I am NOT paying for more bulbs!

Any ideas that I can forward to my dealer would be appreciated.

FYI, I have had the Autocomm installed on the bike for about a year without any issues, so I don't think that's the issue.
I also have a Gerbing heated liner, and Zumo 550 connected directly to the battery. I also use a battery tender while the bike is parked to prolong the battery life. Bike has always started first time.

Thanks,
Pedro.

 

[AZ-J]

My F800S used to shut off, and lock the rear wheel. On the fourth or fifth time, I had it towed over 100 miles since it did that, that trip 3 times.

On the 20th day in the shop after the shop couldn't reproduce it, I said dyno it an hour of so, then blip the throttle. The bike died and locked the rear wheel. By the 30th day in shop the bike was an official under AZ's uniform lemon law. BMW NA bought the 2007 F800S back under favorable terms, and I bought an R1200S. It has not been in the shop for a repair, only maintenance.

See what your lemon law is, and start off by writing to BMW NA in Woodcliff Lake, NY, ASAP! If they can't fix it, cash it out and get another same or not bike.

 

[racer7]

Your first problem is that most techs these days are no good at reading wiring diagrams and troubleshooting electrics.

Likely it is time to insist your dealer call factory guys for advice and to request to participate in that conversation so you aren't caught in acontinuing string of worthless dealer visits.

This has all the symptoms of an intermittent short. It is also possible that the ZFE itself has failed though there don't seem to be many (any?) other reported cases. But I have seen the equivalent part on German cars fail and periodically wipe out connected items until it was replaced. Not a cheap part so your dealer won't have one handy for "plug and pray"

 

[racer7]

Do verify your bulbs are really blown and that its not an intermittent ground. A fried bulb with busted filament is pretty obvious but if not certain you can reinstall a suspect or check it with a VOM.

At least you won't be one the guys who can't change a headlight bulb on these, with all the practice you're getting.

 

[deilenberger]

Several things come to mind..

1 - Getting the factory involved is a good idea. Most techs are not that good with electronics, and the CANBUS controlled bikes are a real mystery to many.

2 - It would be interesting to know what besides the headlights are on that circuit. My thought is - if a short circuit happens, the ZFE turns the circuit off, and it won't turn it back on again until you cycle the ignition and it finds no short. Dunno if the ABS/DSC controller has power on the same circuit as is used for headlight control.

3 - You DO want to know that the bulbs are dead. That's a big clue. As Racer7 suggests - use of an Ohmmeter would be a good thing (unless they are obviously burned out - like black and ugly inside.)

4 - If they are burned out, about the only thing that would cause this consistantly is an overvoltage condition (not the low-voltage that was logged). That knowledge combined with the low-voltage fault recorded would make me look at the voltage regulator on the alternator.

QUESTION - how is your Autocom wired in? I believe is saw that it's connected to the rear auxiliary socket (the one for plugging accessories into the bike?) Just wanted to make sure power wasn't being taken off the diagnostics connector as some people do..

 

[nplenzick]

The Battery Tender that your using is it the one for the BMW battery?

 

[53133]

Another electrical oddity along those same lines ... after 5000 trouble-free miles on my 09RT, I left for a day ride, got about 5 miles from home and pulled over due to a very strong electrical overload/short or burning smell. Taking the seat off, I could detect the odor, but not identify its source.

I have a Centech AP-2 triggered by the rear aux socket with Autocom, Zumo 660, Moto-lites, and hook up for Gerbing jackets connected, and use the BMW charger when the bike is at rest at home. Oh yes, I also have HIDs installed in the low beams. I have not had any issue with the bike in the first 5000 miles other than an extremely intermittent drop of the right front HID, which comes on again when the bike is re-started.

I rode the bike the 5 miles home and the odor was still there but less intense. I checked all connections, disconnected the Centech (with all accessories) and test rode it again and no odor appeared. I re-connected the Ccentech, installed the fuses one by one with test rides in between and the odor never re-appeared, No faults ever appeared on the display.

It's a long walk from most roads in the Sierra should a vehicle quit on the road and a long tow to a dealer so yes, I'm anxious about the next ride, but I may have to wait until the spring to test again. I'll ride it to a dealer for the 6,000 mile service and see what happens should the odor appear again.

Stan
Lake Tahoe, CA
09R1200RT

 

[mneblett]

Another electrical oddity along those same lines ... after 5000 trouble-free miles on my 09RT, I left for a day ride, got about 5 miles from home and pulled over due to a very strong electrical overload/short or burning smell. Taking the seat off, I could detect the odor, but not identify its source.

[[snippage]] I have not had any issue with the bike in the first 5000 miles other than an extremely intermittent drop of the right front HID, which comes on again when the bike is re-started.

These two together would make me immediately pull the tupperware and hand-over-hand check the wiring for the HIDs (as well as any other wires you have installed and/or modified). Sounds like a pretty straight-forward short to ground -- the hard part is locating it (duh). Removing plastic (including the tank, if necessary) is the only good way to find out.

Oh, and there's no way I'd ride the bike to the grocery store, let alone the Sierras, until I knew *exactly* what the cause is. Shorts = heat = fire. Not something to "hope" wasn't really a problem and made itself go away.

 

[racer7]

53133
Agree with mneblett- stuff like that may indeed lead to a fire especially if the smell problem is really electrical. Remember your bike has a plastic fuel tank and plenty of magnesium bits- there might be nothing left if one starts.

There is no good way to put HIDs in an RT - all need hacking into factory wiring in places and ways where if done carelessly, mechanical damage to the wiring or shorts are possible. The hi voltages connections at the rear of the HID capsule are open because you have to remove or drill the sealing cover behind the bulb, the hi voltage leads need to be coiled and tied carefully out of the way and the 12 connections with a kit need to be shortened to length, tied into the headlight wiring and routed carefully. (I hope you didn't try to shorten or alter the high voltage lead- most do not have a proper way to do this). Note that the hi voltage connection at the rear of the bulb is one possible source that is easy to check. Wires carrying that kind of voltage can easily arc to nearby metals or wires, especially if damp.

Your HID is going out because the ZFE (acting as an auto reset fuse) sees it drawing too much current and cuts it off until the bike is restarted. Go over its wiring carefully. If you find nothing, it may be that the junk Chinese ballast needs replacement. Its generally as cheap to buy a new kit as to buy parts.

Because you don't report any odd electrical problems with the other issue associated with the smell, I find myself wondering about two things
1) Could you have just smoked the clutch a little? (Its easy to do if you're fairly new to an RT, are on steep terrain, or its the first time you've broken out heavier gloves for cool weather) Are you sure the smell was electrical and not clutch- they are quite different and easily identified if you know the difference. RT clutches are also more prone to smoking when very new- they need a little use break in but that's normally only a few hundred miles, not thousands.
2) The Centech circuit board is open underneath. Check for any signs of heat damage on wires near it. You can't fry insulation without visible evidence being left.

 

[pcatalan]

Do verify your bulbs are really blown and that its not an intermittent ground. A fried bulb with busted filament is pretty obvious but if not certain you can reinstall a suspect or check it with a VOM.

At least you won't be one the guys who can't change a headlight bulb on these, with all the practice you're getting.

Bulbs definitely destroyed. Blown fillament, lots of carbon powder on the glass. Both good indicators.

 

[53133]

Hey, thanks Mark and racer7 for the insights. Tupperware is coming off next week (assuming the skiing remains lousy due to warm rain in our Sierras) to "hand over hand" and see what I can find. On the intermittent HID, I did switch bulbs and the situation still occurs albeit very rarely, so the ballast must be the culprit.

I'll report when I find something. Thanks again!!!

Stan
Lake Tahoe, CA

 

[deilenberger]

Bulbs definitely destroyed. Blown fillament, lots of carbon powder on the glass. Both good indicators.

To me - that points to the voltage regulator in the alternator. There is no other magic on the bike that would boost system voltage to the point where it could blow out bulbs.

 

[mpmarty]

OK I'm totally confused (not uncommon).
You say that you have HID replacements for your low beams. Then you say in looking at the bulbs the filaments are blown up and the capsule is full of carbon. HID bulbs have no filaments. What's going on?

 

[hjsbmw]

To me - that points to the voltage regulator in the alternator. There is no other magic on the bike that would boost system voltage to the point where it could blow out bulbs.

A short in the right (or wrong, depending how you look at it) place will have the same effect. Too much voltage can blow a bulb, but so can too much current.

 

[kthutchinson]

OK I'm totally confused (not uncommon).
You say that you have HID replacements for your low beams. Then you say in looking at the bulbs the filaments are blown up and the capsule is full of carbon. HID bulbs have no filaments. What's going on?

Two different posters. 53133 has HIDs; pcatalan has blown H7s.

 

[deilenberger]

A short in the right (or wrong, depending how you look at it) place will have the same effect. Too much voltage can blow a bulb, but so can too much current.

How exactly would that happen?

The ZFE doesn't control the current draw (aside from it cutting it off if it sees really excessive draw - ie - a short circuit..) - If you hook the same bulb up across the battery - it will light up just fine, and draw the current calculated by Ohms law. The battery is capable of supplying lots of current, way more then the bulb will draw.

The reason for the bulb blowing when the voltage exceeds the correct value IS excessive current - but that current happens because of Ohms law.. without the increase in voltage, the current draw of the bulb will remain the same.

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslawcalculators.asp <-- a very useful website for calculating the size of the fuses you should be installing in your auxiliary circuits..

 

[hjsbmw]

http://www.the12volt.com/ohm/ohmslaw.asp

If you have two resistors in series you get a current V / (R1 + R2). If you shorten out one of the resistors you get a higher current. If the remaining resistor is a bulb it has now the same voltage but more electrons flowing to it.

 

[pcatalan]

The Battery Tender that your using is it the one for the BMW battery?

I use a Deltran Battery Tender 800 Waterproof model.

 

[pcatalan]

OK I'm totally confused (not uncommon).
You say that you have HID replacements for your low beams. Then you say in looking at the bulbs the filaments are blown up and the capsule is full of carbon. HID bulbs have no filaments. What's going on?

I am the OP. I do not have HID bulbs. That was a problem being described by a different poster.

I also get confused easily.

 

[deilenberger]

If you have two resistors in series you get a current V / (R1 + R2). If you shorten out one of the resistors you get a higher current. If the remaining resistor is a bulb it has now the same voltage but more electrons flowing to it.

BUT - the bulbs aren't connected with a resistor. They are rated for 12.6V (ie - battery voltage). I still fail to see any way this could happen.