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rbleau
Guest
Any quick tips for a neutral light always on ? The brightness changes a bit when actually in neutral. On a 1977R100S. thanks in advance / RB
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AntonLargiader
Active member
On some early bikes (I forget which ones) you need to use two of the washers to make the switch work right. It is a NC switch that opens by extending into a recess in the 3-4 shift cam. In your case it isn't able to extend far enough to open. Try a second washer under it.
Or maybe it's something else entirely.
Or maybe it's something else entirely.
R
rbleau
Guest
Thanks
Thanks 20774 and Anton / will troubleshoot tomorrow - it is rest time for me.
Thanks 20774 and Anton / will troubleshoot tomorrow - it is rest time for me.
AntonLargiader
Active member
Oops, I think I got it wrong. If it's the new style switch it is NC and opens by being pushed in (everywhere except neutral). The second washer isn't for that issue because obviously it would need to be pushed in more in your case.
The older switch (used up to '76) was NO and was closed by being pushed in at neutral. That sometimes needed the double washer because it was being pushed in too much of the time.
Pics on my website roughly in the middle of this page:
http://www.largiader.com/tech/airtrans/
But your bike should have the newer switch. So if there's a second washer, get rid of it. If there's only one, I'd just buy a new switch and washer. And if the light stays on when you unplug the switch, it's a problem in the wiring.
The older switch (used up to '76) was NO and was closed by being pushed in at neutral. That sometimes needed the double washer because it was being pushed in too much of the time.
Pics on my website roughly in the middle of this page:
http://www.largiader.com/tech/airtrans/
But your bike should have the newer switch. So if there's a second washer, get rid of it. If there's only one, I'd just buy a new switch and washer. And if the light stays on when you unplug the switch, it's a problem in the wiring.
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rbleau
Guest
Unplugged
I unplugged the connector located near the left footpeg and the neutral light remained on.
So, the circuit should be "open" now. If the normal action of the neutral switch sensor is to supply a closed circuit in order to illuminate the neutral light, then indeed I have a pinch or short somewhere.
Or vice versa.
I unplugged the connector located near the left footpeg and the neutral light remained on.
So, the circuit should be "open" now. If the normal action of the neutral switch sensor is to supply a closed circuit in order to illuminate the neutral light, then indeed I have a pinch or short somewhere.
Or vice versa.
Attachments
R
rbleau
Guest
Short two-wire harness
Mine has a short, less than 1 ft, little two-wire harness encased in black protective plastic or rubber; one end is to the two electrical push on connectors on the neutral sensor on the bottom of the trans; the other end has a rectangular connector that plugs into the larger harness on the lower frame rails. The oil pressure sensor wire is entirely separate. Or so it would appear - I just went out and crawled under the two wheeled vehicle again.
I am inferring from Anton's web writeup that regardless of either switch style, a switch continuity closure is made when the trans is in neutral. Here is the web page comment:
In 1976 the neutral switch was changed. Up through 1975 the switch was pushed in to make the neutral contact, and starting in 1976 the switch extended to make contact.
Mine has a short, less than 1 ft, little two-wire harness encased in black protective plastic or rubber; one end is to the two electrical push on connectors on the neutral sensor on the bottom of the trans; the other end has a rectangular connector that plugs into the larger harness on the lower frame rails. The oil pressure sensor wire is entirely separate. Or so it would appear - I just went out and crawled under the two wheeled vehicle again.
I am inferring from Anton's web writeup that regardless of either switch style, a switch continuity closure is made when the trans is in neutral. Here is the web page comment:
In 1976 the neutral switch was changed. Up through 1975 the switch was pushed in to make the neutral contact, and starting in 1976 the switch extended to make contact.
R
rbleau
Guest
Back to this task - 1977 R100S
OK, after a break, I started troubleshooting again. Turns out that the clutch safety interlock plunger switch was coiled and stuffed above the engine. Interestingly, when I depressed the plunger, simulating clutch engaged, the neutral light went out, and I doubt the clutch switch should interact with the neutral light (?), per wiring diagram. There is a diode between each side of 85b in the schematic. Inside the headlight looks normal - two brn/yel on 85b, then to the left (right side of headlight) one brn/blk wire.
Also interesting - good thing I had not hit the starter button in gear with clutch engaged - could have been exciting.
Always intersted in any suggestions of where to look next. Looks like the prev owner was messing around a bit, eh ? This is a bike I bought in January.
OK, after a break, I started troubleshooting again. Turns out that the clutch safety interlock plunger switch was coiled and stuffed above the engine. Interestingly, when I depressed the plunger, simulating clutch engaged, the neutral light went out, and I doubt the clutch switch should interact with the neutral light (?), per wiring diagram. There is a diode between each side of 85b in the schematic. Inside the headlight looks normal - two brn/yel on 85b, then to the left (right side of headlight) one brn/blk wire.
Also interesting - good thing I had not hit the starter button in gear with clutch engaged - could have been exciting.
Always intersted in any suggestions of where to look next. Looks like the prev owner was messing around a bit, eh ? This is a bike I bought in January.
Attachments
Last edited:
It sounds like you have the "classic" shorted neutral/clutch switch diode. This diode is on the back side of the cicuit board in the headlight. An easy fix is to remove the associated wires from the board and connect them with the diode from a hazard warning (4-way flashers) light kit. A harder but more elegant solution is to remove the board and solder in a new diode.
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rbleau
Guest
Resolution and Closure
OK, well here is the deal. The prev owner, either by himself or maybe not, had replaced the transmission neutral switch with the incorrect or "backwards" switch, then had disabled the clutch interlock as a means of starting in actual neutral. The transmission has been pulled, switch replaced and verified, and while in there, R&R rear main seal, replaced clutch diaphragm spring, oil pump seal, spline lube & cleanup. Bike all back togetehr and neutral light works as it is supposed to. I assisted/ performed tasks that did not require special skills or tools, but the serious work was done by a professional. End of story.
OK, well here is the deal. The prev owner, either by himself or maybe not, had replaced the transmission neutral switch with the incorrect or "backwards" switch, then had disabled the clutch interlock as a means of starting in actual neutral. The transmission has been pulled, switch replaced and verified, and while in there, R&R rear main seal, replaced clutch diaphragm spring, oil pump seal, spline lube & cleanup. Bike all back togetehr and neutral light works as it is supposed to. I assisted/ performed tasks that did not require special skills or tools, but the serious work was done by a professional. End of story.
