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What does the looming ICE ban mean for BMW motorcycles?
- Thread starter oldcamper
- Start date
gregfeeler
Dances With Sheep
Well said, Reece, and logical. We can have that steak dinner together, but I won't take your bet.
gregfeeler
Dances With Sheep
Why would you say that?
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
Because it's common in forums having adopted best practices? Because it discourages abuse by those who wield power? Because mods may not apply the rules fairly to themselves? Because it makes perfect sense?
kbasa
Well-known member
That's not what's been proposed at all, is it?
kbasa
Well-known member
The California EV swap is in 2035 and, at that point, it's only affecting light trucks and cars. It doesn't affect any of the stuff Reece put up on his lengthy list.
But, of course, let's keep rolling with all the hysteria, cynicism and misinformation if it gets your amygdala properly fired up for some angertainment.
Here. Read something. Alleviate some of the abject and seemingly intentional ignorance that's living in this thread. https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/california-moves-accelerate-100-new-zero-emission-vehicle-sales-2035
Or, you know, we can keep having a conversation based on BS people have brought here that simply isn't true.
Reece's assertion that all those things on his list are going to be banned is ridiculous and completely false.
I still see people thinking that they're going to pay for all this. Unless someone here's making $400k/year, you're not going to see any increase in your taxation. But you all know this, right? Or are you just spouting all the fear being fed to you by Rupert Murdoch?
WRT to too many people, well y'all keep making them and they're gonna have to live somewhere, eh? And they're gonna make some more, so they're gonna have to live somewhere, too. Don't look at me. We didn't have any.
kbasa
Well-known member
Well said, Reece, and logical. We can have that steak dinner together, but I won't take your bet.
Except that's not what's been proposed at all is it? Reece's statements are categorically false from top to bottom regarding what's affected
- Incorrect/inaccurate statement 1: The 2030 ban. The California ban is 2035 as is the US ban. 2030 is incorrect.
- Incorrect/inaccurate statement 2: Vehicles beyond cars and light trucks (GVW<8500 pounds) will be banned in 2030, including aircraft, semis etc. Legislation only affects cars and light trucks. No motorcycles, semi trucks, tractors, airplanes or anything else.
We'll have a better conversation here if people show up with true statements. As I said earlier here, y'all have some major gaps in your knowledge and understanding of what's going on and as a result it feels like there's a lot of fear based statements that just aren't true.
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
kbasa
Well-known member
That'd be great. All in. Fission leaves a hell of a mess behind.
But I'd rather not pay people for my electricity, so I'm gonna make it on my roof or out in the backyard. PG&E is happy to send me a bill every month for the price of a new bike payment for gas and electricity.
If you can make your own power for way less, why would you buy power at all? In 5 years, it'll be paid for and I've got, at minimum, 15 years of literally free electricity generation.
So, sure. Fission for folks that can't generate their own. But for anyone with a roof, make your own and never pay a gas or electric bill again.
No "delivery" charge to support the infrastructure/transmission lines in CA?
This is kind of dizzying - https://www.pge.com/en_US/residenti...inimum-bill-charges/minimum-bill-charges.page
OM
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
If only that were true. IMHO you just did what you accused others of doing.
kbasa
Well-known member
There's still a lot of argument about this. Under Title 24, no grid ties are expressly identified and allowed, but the power companies want to get their money, so they're trying to get NEM 3.0 in place to require a meter. Is it settled? I believe 12/15/22 is when we'll get a decision. To me, PG&E can f off and die. 5000 homes burned to the ground in Santa Rosa. Paradise completely flattened. Other first this year were also precipitated by equipment failure on long distance, high voltage transmission lines. Why are we adhering to this model when we can generate power locally and not have to worry about burning half the state town because of single digit humidity and high winds?
I think the two laws are in conflict with each other. I have a friend with a solar array in Placerville and while he's grid tied, he's still generating more electricity than he's using and his bills are negative numbers. PG&E owes him money and they owe him a little more every month.
I think his total spend to install all his capacity, including enough capacity to heat his pool, run the house and install a new roof, storage and inverter, was right about $30K. He's got enough power on board to run his house for two days on the batteries, even if the sun somehow didn't come up both days. He got federal financing on it, which is super cheap and he got ridiculous credits on his equipment purchases.
He's a few miles outside of town, so instead of driving his F250 down there to buy groceries, he's going to get a cheap used EV and get rid of most of his gasoline expenditures. He's already ditched all his gas powered lawn and yard equipment, with the exception of one of his big chain saws.
Why not? Stop paying for gas.
kbasa
Well-known member
How so? My neighbors - 25% of the houses on my street - are all making their own juice and not paying PG&E. 3 out of those 4 houses are juicing up their Teslas, Bolt, Hyundai EV, PHEV Rav4 and VW id.4 off their roof.
What am I missing?
I don't think most can go without the available back up provided by gas at the street and public electricity at the meter. I'm pretty sure a metering system is necessary if there are connections to the grid.
Federal funding? Tax credits? If this is the only way this deal is cost effective, the government supporting homeowners projects, I would like to see the actual cost analysis numbers.
Hopefully he gets squared away with PG&E.
As for the 30K investment, that figure is about 23 years of my utility bill.
Hope it works out- long term.
OM
mikegalbicka
Back in the saddle again
Simple. We all aren’t your neighbors.
As I explained here it doesn’t work the same for my neighborhood
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthrea...-motorcycles&p=1293468&viewfull=1#post1293468
rangerreece
RangerReece
Dave: So not taking the bet? I’m good for it, trust me. But it sounds like the bet is moot because the “title” of this thread is inaccurate, an ICE ban means all ICE, not partial ICE. (English language).
Based on your clarification of the actual proposal, I can see it’s simply a transfer of power and capability to those in charge… elitism. And yes… I’ve seen what happens to nations when those in power have all the power (up close and personal). Clearly, you’re in one camp and I’m in the other on this issue, but please don’t call me and others ignorant, because our actual experience is different from yours. Let’s be as tolerant as we claim we are.
Based on your clarification of the actual proposal, I can see it’s simply a transfer of power and capability to those in charge… elitism. And yes… I’ve seen what happens to nations when those in power have all the power (up close and personal). Clearly, you’re in one camp and I’m in the other on this issue, but please don’t call me and others ignorant, because our actual experience is different from yours. Let’s be as tolerant as we claim we are.
rangerreece
RangerReece
What free electricity looks like in a one party state.
Ever fly over a city and watch every light in the entire city go out because someone in power flipped a switch?
Yeah… that could never happen here.
Ever fly over a city and watch every light in the entire city go out because someone in power flipped a switch?
Yeah… that could never happen here.
RadioFlyer
Right2Repair
Sophistry.
The title of the thread clearly does NOT apply to all vehicles nor is it inaccurate. It asks the question about the impact of the ICE ban (whether full or partial) on BMW motorcycles.
Also the OP clearly posed the question:
"Do the new laws allow for exemptions like trucks, trains, construction, farming, or recreational vehicles?"
Which establishes beyond all doubt that the intent of the thread title is not to include all vehicles but rather to seek clarification on that very point.
The title of the thread clearly does NOT apply to all vehicles nor is it inaccurate. It asks the question about the impact of the ICE ban (whether full or partial) on BMW motorcycles.
Also the OP clearly posed the question:
"Do the new laws allow for exemptions like trucks, trains, construction, farming, or recreational vehicles?"
Which establishes beyond all doubt that the intent of the thread title is not to include all vehicles but rather to seek clarification on that very point.
rangerreece
RangerReece
Well said, Reece, and logical. We can have that steak dinner together, but I won't take your bet.
Dinner’s on me at the rally, let’s link up and talk shop, I’m sure there’s a restaurant in Virginia that serves a decent steak.
c'mon man
Reading about all the ICE hopes for 2035 in USA and Europe appear to be hopeful, but all it is , is that. Great comments and stats from all points, just as good as watching football and just as accurate. The major problem as I see it , comes down to one word, " LOGISTICS ". To meet that goal the US and Europe couldn't mine and refine the materials needed to do it , let alone to manufacture it, and the major manufacturers already know this. The only reason Europe has a shot at this, is that they have at least 10 times the infrastructure in place , than the US to doit.Anyone can stand in their neighbor hood and say "hey joe and Bill can do it why can't I. But when you walk to the end of the street and go over another block you have to wonder. If you look at ICE as a chain and you start to add the links and how you are going to attach to the global ship, it becomes a different reality. I've worked in commercial and residential construction for 30 years. Have seen great strides in energy saving and production, been involved in the latest and greatest, but IMO they still haven't jumped that hurdle of logistics. What works in Disney Land, almost always doesn't work in all the other lands. I was going to go in length about logistics in further detail, but I believe that most of you already know what I mean, and understand it.
Great pic Reese, thought at first it was Chinatown in the Bronx.
Reading about all the ICE hopes for 2035 in USA and Europe appear to be hopeful, but all it is , is that. Great comments and stats from all points, just as good as watching football and just as accurate. The major problem as I see it , comes down to one word, " LOGISTICS ". To meet that goal the US and Europe couldn't mine and refine the materials needed to do it , let alone to manufacture it, and the major manufacturers already know this. The only reason Europe has a shot at this, is that they have at least 10 times the infrastructure in place , than the US to doit.Anyone can stand in their neighbor hood and say "hey joe and Bill can do it why can't I. But when you walk to the end of the street and go over another block you have to wonder. If you look at ICE as a chain and you start to add the links and how you are going to attach to the global ship, it becomes a different reality. I've worked in commercial and residential construction for 30 years. Have seen great strides in energy saving and production, been involved in the latest and greatest, but IMO they still haven't jumped that hurdle of logistics. What works in Disney Land, almost always doesn't work in all the other lands. I was going to go in length about logistics in further detail, but I believe that most of you already know what I mean, and understand it.
Great pic Reese, thought at first it was Chinatown in the Bronx.
