weird downshifting on k75 makes me paranoid...

[barooo]

I have a 1987 K75T.

On a ride yesterday, I noticed something about the downshifting... I've been fighting with it a bit in city traffic, I have a habit of downshifting to first early on stops becuase the yamaha I used to ride seemed to do best that way, and this bike does not like that one bit, it rattles and grinds if I go into first above about 10 mph, so I've been trying to downshift later, not clicking into first until I'm only going about 5mph or so or even almost as I come to a stop

And I noticed that the shift lever takes more pressure than I'd expect downshifting this way, especially 4->3. If I make that downshift to accelerate, or to slow in traffic but not stop it seems okay, but if I wait a bit longer as I'm coming to a stop, it's a little hard to disengage from 4th. It slips into 3rd easily. 3->2 is similar but not as bad. 5->4 seems to be okay but I was only in 5th briefly since I wasn't on the highway much. Again, there's no clanking or grinding or diffulty engaging, just a bit of resistance in disengaging.

I remember that hard downshifting is a sign of spline problems, but this bike was lubed about 2500 miles ago with honda moly 60 by someone on this forum that seems to know what they're doing (that may be an understatement, it was buddingGeezer down in AR), and it's about 4-8K over being a multiple of 16K so I don't suspect the misalignment problem. They reported that the splines looked like new. Just want to make sure this isn't a sign of trouble, I have some other jobs to do on the bike this winter (forks and possibly front brakes), but I'd rather not tear into the splines unless it's warranted.

 

[Zagando]

Were the clutch splines lubed as well as the rear drive splines? I think those are the ones critical to good shifting...

 

[BUDDINGGEEZER]

I have a 1987 K75T.

On a ride yesterday, I noticed something about the downshifting... I've been fighting with it a bit in city traffic, I have a habit of downshifting to first early on stops becuase the yamaha I used to ride seemed to do best that way, and this bike does not like that one bit, it rattles and grinds if I go into first above about 10 mph, so I've been trying to downshift later, not clicking into first until I'm only going about 5mph or so or even almost as I come to a stop

And I noticed that the shift lever takes more pressure than I'd expect downshifting this way, especially 4->3. If I make that downshift to accelerate, or to slow in traffic but not stop it seems okay, but if I wait a bit longer as I'm coming to a stop, it's a little hard to disengage from 4th. It slips into 3rd easily. 3->2 is similar but not as bad. 5->4 seems to be okay but I was only in 5th briefly since I wasn't on the highway much. Again, there's no clanking or grinding or diffulty engaging, just a bit of resistance in disengaging.

I remember that hard downshifting is a sign of spline problems, but this bike was lubed about 2500 miles ago with honda moly 60 by someone on this forum that seems to know what they're doing (that may be an understatement, it was buddingGeezer down in AR), and it's about 4-8K over being a multiple of 16K so I don't suspect the misalignment problem. They reported that the splines looked like new. Just want to make sure this isn't a sign of trouble, I have some other jobs to do on the bike this winter (forks and possibly front brakes), but I'd rather not tear into the splines unless it's warranted.

This is BuddingGeezer down in Arkansas and yes I lubed the clutch splines with Honda Moly 60 and they were in excellent shape, and yes, I know what I'm doing. The BMW tranny is not a Yamaha and probably doesn't what to go into 1st gear above 10 mph. I can't remember my if my K100 would or not. I usually don't downshift to 1st above 10mph. I bought the bike in question to sell and put around 100 miles on it and it shifted like a BMW (clunky). Others may can tell you more about the 1st gear down shift.

One thing to check is the clutch arm boot. If it is torn water can get into the transmission. I had a torn boot on my K100LT and rode around 400 miles in the rain on a trip. Before I got home I could not downshift without stomping the shift pedal. This puzzled me as I had done a clutch spline lube before the trip. I tore the bike back down and the splines were well lubed. Water had gotten in the transmission. New tranny oil and all was fine.

Your bike had new 75-90 semi synthetic Valvoline oil when it left my possession 2 years ago.

That K will not shift anywhere near as smooth as a Honda,Yamaha, Kawasaki or Suzuki.

Ralph Sims

 

[barooo]

Tongue was firmly in cheek about the assumptions of your mechanical abilities.

I'll look at the clutch boot you mentioned. The reason I posted is that I've never noticed this particular quirk before. I noticed that it shifts like a gravel truck, but I think I've mostly figured out what it likes. I don't know if I'm shifting different, or the bike is responding different. Chicago riding season may be winding down, I have one weekend trip planned then it's probably short jaunts if weather permits until November, then mostly done. I'm starting to make plans for winter projects which is why I figured I'd ask about it, so I can make plans and what not.

I'll mess around with RPMs and technique next time I'm out by myself, my wife gets nervous when I do stuff other than what's required by traffic, etc. when she's on the back. It may just be the way I was shifting. The balkiness seems to be when I downshift from 4->3 when stopping, so it may be that I'm not well matched for the shift. It did seem like if I waited a second or two after disengaging the clutch it would be balky but if I did it immediately on pulling in the clutch it wouldn't, but if I waited until almost stopped it would be easier again. So it may just be that previously I was downshifting when I was almost stopped, but now I'm doing it sooner but not quick enough to have it be a normal rev matched downshift...

This is BuddingGeezer down in Arkansas and yes I lubed the clutch splines with Honda Moly 60 and they were in excellent shape, and yes, I know what I'm doing. The BMW tranny is not a Yamaha and probably doesn't what to go into 1st gear above 10 mph. I can't remember my if my K100 would or not. I usually don't downshift to 1st above 10mph. I bought the bike in question to sell and put around 100 miles on it and it shifted like a BMW (clunky). Others may can tell you more about the 1st gear down shift.

One thing to check is the clutch arm boot. If it is torn water can get into the transmission. I had a torn boot on my K100LT and rode around 400 miles in the rain on a trip. Before I got home I could not downshift without stomping the shift pedal. This puzzled me as I had done a clutch spline lube before the trip. I tore the bike back down and the splines were well lubed. Water had gotten in the transmission. New tranny oil and all was fine.

Your bike had new 75-90 semi synthetic Valvoline oil when it left my possession 2 years ago.

That K will not shift anywhere near as smooth as a Honda,Yamaha, Kawasaki or Suzuki.

Ralph Sims

 

[kentuvman]

I've got a K75 and it doesn't like going into first while moving period. Finding neutral is so easy compared to my F650 that I just tap the shift lever from 2nd to Neutral and wait for a green light or why I'm stopped.

The BMW transmissions are C L U N K Y - at least mine it - the clutch spline lube really improved downshifting but still my K75 doesn't like going into first while she's rolling. There is a definite rhythm and finesse with downshifting - I downshift gradually as I slow down until I hit 2 or Neutral.

My experience!

 

[35634]

I agree with kentuvman. It is almost a shock to me when I ride a jap bike and it
just snicks from gear to gear, up or down. Where is the challenge in that?

 

[glenpietrzyk]

Mine's the same way- although I notice it's easier to downshift to the lower gears if i point my left foot inwards and shift with my foot on the part where the shift pedal meets the shift lever arm. Not sure why this works better (maybe it's a leverage thing), but it makes it a touch less clunky.

Oftentimes to make it easier, i'll just pull the clutch in and coast to a stop (with brakes, of course) in 5th gear, and then downshift when i'm stopped. Hopefully this isn't doing anything bad to the bike!

 

[knary]

It's very likely a question of technique. I now find a traditional BMW transmission as smooth as I'd ever want, but it took a while. Downshifting a "normal" BMW requires a smoother and better matching of engine to speed than that old Yamaha.

 

[rnowell]

Downshifting to First Gear

I also have a K75 and hadn't noticed a problem with downshifting, so I experimented with it today. Try blipping the throttle to 4500-5000 rpms at 30 mph
before downshifting into first. I engine brake all the time with this bike and have no problems. The shifting up and down is usually accompanied by a "clunk", that means its a BMW.

 

[Rudyjo]

Bmw Transmissions

A few days after I bought my 1992 K75, I called the previous owner and asked
If he had problems with the transmission, he said no and that they are not the
smoothest shifting but they are pretty much bulletproof. He said to not baby it
and you'll get the hang of it. It took me over 800 miles of riding, but it's 95%
better than when I started riding it, It still hangs up between gears every
100 miles or so. I also notice that how you place your foot on the shift lever
makes a difference, In my case, it seems to shift better by keeping my foot toward
the outer end of the lever.

 

[DPRYAN]

It's very likely a question of technique. I now find a traditional BMW transmission as smooth as I'd ever want, but it took a while. Downshifting a "normal" BMW requires a smoother and better matching of engine to speed than that old Yamaha.

+1 And in my case, it seemed to take QUITE a while....

My main 'clunking' was always in the lower gears, both shifting and downshifting. Definitely more finicky than my Concours...... requiring better matching of engine speed as mentioned above.

I read a suggestion (maybe on this forum?) to sort of 'pre-load' the shifter and that seems to have helped me. If I don't hurry the shift and sort of finesse it a bit, the 1st to 2nd shift is much, much smoother.... most times 'clunk-less'.

 

[knary]

The magic trick for me was pulling the clutch lever in only as much as needed to get it shift smoothly. The MSF-style of pull-in-lever-then-shift makes for some clunky shifting!

 

[BCKRider]

Like most early K bike riders, I occasionally miss shifts. Before you start looking for expensive things to repair, remember the drill. Preload the shifter (a slight pressure either up or down) and then slightly pull in the clutch and the bike will shift.

If you pull in the clutch and then press or tap the gear lever you may well have problems. The preload is important on many BMW bikes. You may experience the same problem at a long stop light where you shift into neutral. A little practice out of traffic is not a bad idea.

When you do all these things right and still experience problems, especially when downshifting, then you may have real clutch problems. While this is out of my league, many others on this forum can offer very expert advice.

 

[pglaves]

I hate to be the bearer of unhappy news, but despite its popularity for this purpose I don't really think Honda Moly 60 is the perfect spline lube. I had to stop in the middle of our summer travels and lube the splines on Voni's K75 - 17,000 miles after I did it in the spring. I found the splines dry.

I normally use a stickier moly grease concoction which does stay put, but used the HM60 this spring because it is what I had on hand.

I've lubed K bike splines a couple of dozen times so doubt it was a problem with my technique.

 

[PHMARVIN]

Hi, Paul,
I think is WAS your technique. I think you need to practice more. And just to help, I have a couple of K75's which have not (to my knowledge) been lubed or have accumulated the mileage necessary to need relubing. When do you want me to bring them down to "practice"?

 

[pglaves]

Hi, Paul,
I think is WAS your technique. I think you need to practice more. And just to help, I have a couple of K75's which have not (to my knowledge) been lubed or have accumulated the mileage necessary to need relubing. When do you want me to bring them down to "practice"?

The lift is usually empty, Phil.

 

[JohnM]

With my K75RT, the term "agricultural" comes to mind ....

... or the legendary Russian T34 of WWII, where a hammer was standard equipment to get the transmission from one gear to the next.

 

[58058D]

Chiming in

Just to chime in, I am on my 4th K. They have all been 4 cyclinder RSs but I doubt there is much difference in how they handle going from 2nd through N to 1st. NONE of my bricks appreciated going into 1st while moving. Yeah they would do it if you really insisted, but it usually got the attention of everyone in the area and felt like hell. I am so used to not even considering it that I have not even tried going into 1st while moving on my new 1300S. Besides, it has so much torque, I can go from 2nd if a light changes before I actually stop.

 

[BCKRider]

Just to be sure we are all on the original topic - "barooo's" shifting problem. My suggestion was that it either was a question of technic where even experienced BMW owners can not meet "the needs of the machine" on occasion, or it might be a CLUTCH spline lube problem. And that is beyond the capabilities of most home mechanics, Paul Glaves definitely excepted, though I wonder how he did this when on the road, since it involves getting pretty deep into the engine.

To be clear, a K bike will shift just fine (or as well as they ever do) when your final drive is shot and leaves you at the side of the road.

Perhaps Paul G. (and there is no questions he is THE expert on K bikes) could clarify his previous answer. Can't imagine how he finds the time to respond when he is on a motorcycle trip.

 

[pglaves]

As noted earlier, I did that spline lube on the road (meaning away from home) by visiting Dave Swisher and using his shop. That said, I was prepared to do it in a campground if necessary. As long as you can immobilize the front wheel firmly you can jack under the engine and remove the transmission. The first time I did the procedure was in a garage with the wheel firmly strapped to the upright post in the center of the garage. I have done it with the wheel strapped to a tree. I carry all the tools needed, but would need to borrow or buy a jack to block under the engine.

Added: Which reminds me - one year at the Kansas Rally a rider from Colorado had the starter ring gear rivits shear - detaching the ring gear from the metal fingers attaching it to the flywheel hub. He had a large chunk of steel bouncing around at a location where it could ram things up rather dramatically.

It was a nearly new bike, still under warranty, but ... he was 600 miles from home.

So we rolled it under a tree, pulled the transmission, and simply took that ring gear out and put it back together. He had to bump start it to get it home, but was riding with a couple of other riders so that was no big problem.

I told him to just take it to the dealer and tell them it wouldn't start and see what they said.