WA-support lane sharing

[Fritzc]

Decisions?

"We think that no one should Lane Share, but believe that everyone should have the right to make their own decisions."

Well now that is quite a profound statement. Does that philosophy follow for all the rest of traffic laws as well??? ( I swore I would not get into this again but just have to!)
Seems to me that all this talk about Lane Sharing is about motorcycles having the RIGHT to "accompany" me in my lane (yes! I said MY lane). The term "sharing" implies mutual consent which is fine with me and I would be glad to slide over in my cage and let you squeeze by but my neck hairs bristle a little at some that think they have a RIGHT to my lane of traffic.

 

[boney]

I completely understand your sentiment Fritz. Perhaps as someone who has been around it for my entire life, on motorcycles and in cages, I have grown comfortable with the closeness of the situation.

EDIT: I'm not suggesting that we all make choices about whether we want to follow the laws. I'm suggesting that if Lane Sharing is somehow legalized in a state, that we all now have the choice whether or not to engage in the activity. Like wearing a helmet in, say, Utah. I can, or I don't have to, it is my choice because the law allows me to choose.

In my first post, back on the first page, I mentioned how it is much like downhill skiing. The basic law "don't hit the guy in front of you" applies. As a motorcyclist moving through traffic, it is my responsibility to avoid the accident. Not the car's. I have the "right" to try it, but I'm subject to a lot of different laws, including those ones of physics.

In fact, there's a plethora of laws that the CHP can throw at just about anyone who is not responsible in Sharing the Lane. Unsafe lane change (if you cross the line, technically you changed lanes), unsafe passing, strattling lanes (occupying space in two lanes at the same time), wreckless driving, violations of the "basic speed law" ( driving faster than the conditions safely allow.) It's not the wild west, and ANY patol officer could easily find a reason to pull over a cyclist engaged in Lane Sharing just about any time. They just ignore those of us who are responsible about it, and cause a lot of problems for those who can't help themselves. It's not uncommon to hear about someone who got a ticket while lane sharing... just that the ticket is not for "sharing" but some other related infraction.

I would imagine, that the topic of who had the "rights" to the lane would always point toward the person who originally occupied the lane. I.e. the car. The way the law is (not) written in CA (not that I'm an expert) would suggest that it is deliberately left off the books to prevent a battle of rights when it comes to who the lane "belongs" to. I know it's your part of the lane, and I know that if I hit you or vice versa, I'm probably going to be found at fault and cited for any or all of the above violations. I was the one taking the risk- you were an "innocent bystander" so to speak.

I know that this is not the first time WA has tried to pass this, perhaps they would be more successful in re-writing the portion of the Vehicle Code that pertained to the number of vehicles occupying a parallel space in one lane. This would not implicitly "allow" it so much as make it "not illegal" as it is here in CA, while still allowing for all the other types of citations.

And Fritz, all motorcyclists like people who move over a bit, or otherwise somehow allow for a better ride. I'm sure you do- when someone goes out of their way to be nice. Around here I wave, as do most, to the cagers who are friendly in that way. It's silly, I know, but somehow I think that everyone wants to be "the cool guy" and might one day move over to get the wave too.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

One problem in this debate is that we're discussing apples and oranges. On one hand, we're talking about lane splitting in general. Is it a good idea? Is it safe? On the other hand, we're talking specifically about Washington State's proposed legislation. What does this legislation say? What would be the impact of this specific proposal were it to pass?

I don't care at all to hear anyone's opinions on the first issue. What matters is how this specific regulation would affect safe riding in Washington State.

My concerns with Washington State's proposal are the results that will occur under the three conditions in which lane splitting/sharing would be allowed:

1. Traffic in all lanes must be moving at or lower than 50% of the posted speed limit. (i.e. on our urban freeways, lane splitting would only be allowed when the speed of traffic is at or below 30 mph.

2. The rider splitting lanes can go no faster than 10 mph faster than the vehicles being passed.

3. There must be at least two lanes proceeding in the direction of travel.

So, with these definitions limiting the times and places when lane splitting can take place, we've restricted it to the busiest times on our busiest urban highways.

Those "splitting lanes" will be able to go no faster than 40 mph if the rest of the traffic is moving at 50% of the posted speed limit (30 mph). 10 mph faster isn't justification enough, in my opinion. To gain a 10 mph advantage, a rider could simply leave 10 minutes earlier to save just as much time in a much safer manner.

Lane splitting may work on sun-kissed California freeways, but on our dark and wet mid-Winter Seattle freeways, it's a different matter entirely. We don't need lane splitting to confuse and inflame the cagers.

 

[kbasa]

Lane splitting may work on sun-kissed California freeways, but on our dark and wet mid-Winter Seattle freeways, it's a different matter entirely. We don't need lane splitting to confuse and inflame the cagers.

You're obviously thinking of that other California, the one down south. We get plenty of rain up here in the Bay Area.

Regardless, you've missed the ability to filter to the front of the pack at stoplights.

That alone is almost worth it. Imagine riding on city streets and being able to enjoy that little bubble of empty street ahead of the pack, every time you leave a red light.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

You're obviously thinking of that other California, the one down south. We get plenty of rain up here in the Bay Area.

Regardless, you've missed the ability to filter to the front of the pack at stoplights.

That alone is almost worth it. Imagine riding on city streets and being able to enjoy that little bubble of empty street ahead of the pack, every time you leave a red light.

I've said earlier and I'll say it again - I have no objection to filtering as long as the cages are all stopped. So let's submit a bill that allows filtering at a stoplight.

But the legislation we're talking about here isn't about filtering - it's about lane splitting/sharing, with cars moving 30 mph and bikes passing between the cars at 40 mph. And in my opinion, that's a dangerous situation. So that's what I've told my elected officials. Feel free to tell your elected officials your opinion. That's how democracy works

Here is the text of the legislation, in it's entirety:

HOUSE BILL 2160
_____________________________________________
State of Washington 60th Legislature 2007 Regular Session
By Representatives Curtis, Lovick, Upthegrove, O'Brien, Moeller and
Sells

Read first time 02/12/2007. Referred to Committee on Transportation.

AN ACT Relating to the operation of motorcycles between lanes of traffic or vehicles; and amending RCW 46.61.608.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:
Sec. 1. RCW 46.61.608 and 1975 c 62 s 46 are each amended to read as follows:

(1) All motorcycles are entitled to full use of a lane and no motor vehicle shall be driven in such a manner as to deprive any motorcycle of the full use of a lane. This subsection shall not apply to motorcycles operated two abreast in a single lane.
(2) The operator of a motorcycle shall not overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle being overtaken, except as permitted in subsection (3) of this section.
(3) No person shall operate a motorcycle between lanes of traffic or between adjacent lines or rows of vehicles, unless (a) the average speed of traffic at any time is substantially slower than the posted speed limit for the roadway, (b) there are two or more lanes of traffic for vehicles proceeding in the same direction at that time, and (c) a reasonable and prudent operator of a motorcycle would consider it safe to operate a motorcycle no more than ten miles per hour over the
average speed of traffic at that time between the lanes of traffic.

As used in this subsection, "substantially slower" means a speed that is half or less than half of the posted speed limit. Motorcycles shall not be operated more than two abreast in a single lane. The restrictions imposed by subsections (2) and (3) of this section shall not apply to police officers in the performance of their official duties.

 

[boney]

[Musing:]

Where does imposing ones will on others end? In Southern California someone didn't like loud pipes and now there's whole subdivisions where motorcycles are not even allowed on the street. While I agree that loud pipes are obnoxious, my point is that if everyone would take a second and realize their impact on other peoples lives, those which really have very little influence on our own, then we'd all be far less likely to take a stance on something that doesn't really affect us.
When the car drivers, who far outnumber motorcyclists decide that motorcycling is too dangerous, what then do we do as motorcyclists? They already MAKE us wear helmets in some states whether or not we would anyway.

[/Musing]

Curiously, lets just brainstorm a minute about what the effect someone else's Lane Sharing would be... Would it affect me in my car? Is there the possibility that it could benefit me in my car? Would it affect me if I rode my motorcycle and chose not to do it? What affect on me, personally, would someone else's lane sharing have? IMO, unless they hit me, probably none.

I can come up with a million "what if's" but I think the most important "what if" everyone in Washington should ask themself is "what if they allowed lane sharing?" Would there be mayhem? Not likely. An increase in traffic collisions and deaths? Hmmm, hard to say...

[More Musing:]

It seems like the common governmental theme of the last too-many years has been the "us vs. them" mentality, or the "my way or the highway." That mentailty is bleeding into our lives and becoming the national standard. Perhaps, instead of drawing our lines in the sand and daring each other to cross it we should all work together to come up with some reasonable legislation that works for everyone, not just the 51% who want to force something on 49% of the population. I'm not saying that I'm perfect and don't do it too... but if we were all a bit more aware of it...

[/More Musing]

dvandkq, I did notice that you're in favor of filtering and feel that the 10 mph limit over 50% of posted traffic speed is not worth the legislation. Please tell us what you think would be reasonable in the event that some sort of lane sharing provision did pass through the WA state govt.

 

[PDF]

Glad to see this bill is back. I hope it passes this time.

I am amazed at all the posters who would block fellow motorcyclists from lane-splitting. I mean I get it - it's outside your comfort zone. You don't feel safe doing it. That's fine, but why do you want to rain on the parade for the rest of us?

 

[boney]

Here is a link to a blog where the guy analyzed fatal rear-end accident data between states and drew the conclusion that Lane Sharing saves several Californians lives each year.

http://www.whybike.com/blog/index.php?p=147


And let's not forget that Harry Hurt favored it too.

 

[Threeteas]

shades of grey

Once again dvandkq has used a case to suit his arguement, that being, the difference between travelling at 30mph and 40 mph. Even as an advocate of lane sharing, I too might decide that on dark, wet nights, 30mph progress is sufficient, staying in lane rather than opting for nominal additional progress at 40mph. Those conditions may well count as being adverse.

Likewise 10mph against static traffic, or 20mph against 10mph 30 against 20 etc.. on sunny dry days, would be a distinct benefit to me.
Favourable conditions.
It's about evaluating the situation.

I take a shades of grey approach, it appears dvandkq can't see beyond dark, wet, blackness, however, I'd guess he rides in less than ideal conditions, indeed he pointed out the state of the roads in places. Why does he feel that's acceptable riding conditions - because of his personal preferences and risk index.
He has his, others have theirs.
I can live with his, why can't he accept others?

Don't know.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

Last night I spoke with a Motorcycle Safety Foundation instructor who told me he is personally opposed to lane splitting and that the MSF is, as an organization, opposed to lane splitting.

I'm no expert on motorcycle safety, but I feel confident the Motorcycle Safety Foundation is an expert on motorcycle safety. If they are opposed to lane splitting, that's good enough for me.

I've been sharing what I've learned with my elected representative (who is a co-sponsor of the bill) and his perception is that this legislation is dead for this year.

So, I think it's safe to say there will be no lane splitting allowed in Washington for at least another year.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

Once again dvandkq has used a case to suit his arguement, that being, the difference between travelling at 30mph and 40 mph. Even as an advocate of lane sharing, I too might decide that on dark, wet nights, 30mph progress is sufficient, staying in lane rather than opting for nominal additional progress at 40mph. Those conditions may well count as being adverse.

Likewise 10mph against static traffic, or 20mph against 10mph 30 against 20 etc.. on sunny dry days, would be a distinct benefit to me.
Favourable conditions.
It's about evaluating the situation.

I take a shades of grey approach, it appears dvandkq can't see beyond dark, wet, blackness, however, I'd guess he rides in less than ideal conditions, indeed he pointed out the state of the roads in places. Why does he feel that's acceptable riding conditions - because of his personal preferences and risk index.
He has his, others have theirs.
I can live with his, why can't he accept others?

Don't know.

Feel free to share your perspective with your elected officials. That's what they're there for. I've shared my opinion with my elected representatives.

I apologize that I've worked in the Washington State Legislature as a chief of staff to several representatives and senators, and thus have an inside perspective on how our state capitol works. I also apologize for having been a transportation lobbyist in a former life, and using those skills and connections to kill lane splitting in Washington State for this year.

I'm sure lane splitting will be back in future legislative sessions, and you can feel free to ask your representatives to enact a bill that would permit lane splitting. Just keep in mind that I'll be there, too - actively fighting any attempt to allow lane splitting here in Washington State.

It's just democracy, after all.

 

[boney]

Last night I spoke with a Motorcycle Safety Foundation instructor who told me he is personally opposed to lane splitting and that the MSF is, as an organization, opposed to lane splitting.

Just out of curiosity, what lane sharing experience and expertise did this particular instuctor have. Has this instructor ever split lanes? How much? Or is he just spouting uninformed and inexperianced opinion?

I'll put money on this topic. I'll bet that 99% of MSF instructors in California are for Lane Sharing.

I'm no expert on motorcycle safety, but I feel confident the Motorcycle Safety Foundation is an expert on motorcycle safety. If they are opposed to lane splitting, that's good enough for me.

Please make reference to this official position for us. I'd like to see it in writing. I think your friend is mistaken.

So, I think it's safe to say there will be no lane splitting allowed in Washington for at least another year.

Not if I'm in town.

 

[boney]

I apologize that I've worked in the Washington State Legislature as a chief of staff to several representatives and senators, and thus have an inside perspective on how our state capitol works. I also apologize for having been a transportation lobbyist in a former life, and using those skills and connections to kill lane splitting in Washington State for this year.

IF any of the above is indeed true, Do not apologize. You have made it perfectly clear that you will not tolerate other people doing something that you do not like. The narrow minded "us vs. them" mentaility in our recent political process is preciely why this county is not what it used to be. Too bad that you appear to be interested in continuing the problem, not being part of the solution.

 

[BRADFORDBENN]

I'm no expert on motorcycle safety, but I feel confident the Motorcycle Safety Foundation is an expert on motorcycle safety. If they are opposed to lane splitting, that's good enough for me.

I applaud some of the efforts of the MSF, but some of their recent actions has put their motives into question in my mind. So I would instead encourage you to do some of your own research and look at other sources for additional information. Such as some of the excellent writings of Dave Hough. I have also been sitting in stopped traffic being more worried about being rear ended and thinking I should break the law and lane split as that would be safer...

Everything, and I do mean everything, has its risks... you need to determine what is the correct approach for you and your situation

 

[Fritzc]

My final word.

Lane sharing, splitting, encroachment, trespassing or what ever you wish to call it has a sister her in Michigan. Take this from another prospective! Here in Michigan, especially in the northern areas, snowmobiles are allowed to ride on side roads in the winter when snow covered. However, ANY collision between an automobile and a snowmobile on said roads is considered to be the fault of the snowmobile. That is not a problem for me and I think the same could go for lane splitting/sharing etc.
The traffic laws also, I believe, consider an accident occurring when ANY vehicle is overtaking another on a two lane road it is always the passing vehicle that must take the blame. I just don't want to be blamed when some cyclist encroaches into my lane, goes under the wheels of my 25 ton truck then sues me!!!

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

Here is the text of an email just received from State Rep. Al O'Brien, a co-sponsor of the lane splitting legislation:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: O'Brien, Rep. Al [OBrien.Al@leg.wa.gov]
Sent: Mon 3/5/2007 11:32 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Motorcycle lane sharing/splitting

Doug,

I believe the bill is dead.

Al

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now this debate is academic/moot/etc.

I'm happy/pleased/ecstatic/grateful that lane sharing works for you on your freeways in another state. In MY OPINION, lane sharing won't work here in Washington State. I conveyed MY OPINION to my elected representatives that our highways and motorists are too unsafe to allow lane sharing. I believe it is my right to share MY OPINION with my elected representatives. Why people must lambaste me for exercising my constitutional rights is beyond me.

If you live in Washington State, you have every right to contact YOUR elected representatives and ask them to resurrect lane sharing legislation this legislative session. Calling me names or criticizing my constitutionally protected activities won't get lane splitting legislation passed by the legislature this session.

If you don't live in Washington State, you have every right to contact YOUR elected representatives and ask them to specifically permit lane sharing in YOUR state.

The fact that NO state has legislation permitting lane sharing tells me volumes about the safety and practicality of this activity. Only one state permits lane sharing, and only because there is no law specifically allowing it (California). All the other 49 states specifically oppose lane splitting. Why? Is it because everyone is a moron, or is it because there are valid reasons for prohibiting the activity?

My unscientific observations are that the only people who are for lane splitting are the guys on their sport bikes who have to go 90 mph all the time. Those of us on touring or sport touring or cruising bikes are often too wide to split lanes with our luggage and fairings sticking out. Why should sport bikes be the only ones allowed to lane split?

I'm not an extremist. If the bill was re-written to only permit lane splitting when cage traffic was completely stopped, I'd be for it. But to permit lane splitting between moving columns of cages is simply asking for someone to kill a motorcyclist with their cage.

I apologize for wanting to save you and your bike from a stupid cage driver.

You guys probably opposed mandatory helmet regulations when they were introduced as well.

 

[Threeteas]

One man, one vote, one opinion.

Great to see democracy working so well here, and that people with privileged acces don't abuse that power, instead preferring to operate in the non-elected role that the rest of us abide by, rather than short cutting the system to gain personal advantage.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

Great to see democracy working so well here, and that people with privileged acces don't abuse that power, instead preferring to operate in the non-elected role that the rest of us abide by, rather than short cutting the system to gain personal advantage.

I have privileged access? I guess if having my State Rep's email address is "privileged access", then I have "privileged access".

Whatever.

I've never said lane splitting should remain illegal because the act of splitting is inherently dangerous to me.

I've repeatedly said lane splitting should remain illegal because it will confuse and anger cage drivers, who will respond by taking out their frustrations on ALL motorcyclists, not just those electing to split.

Of course we all need to evaluate our individual skills, our motorcycle's capabilities, and the weather and roadway conditions when we make any decision while riding.

Why aren't we allowed to drive on the shoulders when traffic gets bad? Perhaps because they are called "safety shoulders"? Perhaps because the free space is occasionally needed to accommodate disabled vehicles? Perhaps because the free space provides room for drivers to escape hazards ahead? Why are traffic lanes so much wider than the vehicles that use them? Is it simply to annoy the hurried motorcyclist who laments all that wasted unused space, or is it to provide additional cushion from the vehicles traveling in space around you? That space on either side of a car is the temporary property of that car. They have every right to use it as long as they don't cross the lines should they desire to avoid a pothole, something that fell off another vehicle, road kill - whatever it is that we find blocking our lanes on a daily basis.

Now if you want to propose legislation that creates a motorcycle only lane out of four feet of the left shoulder of major highways, you'll have my support...

 

[Threeteas]

Cake and eat it

I have privileged access? I guess if having my State Rep's email address is "privileged access", then I have "privileged access".

I apologize that I've worked in the Washington State Legislature as a chief of staff to several representatives and senators, and thus have an inside perspective on how our state capitol works. I also apologize for having been a transportation lobbyist in a former life, and using those skills and connections to kill lane splitting in Washington State for this year.

The transportation lobbying you dealt with wouldn't be in conflict with lane sharing would it, or, perhaps, be colouring your perspective by any chance?

It certainly doesn't seem to be an opinion you've based upon the indicated preferances of your fellow riders. So, is there a vested interest?

Just asking for clarity, on why you seem so happy to be going against the poll (inaccurate I know, but better than an 'I guess statement', eg. I've repeatedly said lane splitting should remain illegal because it will confuse and anger cage drivers, who will respond by taking out their frustrations on ALL motorcyclists, not just those electing to split or the even better example, My unscientific observations are that the only people who are for lane splitting are the guys on their sport bikes who have to go 90 mph all the time. [/I

So, consistancy in arguements also adds to credibility, as does having some facts and I'd hoped majority support over minority belly aching louder would have held sway, but you seem to indicate that won't be the case. Well done.
.

 

[boney]

I've repeatedly said lane splitting should remain illegal because it will confuse and anger cage drivers, who will respond by taking out their frustrations on ALL motorcyclists, not just those electing to split.

Of course we all need to evaluate our individual skills, our motorcycle's capabilities, and the weather and roadway conditions when we make any decision while riding.

Why aren't we allowed to drive on the shoulders when traffic gets bad? Perhaps because they are called "safety shoulders"? Perhaps because the free space is occasionally needed to accommodate disabled vehicles? Perhaps because the free space provides room for drivers to escape hazards ahead? Why are traffic lanes so much wider than the vehicles that use them? Is it simply to annoy the hurried motorcyclist who laments all that wasted unused space, or is it to provide additional cushion from the vehicles traveling in space around you? That space on either side of a car is the temporary property of that car. They have every right to use it as long as they don't cross the lines should they desire to avoid a pothole, something that fell off another vehicle, road kill - whatever it is that we find blocking our lanes on a daily basis.

What I truely find puzzling, when Lane Sharing works everywhere else in this world (and California- SSHH!), is that a few people are so blinded by their fear of something different that they look beyond the facts, figures, and supporting data, and constantly reinforce themselves with misguided arguments that hold very little footing under scrutiny AND ACTUAL PRACTICE. Specifically when you apply them to the daily goings on in the global motorcycling community, (and California- SSHH!).

"If I repeat it enough times, it will be the truth."


EDIT: Or simply put, "the data proves that your opinion is misguided."