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WA-support lane sharing

lane sharing...For or Against

  • For

    Votes: 35 71.4%
  • Against

    Votes: 11 22.4%
  • Don't Know

    Votes: 3 6.1%

  • Total voters
    49
Lane Sharing In California my Experiences

Lane sharing is useful, overall it reduces traffic, it keeps aircooled motors cool and keeps the transmissions from those bikes from locking up due to shifting difficulties, it keeps your left hand from cramping up with frequent stop and go traffic. The downside of lane sharing is some people abuse it they go too fast, or only once I have seen this: a group of canyon racers "swarm" maybe 40 of them got on the freeway at the same time and were splitting all lanes at one time at a pretty good clip traffic was about 30 mph, leaving drivers no room for changes or emergency. On occaision I have had drivers cut me off and I always try to have an escape gap. Trucks, SUVs, Vans and semi's are the hardest to deal with. But as mentioned in other posts here, most of the drivers will move over for you. It is really important that you are moving forward to the next gap. Unfortunately there are alot of "mirror" drivers and not as many people looking back in lane changes. I have been riding the freeways here in southern California for 21 years and so far so good. I would estimate my total mileage at about 4500 miles between the lanes out of about 110,000 motorcycle miles. It is not my preferred method it makes me tense and my shoulders ache after a while, but when traffic slows to a crawl I used it. We are fortunate here because there are so many motorcycles year round and people look and expect them. Other states that have lower densities of bikers may not be looking for them. I think initially the learning curve might be steep but a good education through Public Service Announcements (radio,TV), Driver Licensing, Registration Flyers and Motorcycle Safety Programs could get people on the right track. Even some people here once they are educated to the reasons why lane splitting/sharing is legal- less traffic, overheating AirCooled motors, Rider fatigue etc, have a completly new appreciation for motorcyclists and the machines.
 
My philosophy while riding is that if you aren't afraid, you aren't paying attention to what could potentially happen.

I don't mean being afraid as in cowering from the challenges specific to motorcycling, I mean afraid as in being aware that at any moment you can die doing what you love.

In a car or truck, at any moment something could happen that would deploy the airbags, activate the seatbelt pretensioners, etc. With the modern safety equipment that's standard on any late-model automobile, chances are very high you'll survive the car crash.

On a motorcycle, at any moment that same something that becomes an inconvenience for the driver kills a motorcyclist. That's why the experts recommend you scan your path of travel 12 seconds ahead of you and suggest a four second following distance for riders - and longer in less than optimal conditions.

The stakes are so much higher on a motorcycle. I'd like to complete the ride safely so I can get home to my wife and toddler. Ride to live, live to ride.

As today is Sine Die in the Washington State Legislature, I propose this thread be closed until the next session of the legislature.

I'm glad you had a nice vacation in Europe.
 
I think initially the learning curve might be steep but a good education through Public Service Announcements (radio,TV), Driver Licensing, Registration Flyers and Motorcycle Safety Programs could get people on the right track.

The legislation that was proposed in Washington State had none of this included. It simply would have permitted lane splitting. Period. No education campaign, no outreach to motorists, no nothing. All the legislation called for was that on one day lane splitting would be illegal and the next day it would be legal.

My objection to lane splitting in Washington is that car drivers wouldn't expect riders passing between them and the car in the next lane. I'm not willing to sacrifice any of my fellow riders in the name of educating a driver.
 
The legislation that was proposed in Washington State had none of this included. It simply would have permitted lane splitting. Period. No education campaign, no outreach to motorists, no nothing. All the legislation called for was that on one day lane splitting would be illegal and the next day it would be legal.

My objection to lane splitting in Washington is that car drivers wouldn't expect riders passing between them and the car in the next lane. I'm not willing to sacrifice any of my fellow riders in the name of educating a driver.

Your fellow rider isn't yours to sacrifice.
 
fearful

Riding with awareness and riding with fear are two completely different states.
Whilst you may be aware, fear can impere your reactions and judgement.

Riding abley and using good judgement should mean you don't need to be afraid, just aware of situations, what could happen and what strategies you have in place for elimination of the elements, which when compounded, lead to accidents.

If you can eliminate any one of the components, then the potential for an accident is avoided. It's like taking a link out of a chain which has a predetermined end. Remove the link and suddenly there are two endings. You have an option as to the outcome.

The times that relate to distances are minimums, they alter with speed, weather conditions, state of your bike and all other prevelent factors. You did however miss the 2 second time allowance between you and the nearest vehicle in front.
I doubt whether this applies in static traffic, although it could be the safety margin if lane sharing.

You are correct that an educational/awareness programme should be added for consideration. I believe it was assumed that such action would be taken and assumption is a mistake waiting to happen. It will be corrected.
 
Your fellow rider isn't yours to sacrifice.

Which is precisely why I'm not willing to sacrifice them.

Two riders "sacrificed" themselves here in the Seattle-metro region over the past two days. Both were riding "crotch rockets" shortly after bar-closing time. You do the math on why they wrecked. Both fatal accidents made the local news. Both now-dead riders contributed to furthering the negative perception the general public has of riders. I try to do everything I can to increase a positive relationship with car drivers, and that's one of the reasons I have the opinions I've expressed in this thread.

Some of my philosophy toward this issue comes from my interest in furthering positive and limiting negative interactions between motorcyclists and drivers.
 
Huh?

Which is precisely why I'm not willing to sacrifice them.

Two riders "sacrificed" themselves here in the Seattle-metro region over the past two days. Both were riding "crotch rockets" shortly after bar-closing time. You do the math on why they wrecked. Both fatal accidents made the local news. Both now-dead riders contributed to furthering the negative perception the general public has of riders. I try to do everything I can to increase a positive relationship with car drivers, and that's one of the reasons I have the opinions I've expressed in this thread.

How in the heck do you equate stupidity to a sacrifice?? Stupidity caused these crashes, not the fact they were riding crotch rockets. They most certainly didn't sacrifice themselves! I also fail to see how this could possibly further the negative perception the general public has about mororcyclist.
 
I'm still waiting for the opponents to provide some actual data, not just inexperienced opinion and supposition.

Just like I'm still waiting for the proponents to provide some actual data showing lane splitting to be safe.

All I've ever seen quoted are suppositions derived from the aptly named "Hurt Report". My understanding of the Hurt Report is that it is a now out of date compilation of motorcycle crash statistics. According to the summaries I've seen, the report never specifically mentions lane splitting. I've seen several supporters of lane splitting argue that since the report shows motorcyclists are sometimes rear-ended in traffic, those instances will disappear when lane splitting is introduced, and thus the Hurt Report says lane splitting improves motorcycle safety.

How about we talk about the law of unintended consequences? I'll grant that some rear-end collisions would be avoided if lane splitting were introduced. Will you grant that new types of crashes will occur specifically because of lane splitting?

We need to conduct a study that analyzes the causes of motorcycle crashes in California, as California is the only state where lane splitting happens legally. Let's study lane splitting in California (something that has yet to happen), see how lane splitting empirically (not anecdotally) impacts safety, and go from there.

You lane-splitting proponents seem to think Washington State is the only state that DOESN'T allow lane splitting - like we're a bunch of goofy hold-outs up here or something. No state specifically allows lane splitting. California is the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane splitting, and thus it's "legal" in one state and one state only. Can 49 states all be so wrong? What do you know that the legislators, safety advocates, transportation engineers, etc. in 49 states just don't get? Let's get real - states that don't have helmet laws still prohibit lane splitting. Why? Because everyone involved in the decision making process in 49 states are morons?

What about the opinions of LEO's who have posted to this thread, who consider lane splitting dangerous, and who are on record opposing its legalization? Are they a bunch of morons, too?
 
You are, as I understand it, a new rider. Have you ever ridden in California? Have you ever lane split?
 
Just like I'm still waiting for the proponents to provide some actual data showing lane splitting to be safe.

All I've ever seen quoted are suppositions derived from the aptly named "Hurt Report". My understanding of the Hurt Report is that it is a now out of date compilation of motorcycle crash statistics. According to the summaries I've seen, the report never specifically mentions lane splitting. I've seen several supporters of lane splitting argue that since the report shows motorcyclists are sometimes rear-ended in traffic, those instances will disappear when lane splitting is introduced.

How about we talk about the law of unintended consequences? I'll grant that some rear-end collisions would be avoided if lane splitting were introduced. Will you grant that crashes will occur specifically because of lane splitting?

We need to conduct a study that analyzes the causes of motorcycle crashes in California, as California is the only state where lane splitting happens legally. Let's study lane splitting in California (something that has yet to happen), see how lane splitting empirically (not anecdotally) impacts safety, and go from there.

You lane-splitting proponents seem to think Washington State is the only state that DOESN'T allow lane splitting - like we're a bunch of goofy hold-outs up here or something. No state specifically allows lane splitting. California is the only state that doesn't specifically prohibit lane splitting, and thus it's "legal" in one state and one state only. Can 49 states all be so wrong? What do you know that the legislators, safety advocates, transportation engineers, etc. in 49 states just don't get? Let's get real - states that don't have helmet laws still prohibit lane splitting. Why? Because everyone involved in the decision making process in 49 states are morons?

What about the opinions of LEO's who have posted to this thread, who consider lane splitting dangerous, and who are on record opposing its legalization? Are they a bunch of morons, too?

Your 'facts' and suppositions are all wrong. It's not illegal in California therefore it's "allowed" always has been. Other states saw a rise in motorcycle use and specifically made it illegal - for what reason - that is the root cause of descent. It wasn't necessary at the time. That was a long time ago.

The "Hurt" report is as valid today as it was in 1981 - not much has changed - really. (Except maybe the age groups)

What should be studied is the result of the last 40-years in California and other countries that it is NOT more or less dangerous. Not that it is somehow going to cause untold collisions between motorcycles and stopped or slow moving cars unless the car encroaches on the free space between lanes. That is the MC riderÔÇÖs responsibility to avoid not the car driverÔÇÖs indecision. Although it is illegal to change lanes without signaling, it is illegal to cause an accident, it is illegal to make an unsafe lane change without clearing all parts of your vehicle, it illegal to throw objects from a vehicle (burning or not).

Hell, itÔÇÖs illegal to drive in the left lane without passing but people do that all the time.

This debate should not revolve around why 49 States decided to make that law (back then), and certainly not about whether Washington abolishes it first. It is that, the time has come to reduce traffic congestion and this is one way to do it.

No body is forcing you to ride in this manner ÔÇô although I would bet you my paycheck for a month that the minute it becomes ÔÇ£legalÔÇØ you will find yourself within the first year itÔÇÖs adopted - sliding up along some stopped cars on the freeway or dividing lanes at a stop light to get passed a bunch of stopped or very slow moving cars/trucks.

Will dumbs*its crash ÔÇô sure. They crash and get crashed into right now without the law. Just last year I had some woman change lanes on an open freeway lane (on I-5) and damn near take me out. It was nothing short of awareness that prevented that collision and maybe just maybe I got that awareness from splitting-lanes elsewhere.

It is pointless to debate with you any more, you have your opinion it is different than a majority.

And calling LEOs a moron will not get their support one was or the other. (All police stuck in a cruiser would hate this law during heavy traffic) because the rider could simply say, ÔÇ£I didnÔÇÖt know he wanted me to stop. I wasnÔÇÖt evading anyoneÔÇØ He just couldnÔÇÖt pursue me. LOL IÔÇÖve talked to WSP motor-officers and the oneÔÇÖs I have spoke with support the idea because it would make their jobs safer while trying to respond to accidents that block the road ahead. Cruiser drivers will be against it ÔÇô Motor-officers will overwhelmingly be for it. What conundrum?
 
grudging respect

You lane-splitting proponents seem to think Washington State is the only state that DOESN'T allow lane splitting - like we're a bunch of goofy hold-outs up here or something.

Where did you get this idea from?
Certainly not in this thread.

The facts from Hurt are reported and available. You have chosen not to look them up as suggested. What was included in this thread was only edited elements available on-line (edited by others, before you spout on about bias).

Sometimes you seem able to mount a rational arguement, then when anyone questions you, you seem to lose it again. That's a shame, as you are now the sole person still maintaining the anti position on this thread and it would be good to hear what the genuine arguements are, rather than having to sift your good points from your tantrum lead tirades.

The riding with fear genuinely concerns me, as it will limit your two wheel experience to being a purely functional travel alternative, rather than the pleasurable, life enhancing discovery, that the removal of fear would enable.

I do see your point. I do belive you are wrong. I do believe you have stated your case poorly. But, I respect the fact that you've stuck with it.

I'd still not want to have that drink with you though!
 
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