Tips and considerations during this time of National Emergency

[dieselyoda]

Well it started as the observation that not limiting the transmission of the virus increases the probability that it mutates into something worse. This is exactly what happened with the "Spanish" flu and we all know how that turned out.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

Oh my. I have read(red) and aware that the virus can stay on some surfaces up to several hours, cash as an example, of what I read(reed) in the news and on the internet, plastic and now cellophane products can host the virus for up to 10 hours.

Call it what you will but I never said it multiplies as fast as that damn skunk living in my back yard on any surface. It does seem to multiply exponentially in the stupid that don't believe this is a real thing.

Just a reminder, my son got it because some guy thought he could get some action. He still suffers. 6 Months later!

Split hairs! My province is #1 in Canada! WOO F---king HOO! We are #1 at something! So is the US! You are #1 as well!

Go ahead, split hairs.

If you aren't doing everything you can to protect yourself, your family/friends and strangers, your country will remain #1.

Up to you RadioFlyer. Do you want to argue grammar or post something that members here can relate to and give some guidance as to how to take action?

 

[junkjohn]

 

[gregfeeler]

Unless I’m misinterpreting this, quite possibly the scariest thing I’ve read in decades.

Is it just me, or has this thread become an echo chamber?

Reese, our collective distrust of authority has been growing for well over a decade, closer to two decades. At least a dozen years ago I was attending local club rallies while serving on the Board and would host mini-Town Hall meetings to talk about the MOA. A point I wanted to make was my belief that all leaders - MOA Board members included - need to behave and act in ways to earn the trust and confidence of their members, voters, employees, etc. So, at the first such meeting it just popped into my head to ask the audience, "Who do you trust? Please name an institution or organization - governmental, private, or religious - who's leaders you trust and have confidence in?" as a setup for this topic.

This first meeting had about 75 people, and after I asked the question it got quiet as people thought about it. Seconds go by and no one says anything, and then people start to laugh when they realize no one else can think of an answer, either. No one named a single organization! I did this several more times that year in front of a total of 250+ people and only one person named an origination - his local church. I realized then that I'd stumbled on a very serious problem.

About a year later there was an article in Time magazine about that exact subject: how we had lost confidence in those traditional sources of information like scientists, elected leaders, educators, medical providers, and even spiritual leaders. The people who should understand things and provide society with information and guidance. It went on to say that when that happens in a society people become cynical, suspicious, and susceptible to "strong man" type leaders who affirm that they are being lied to and that he or she has the answers. This was written over a decade ago about the United States.

 

[mikegalbicka]

I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

That is where my trust is placed.

 

[rangerreece]

I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

That is where my trust is placed.

...and mine.

 

[8ninety8]

We’ve (citizens informed, if being informed is even possible today), observed enough flip flops concerning this virus since February 2020, for any rational human being to be, at the least, slightly suspicious of orders from above. Just sayin. Last time any expert checked, a virus can’t be conquered, eliminated, exterminated. It morphs and comes back later. Usually in the wintertime. Kinda like trying to control the weather or climate. Or the way and what people think, speak, practice, believe, etc.

As for discussing anything, throw in the interweb social media, mainstream media, me, me, me, me, twenty four seven and the mix is suspiciously akin to two people trying to live in the same house, much less so 4.5 billion of us in the world. So yah, humans need to back off from their righteous perches occasionally. Is that possible? Is listening actively taught anywhere? Do humans actually comprehend that all humans are more the same than less? The answer is? Yep, a bigger question mark.

What I see, read, hear and feel today I have never experienced except when reading of human disasters of the past. This virus is a tiny part of the whole picture. IMHO, FWIW.

 

[gregfeeler]

We’ve (citizens informed, if being informed is even possible today), observed enough flip flops concerning this virus since February 2020, for any rational human being to be, at the least, slightly suspicious of orders from above. Just sayin. Last time any expert checked, a virus can’t be conquered, eliminated, exterminated. It morphs and comes back later. Usually in the wintertime. Kinda like trying to control the weather or climate. Or the way and what people think, speak, practice, believe, etc.

As for discussing anything, throw in the interweb social media, mainstream media, me, me, me, me, twenty four seven and the mix is suspiciously akin to two people trying to live in the same house, much less so 4.5 billion of us in the world. So yah, humans need to back off from their righteous perches occasionally. Is that possible? Is listening actively taught anywhere? Do humans actually comprehend that all humans are more the same than less? The answer is? Yep, a bigger question mark.

What I see, read, hear and feel today I have never experienced except when reading of human disasters of the past. This virus is a tiny part of the whole picture. IMHO, FWIW.

To a large degree I agree with you, with a couple of exceptions. Polio is a virus and we were able to effectively eliminate it, but that was at a time when people trusted medical experts and believed in taking vaccines. And, yes, the information we've been told about the corona virus has changed and sometimes flip flopped since this began. However, we all need to understand that this is a new disease in human history and medial and biological experts simply didn't understand it at first. It usually takes years to understand a disease, and find ways to treat it, must less develop a vaccine. But, experts were under pressure to provide answers in real time - so to me it's very understandable that the narrative would change world wide. I say all of this without adding in that the virus messaging in the US was especially confusing for non-medical reasons, IMHO.

 

[pglaves]

It depends on what medical information I want. Given the choice of who to believe about an infectious disease between Anthony Fauci and Rush Limbaugh I choose Dr. Fauci. If I wanted advice on Oxycontin addiction I might believe Limbaugh.

 

[BC1100S]

To a large degree I agree with you, with a couple of exceptions. Polio is a virus and we were able to effectively eliminate it, but that was at a time when people trusted medical experts and believed in taking vaccines. And, yes, the information we've been told about the corona virus has changed and sometimes flip flopped since this began. However, we all need to understand that this is a new disease in human history and medial and biological experts simply didn't understand it at first. It usually takes years to understand a disease, and find ways to treat it, must less develop a vaccine. But, experts were under pressure to provide answers in real time - so to me it's very understandable that the narrative would change world wide. I say all of this without adding in that the virus messaging in the US was especially confusing for non-medical reasons, IMHO.

Nicely put.

 

[BC1100S]

This just in....

The guy who is famous for singing the national anthem at Vancouver Canucks hockey games just lent his fame to the anti-mask, anti-vax movement by performing at a demonstration against masks and social distancing. In response to tweets on this demonstration, the owner of the Canucks (Francesco Aquilini) tweeted, "...the former singer for the Vancouver Canucks."

There are consequences to the things we do.

 

[akbeemer]

To a large degree I agree with you, with a couple of exceptions. Polio is a virus and we were able to effectively eliminate it, but that was at a time when people trusted medical experts and believed in taking vaccines. And, yes, the information we've been told about the corona virus has changed and sometimes flip flopped since this began. However, we all need to understand that this is a new disease in human history and medial and biological experts simply didn't understand it at first. It usually takes years to understand a disease, and find ways to treat it, must less develop a vaccine. But, experts were under pressure to provide answers in real time - so to me it's very understandable that the narrative would change world wide. I say all of this without adding in that the virus messaging in the US was especially confusing for non-medical reasons, IMHO.

The reason it took so long to find a vaccine for polio is that people had a very deep distrust of the doctors working on it. In 1935 vaccines were tested that killed children (Maurice Brodie & John Kolmer). Until Salk came along researchers were afraid to even try to find a vaccine because of the stigma attached to it. There are other more recent vaccine failures. The Cutter polio vaccine in the 50's; a failed measels vaccine in the 60s that made many children sick and in the hospital; a vaccine for RSV (respiratory syncytial virus) in the 60s that gave children an enhanced form of the virus and killed two. There is still no vaccine for RSV.

The reason there are not newer incidences is that we instituted stringent testing and adopted a trust but verify approach. To some degree we have abandoned that approach with covid 19.

 

[8ninety8]

For myself, it’s not who or what or believe for whatever reason, rather, it’s filtering many sources of information then applying some individual common sense from all.

As an example, we can read in less than 30 minutes the histories of polio, Spanish flu, Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, Swine flu, MERS, and COVID, on the WEB. Taking into account the sources and our own biases, we get an individual schemata on how to cope as intelligently as possible throughout each day.

Each of us has had some extraordinary tragedy this year, if not only the mental angst/strain of the bombardment of alarm. Fill in blank. For me, it’s been so very important to compartmentalize the various pieces of the the puzzle of living so as not to go bonkers. I’ve been reading many sources of psychological coping with stress in general, and COVID specifically and the fragility of life in general.

Every day, I mean EVERY day, I go to my selected county park for exercise, fresh air, communication with nature, my ID, my God, my plan for the day, my soliloquy, my process of achieving what Peterson calls, my larger goal. If permitting, no snow, ice, temps above 32F, I ride my bicycle. This personal reflection time compartment is, IMHO, like medicine, better than any pill.

 

[gregfeeler]

The reason it took so long to find a vaccine for polio is that people had a very deep distrust of the doctors working on it. In the 1920s a vaccine was released that killed many children. Until Salk came along researchers were afraid to even try to find a vaccine because of the stigma attached to it. There are other more recent vaccine failures. The Cutter polio vaccine in the 50's; a failed measels vaccine in the 60s that made many children sick and in the hospital; a vaccine for RSV (respiratory syncytial virus) in the 60s that gave children an enhanced form of the virus and killed two. There is still no vaccine for RSV.

The reason there are not newer incidences is that we instituted stringent testing and adopted a trust but verify approach. To some degree we have abandoned that approach with covid 19.

"The reason there are not newer incidences is that we instituted stringent testing and adopted a trust but verify approach. To some degree we have abandoned that approach with covid 19."

I'd be curious why you say that? All the communications from all the pharmaceutical companies (at least in the US, Canada, and the UK) that I have heard have stated that they are following all appropriate testing protocols. Has it been hurried? Certainly, but that doesn't prove that corners have been cut. However, I'm also a "trust but verify" person, so will watch as the vaccines are administered. By the time they get to me, if these vaccines are creating an "I Am Legend" would, we'll all know.

 

[gregfeeler]

For myself, it’s not who or what or believe for whatever reason, rather, it’s filtering many sources of information then applying some individual common sense from all.

As an example, we can read in less than 30 minutes the histories of polio, Spanish flu, Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, SARS, Swine flu, MERS, and COVID, on the WEB. Taking into account the sources and our own biases, we get an individual schemata on how to cope as intelligently as possible throughout each day.

Each of us has had some extraordinary tragedy this year, if not only the mental angst/strain of the bombardment of alarm. Fill in blank. For me, it’s been so very important to compartmentalize the various pieces of the the puzzle of living so as not to go bonkers. I’ve been reading many sources of psychological coping with stress in general, and COVID specifically and the fragility of life in general.

Every day, I mean EVERY day, I go to my selected county park for exercise, fresh air, communication with nature, my ID, my God, my plan for the day, my soliloquy, my process of achieving what Peterson calls, my larger goal. If permitting, no snow, ice, temps above 32F, I ride my bicycle. This personal reflection time compartment is, IMHO, like medicine, better than any pill.

That is just excellent! You seem to have found great ways of dealing with the current world situations in ways that should be beneficial at any time.

 

[pglaves]

Well, I am 75 with COPD. So I will probably be in the third tier of folks to receive the vaccine, after medical workers and nursing home occupants; followed by pork processing plant workers (we have to get our Spam you know), nail salon workers, hair dressers and other essential workers. About 70% of the work force is classified essential.

So as far as I'm concerned the more deniers the better so I can get vaccinated sooner. Then after a whole bunch of deniers become diers they will start getting vaccinated and we can reach true herd immunity.

 

[gregfeeler]

Well, I am 75 with COPD. So I will probably be in the third tier of folks to receive the vaccine, after medical workers and nursing home occupants; followed by pork processing plant workers (we have to get our Spam you know), nail salon workers, hair dressers and other essential workers.

So as far as I'm concerned the more deniers the better so I can get vaccinated sooner. Then after a whole bunch of deniers become diers they will start getting vaccinated and we can reach true herd immunity.

Hahahaha!! I laugh because I had similar thoughts running through my head earlier to day, especially the "more for me" side of the deniers.

 

[akbeemer]

"The reason there are not newer incidences is that we instituted stringent testing and adopted a trust but verify approach. To some degree we have abandoned that approach with covid 19."

I'd be curious why you say that? All the communications from all the pharmaceutical companies (at least in the US, Canada, and the UK) that I have heard have stated that they are following all appropriate testing protocols. Has it been hurried? Certainly, but that doesn't prove that corners have been cut. However, I'm also a "trust but verify" person, so will watch as the vaccines are administered. By the time they get to me, if these vaccines are creating an "I Am Legend" would, we'll all know.

The key deviation from normal proceedure is the greatly reduced time and the resulting need to rely on the pharmaceutical companies and the data they provide with less than normal scrutiny. There are many billions of dollars to be made with the vaccine and the pressure on researchers is certainly immense. The temptation to cut corners and fudge data is real because the rewards are so high. A year ago I suspect most people had a dim view of pharmaceutical companies because of their pricing and marketing practices. Today we look to them as our saviors and can only pray they are up to the task. The people who are supposed to do the verification are not being given the normal time to verify. I understand why this is being done in a hurry and that risks must be taken to save lives from the disease and the results of shutdowns and economic ruin, but we need to be prepared for problems. Perhaps they will not work as advertised or cause health issues; I certainly hope not and I will take one when offered unless problems arise.

 

[gregfeeler]

The key deviation from normal proceedure is the greatly reduced time and the resulting need to rely on the pharmaceutical companies and the data they provide with less than normal scrutiny. There are many billions of dollars to be made with the vaccine and the pressure on researchers is certainly immense. The temptation to cut corners and fudge data is real because the rewards are so high. A year ago I suspect most people had a dim view of pharmaceutical companies because of their pricing and marketing practices. Today we look to them as our saviors and can only pray they are up to the task. The people who are supposed to do the verification are not being given the normal time to verify. I understand why this is being done in a hurry and that risks must be taken to save lives from the disease and the results of shutdowns and economic ruin, but we need to be prepared for problems. Perhaps they will not work as advertised or cause health issues; I certainly hope not and I will take one when offered unless problems arise.

Well said, and I agree.

 

[Paul_F]

Below is a link to an article that explains how the research of a Canadian back in 2008 has been used by pharmaceutical companies to shorten the time needed to develop vaccines.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/wi...on-my-radar-says-moderna-co-founder-1.5812186

 

[Wkoppa]

To a large degree I agree with you, with a couple of exceptions. Polio is a virus and we were able to effectively eliminate it, but that was at a time when people trusted medical experts and believed in taking vaccines. And, yes, the information we've been told about the corona virus has changed and sometimes flip flopped since this began. However, we all need to understand that this is a new disease in human history and medial and biological experts simply didn't understand it at first. It usually takes years to understand a disease, and find ways to treat it, must less develop a vaccine. But, experts were under pressure to provide answers in real time - so to me it's very understandable that the narrative would change world wide. I say all of this without adding in that the virus messaging in the US was especially confusing for non-medical reasons, IMHO.

I would like to add that Polio remains to be a significant problem and provides a lesson on our Covid-19 future. The world has aggressively been trying to put Polio away for over 50 years and have it mainly down to two countries, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Last year they performed 350 million Polio vaccinations for those two countries and some other hot spots. It would appear that we have billions of Covid-19 vaccinations in front of us before containing Covid-19. Eliminating Covid-19 will be much more difficult.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449