Timing question...

[AnnapolisAirhead]

It's been a loooong time since I messed with points. I set the points on my '72 R60/5 and now it won't fire. Starter spins fine, electric connections all cleaned and grease.

New plugs, points, condensor, new NGK wires, fresh gas, rebuilt carbs. I had it running after I did the carbs, but I checked the points and now it just spins and only tries to fire once in a while.

So, I'm thinking its timing. Could someone refresh my memory on how to basically set the timing without the engine running? Sort of a chicken and egg thing...

 

[LOSTBOY]

Timing

Did you reinstall the ignition cover and pinch the points lead? Did you have the camshaft in the right position when you set them? Did you clean the points with contact cleaner after you set them?

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Did you reinstall the ignition cover and pinch the points lead? Did you have the camshaft in the right position when you set them? Did you clean the points with contact cleaner after you set them?

You mean the front cover? If so, then no. Its still off.

Camshaft position, hmm. Do you mean move the flywheel to top dead center, and then set the points?

Yes, I cleaned the points with 2000 grit sandpaper lightly then contact cleaner.

 

[LOSTBOY]

"OT" is close, but you want to find the position where the points are farthest open. This is (roughly) with one end of the advance unit's plate/bar at 11:00 o'clock and the other at 5:00. I usually remove the 6mm nut that hold the advance unit on, pull the advance forward slightly and turn the advance independently of the camshaft with my fingers.

 

[dennisdarrow]

Are you getting a tiny little spark each time the points open? It's hard to see but should be there. For me, I use the correct size feeler guage from the factory tool set to set the points. I leave the advance on and just reach behind it. Tight fit; but SAVES THE FEAR OF STRIPPING OUT THE VERY EASY TO STRIP NUT THAT HOLDS THE ANDVANCE UNIT ON THE END OF THE CAM. WATCH OUT FOR THAT.

By the way, when you have the advance mechanism off you might want to get some of the proper grease and lube it up a bit. Put just a bit of grease on the felt there by the points also. Your owners manual specifies these types and a tube will last your's and my lifetime.

For static timing I use a VOM. One lead on the hot wire to the points and the other to ground. Some folks use a little home made test light.

Turn on the ignition key. Watching the light/VOM rotate the flywheel SLOWLY. When it just gets to the "S" the 12V circuit should break. Meaning the light goes out or the VOM reads 0 volts.

Barely loosen the points plate with the 2 screws to do this and then tighten them back up and check again. When adjusting the points, there are 2 little notches to fit a screwdriver into to move the points plate a bit. Do NOT loosen things up a lot. Just enought to move them. At times I have used a screwdriver and small ballpeen to just nudge them barely.

Anyeway.........God Bless......Dennis

 

[sumran]

It might be good to check for spark at the plugs. Even if the timing is off, you should still get a good spark if everything else is right. If so, proceed with timing. If not...

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

It might be good to check for spark at the plugs. Even if the timing is off, you should still get a good spark if everything else is right. If so, proceed with timing. If not...

I definitely have good spark Randy. That was my first thought. It's odd though, even though it sat for 10+ years the bike started but wouldn't idle right after I rebuilt the carbs. The points are new, as in zero miles. As soon as I went to set them to spec, I can't start it anymore. (I yeah, I remembered to disconnect the battery first thankfully).

Are you getting a tiny little spark each time the points open? It's hard to see but should be there. For me, I use the correct size feeler guage from the factory tool set to set the points. I leave the advance on and just reach behind it. Tight fit; but SAVES THE FEAR OF STRIPPING OUT THE VERY EASY TO STRIP NUT THAT HOLDS THE ANDVANCE UNIT ON THE END OF THE CAM. WATCH OUT FOR THAT.

I left the advance unit on and was able to get behind there, tight fit indeed. I haven't checked for spark. Good idea.

By the way, when you have the advance mechanism off you might want to get some of the proper grease and lube it up a bit.

For static timing I use a VOM. One lead on the hot wire to the points and the other to ground. Some folks use a little home made test light.

Turn on the ignition key. Watching the light/VOM rotate the flywheel SLOWLY. When it just gets to the "S" the 12V circuit should break. Meaning the light goes out or the VOM reads 0 volts.

Thanks Dennis, that's the technique I was looking to find.

"OT" is close, but you want to find the position where the points are farthest open. This is (roughly) with one end of the advance unit's plate/bar at 11:00 o'clock and the other at 5:00. I usually remove the 6mm nut that hold the advance unit on, pull the advance forward slightly and turn the advance independently of the camshaft with my fingers.

Ok, good info to check.

Many thanks gang. I love this place. Now if they only served up a frosty at the end of the day...

 

[globalrider]

I checked the points and now it just spins and only tries to fire once in a while.

So, I'm thinking its timing.

What do you mean by "tries to fire once in a while". Are you refering to the spark plug or the engine? If the spark plug is only "firing" or "sparking" once in a while, that has nothing to do with timing.

Check your installation and/or your components. I once installed a brand new set of Bosch points in a VW Beetle and after the installation, it wouldn't fire. It ended up being the new set of points...they were a dud.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Sorry, I meant the engine tries to fire. The spark is clean.

 

[8ninety8]

another story out of the past.....

In '84 I dual plugged my 60/5, bored it out once cleaned up the heads getting ready to ride out to Missoula. Second day on the road couldn't get it started and the third day I barely made it into the rally. It wouldn't run anywhere except around 4K rpm!

Got the tech help tent, told them the problem, they said, your points are not properly set! Stupid me set the gap with the pistons at top dead center as I was putting everything back together. Funny how the bike ran all the way out to Montana in such a state of tune.

Another time I found a 75/6 by the roadside torn apart with a fried coil. Two guys were riding this bike across the country on one cylinder! They were heading to NY I couldn't help them outside of recommending a dealer. BMWs are incredibly tough bikes. That's my story and sticking to it.

 

[BENWAY999]

if you dont have a vom, timing light etc, you can hear the spark plug crack when it fires, or see it if they are out [and grounded]

they should fire at the S mark.

changing the points / gap will also change the timing.

set the points, reset the timing.

you can use an allen key /socket on the alternator bolt to turn it by hand.[ clockwise from the front] some prefer to use the rear wheel. with the bike in gear.

do not use the nut on the cam.

hope that helps

 

[globalrider]

In '84 I dual plugged my 60/5.

Did you retard your idle timing and limit the amount of ignition advance?

 

[VANZEN]

road tech

back in the day & on the road
the static timing tool of choice was 2 lengths of spare wire & the tail-light bulb.
point gap is not critical ÔÇô foil from a cigarette pack was used.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

back in the day & on the road
the static timing tool of choice was 2 lengths of spare wire & the tail-light bulb.
point gap is not critical ÔÇô foil from a cigarette pack was used.

Now we're talkin'

In today's world, they tell ya not to smoke, to call AAA for a tow to your no-so-friendly, $105/hour dealer to get ya back on the road. I suppose that's one of the many reasons why we ride airheads...I just needed some refreshers. Haven't set points since my '67 Thunderchicken and '64 Corvair (heck, it even came with the optional aircraft seatbelts). Why, oh why did I sell them?

 

[dpmonk]

tool for setting points gap

Read about this on Duane Ausherman's website. I bought one and it makes
setting gap real easy.

Good luck on the toaster.

repairhead@sbcglobal.net

 

[VANZEN]

Read about this on Duane Ausherman's website. I bought one and it makes setting gap real easy.

one of these from Jeff Trapp's tool page ?:

COOL TOOL !!

if'n I only had points​

 

[8ninety8]

As I remember...

It was a long time ago GlobalRider, but I did follow the Cutter dual plugging manual. I'm sure the Tech said my points were closed up and that is why the power band was so narrow?? Anywho when the ACCEL unit crashed I put the ignition back to stock. I still have the pieces in a box with another amp. I got the parts in a kit from Walus for about 160 bucks. The bike was traded for some electrical work in my house. I never like the toaster tank and the 600 pinged like crazy.

 

[AnnapolisAirhead]

Toaster Timing Update

I cleaned up all the connections (and rebuilt the petcocks while I had the tank off).

I also bought one of Jeff Trapp's points tools. It does make things much easier. Then I took an 1156 bulb socket, a couple lengths of wire and two alligator clips (and a little cage around the bulb with a coat hanger). Turns out my spark is happening too soon, just before the "S" mark. It's even evident by laying both plugs on the heads (as Woodsteel suggested) and as the "S" mark approaches, I can hear/see the plugs spark.

I set the timing so the spark starts at the "S" mark now.

I stepped away for a few days. Today I was double checking all the electrical connections, before I put the tank back on and as I touched the starter relay it sparked (ignition was "off", key sitting on the bench). Surprised me. I disconnected the negative battery cable and removed the starter. Turns out that the tiny circuit board inside had come out of the housing and the contact inside was covered in white powder. So I've ordered a new one form ChicagoBMW (cheaper, but it'll be at least 1.5 weeks...ugh).

This may not be all my problems, but it can't be good so its being replaced. Oddly, after I ordered, I decided to check out Rick's Motorad Electrik site...he lists starter relays, but they are only $10.00...Bob's, MaxBMW and Chicago were all between 55 and 70 or so--so $10 can't be the right one?? I called Rick, left a message and am waiting for his return call (I need several things from him).

So, the thought plickens. It's cleaned up nicely though...ready to drop the wheels, clean the spokes, etc. and put the Metzers on soon.