The ONLY way to See the Alps...

[PGlaves]

I am truly sorry your wife is so domineering.

 

[RBEmerson]

TMI alert!

Not so much that as emphatically knowing her own mind. And I emphatically knowing mine (as if my posts here don't occasionally show that...). We don't always see eye to eye. Marriages are like that.

One last TMI and lets move on (my fault for venting): We observed our 48th anniversary in December (while driving to Berlin, celebrating with lunch at a rest stop cafe - woohoo!). She is the center of my universe and I hers. 'Nuff said.

 

[nelliott]

TMI alert!

Not so much that as emphatically knowing her own mind. And I emphatically knowing mine (as if my posts here don't occasionally show that...). We don't always see eye to eye. Marriages are like that.

One last TMI and lets move on (my fault for venting): We observed our 48th anniversary in December (while driving to Berlin, celebrating with lunch at a rest stop cafe - woohoo!). She is the center of my universe and I hers. 'Nuff said.

Your insistent use of short txt language leaves me baffled. Why on earth don't you spell it out.
I am not wasting my time searching for meanings, to me it is annoying.

 

[RBEmerson]

I suggest reviewing your signature line for unclear acronyms... And commercial advertising, possibly out of policy bounds. Be very cautious about glass houses...

 

[RBEmerson]

The following is in a similar thread on AdvRider.

Planning resources...

I finally got my hands on a copy of "100 Alpenpässe mit dem Motorrad" (100 Alpine Passes with a Motorcycle) by Heinz E. Studt. As the name shows, this book is in German. Nonetheless, as a resource for planning, it's far and away better than John Hermann's "Motorcycle Journeys Through the Alps". Add in "100 Neue Alpenpässe mit dem Motorrad" (100 New Alpine Passes with a Motorcycle) and "Die Schösten Panarama Alpenstrassen" (The Most Beautiful Alpine Panorama Roads) and if you can't decide, with their help, where to go, nobody can help you. There is some overlap between the books, but not a lot. You can download all of the routes in the books. They're password protected by requiring a type-in using the text in the respective book. The downloaded file is named as a .jar (Java script) file. It's not, it's a compressed archive that apps like 7-zip can open. It will extract one GPX file for each route in a book. Those files can be fed to the mapping app of your choice.

Language... There's an excellent translating dictionary site, leo.org, that can get you through at least making sens of the info table for each location (crack the code for one, and you're 95% there for all entries). Throw leo a word in German and you'll get a number of English options (nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc.) and often spoken examples. There are, of course, also on-line sentence translators to help with understanding the content. All of the books can be found through Amazon. Search for one of the books and follow the small "new&used" link to find sellers under Amazon's usual usurious price. Expect roughly three weeks for delivery as often the books are shipped from the UK and shipped "media parcel" in the US (at speeds making snails look quick).

Hermann... I've used his third edition and fifth edition and find them seriously lacking. He lists zillions of passes, but rarely maps them out clearly and his commentary can be, at best, sparse and sometimes misleading. For example, Stelvio - no mention that the road on one side has 48 hairpins, just that there are a lot. Your "a lot" and his may not be the same, for good or bad.

He has a fondness for spendy hotels listed as "biker friendly" or "biker meeting points" (there are German guides that exclusively flog these places - shudder). To be clear, most places have little concern, pro or con, about a guest riding up on a bike. It's common for smaller places to offer a place to store a bike in a garage or locked location. He's big on the places, on the road, that are featured as biker gathering places (biker treff or töff treff). Fine if you're gregarious to a fault and have no problem with afterwards probably riding ...um... tuned up. IMNSHO these places should be avoided like grim death.

I can't verify his French or Italian commentary, but his German is... middle-grade tourist at best. He, by his own admission, finds the letters ä ö ü quaint and not used, so he doesn't use them. Good luck finding Splugenpass or Fluelapass, for example. He might as well drop a o u from his English while he's at it. To be clear, Spluegenpass and Flueelapass (ae oe ue in place of ä ö ü) is quite accepted - Hermann doesn't use them, either. One other character comes and goes in daily German: ß or "sharp S". It's often seen in Straße (street), Grüßen (greetings), as examples. Double S has effectively replaced ß, giving Strasse and Grussen - don't sweat it. German capitalizes nouns, BTW. (As a side note, I have a German qwertz keyboard as well as my laptop's default qwerty. It beats using "Character Map" when writing German words.)

And that's the name of that tune.

 

[RBEmerson]

The week-long tour route is basically complete. The 7 days work out this way:

1. Pick up bike, Munich to Andermatt CH
2. Ride around Andermatt area, bagging passes
3. Andermatt to Prutz AT via Silvretta Panoramastrasse
4. Loop including two glaciers and some passes
5. Loop including Stelvio and still more passes
6. Prutz to Zell am See AT via Brunico IT and Grossglockner Hoschstrasse
7. 175-180 km ride back to Munich & turn in bike

Absent getting lost, taking detours, etc. the planned routing totals about 2300 km. Now for the icky part...

Bike Travel Services in Munich (top contender for the rental) only allows 2100 km/wk (300 km/day - the overage charge is €0.82/km!!!). Curiously, short term rentals get 350 km/day. I suggested I'd better off with a 3 day rental and extending it by 5 days (€150 "premium over 1 week's rental). I also said that it seemed as though I was being penalized for the 1 week rental. As things stand at the moment, they said once they have the dates (3-10 July) there might(!) be a chance of miles-free at (no doubt) additional cost. That's all very "show me yours, then I'll show you mine".

My suspicion (and hope!!) is things will sort themselves out, and... ride on!

 

[Rinty]

...Ride around Andermatt area, bagging passes....

I can't find my book right now, but I remember Hermann rating 3 of the 4 passes in the area as 5 star, and the other one, 4 star.

So that'll be a good place to start.

 

[RBEmerson]

There are a number of "name" passes in the area: St. Gotthard / Tremola, Grimselpass & Furkapass (almost combined), Naufenpass, Sustenpass, and Lukmanier Pass are all on a day trip route. Oberalppass is east of Andermatt; I'll cross that coming and going.

I also have a day trip from Prutz that includes Stelvio, Umbrailpass, Ofen or Fuornpass (BTDT just a high hill along the way), Albulapass, and Flüelapass. Woohoo!

All of this is, of course, subject to weather, etc., etc.

A note about Hermann. Compared to German sources (Heinz Studt's guides are very good), he tends to be a little(!) on the brief side and has minimal maps at best, has some very odd notions about written German (e.g., Flüelapass becomes Fluelapass or, if you don't have an ü, Flueelapass - spelling counts when doing searches), and pushes biker-friendly hotels (hotels are almost always spendy compared to a landhaus or pension or even Air B&B; I can't think of a place that won't accept one or more riders) and bikertreffs or törfftreffs (meeting places AKA a place to get a shine on before riding on - dumb and DUI's are not treated lightly). There's a lot than that to be seen and experienced! The point being that anyone planning a DIY trip should invest some time getting advice from the renter and folks who've been there. For tours, ask detailed questions about the trip's itinerary and how the company does a tour before you throw down $5-10K for the tour.

On a tangent... I don't recommend a first-time visitor do a DIY trip. Operating any vehicle in Europe is just different enough to take a few days to assimilate the experience. Right of way rules are different (more sane, IMHO). Understanding speed limits (where you can push it and where you cannot). Automated cameras are just common enough to be worth expecting (and the ones in 50 k/h and 30 k/h areas have zero tolerance - rental car? don't worry, they'll forward the ticket to you). In Switzerland, for example, you must pay on the spot (credit cards are OK) and the fines are on a sliding, non-linear scale - do something a little wrong, pay a lot, way over the line, you could max out your card and/or you might spend a night or more where you didn't make a reservation.

The riding really is completely different once you get near the Alps. The valleys are usually BTDT (but can be v. twisty for long stretches), but the pass roads are like nothing you've ever seen. I've seen the brain dead get by, but it takes skill to get it right. So... better to learn in a tour, with some hope of advice and counsel.

 

[RBEmerson]

The week-long tour route is basically complete. The 7 days work out this way:

1. Pick up bike, Munich to Andermatt CH
2. Ride around Andermatt area, bagging passes
3. Andermatt to Prutz AT via Silvretta Panoramastrasse
4. Loop including two glaciers and some passes
5. Loop including Stelvio and still more passes
6. Prutz to Zell am See AT via Brunico IT and Grossglockner Hoschstrasse
7. 175-180 km ride back to Munich & turn in bike

Absent getting lost, taking detours, etc. the planned routing totals about 2300 km. [/...]

To accommodate some a day of "together time", the schedule has been re-arranged, and a dum-dum has been sorted out.

1. Mon. Pick up bike, Munich to Mittenwald DE
2. Tue. Mittenwald to Andermatt CH
3. Wed. Ride around Andermatt area, bagging passes
4. Thu. Andermatt to Prutz AT via Silvretta Panoramastrasse
5. Fri. Loop including two glaciers and some passes
6. Sat. Loop including Stelvio and still more passes
7. Sun. Prutz to Lofer AT via Brunico IT and Grossglockner Hoschstrasse
8. Mon. 175-180 km ride back to Munich & turn in bike

I totally missed that Mon-Mon thing and went for Mon-Sun. Doh...

Mittenwald is a nifty tourist town really worth seeing. The total trip includes Chris and her sister and brother. We'll have some time in Mittenwald together, and again in Lofer. They go off to, we think, Italian lakes for the week. The trip to Mittenwald is easy-peasy. I was able to add two "Easter eggs". One is in a suburb of Munich - Graefelfing, where my school had a partnership with the high school there (easy detour, wonder how much it's changed since I was there in '57 - lomg story not worth the detail here). The other is the Wieskirche, in the start of the touristy area. Briefly, excellent Baroque period church effectively sitting in a meadow (Wies=meadow, kirche=church). We saw it maybe 5 years ago and, for some reason, it lit my lights. Time to try it again.

Lofer is down the road from Zell am See, and it's where my b-i-l goes skiing. Fun to see it with someone who knows it.

 

[irishrover14]

alps tour

Or, if you are lucky you can win a great tour. Last year in Billings I won an Adriatic Alps tour that I'm taking next month. So far I'm very impressed with Adriatic Moto Tour operation. I just received a book with all the ride information and maps. They have been very responsive to email requests. I'll give you a ride report after I get back.

You never know when you'll have the winning ticket.

Last year wife and I did the Top of the Alps tour with Adriatic Moto Tours and we were totally satisfied with the service and experience. Accommodations was 4 to 5 star, food ( breakfast & dinner ) included was excellent . It definitely is not a trip for the inexperienced or faint of heart rider just as the brochure describes, YOU will be riding some of the hairiest switch backs you have ever seen, and they go on forever, some days you look back and say Wow I can't believe I made it. Expect to be totally worn out and ready for a nap at the end of nearly everyday. We went the last week of July and it was high 80's to 90' degrees every day. I rode the R1200RT it was more than capable but next time I would use the 1200GS. my wife doesn't ride so she was my pannier, If I was to do it again alone I would get the 800GS its smaller and more important LIGHTER and it would be much easier throwing it around in those 180 degree switch backs. We started out with 9 riders by the 2nd day 2 dropped out they said the ride was just too hard and dangerous for them, and believe me it was, I personally saw both of them nearly crash and get seriously get hurt more than once in the first two days. If you have any Questions I'll be happy to answer them

 

[RBEmerson]

What were some of the passes you saw (hard to name them all, I know)?

Also, I'm interested in hearing your reactions to the RT.

 

[irishrover14]

Alps trip

What were some of the passes you saw (hard to name them all, I know)?

Also, I'm interested in hearing your reactions to the RT.

I know I'm going to misspell a few and also forget a few but I'll try Passo di stelvio,the Grossglockner, the one from the james bond movie furrkapass, sustain pass, all through and around the dolimites the Splugeenpass the Ofenpass, Umbrail pass, the passo di Gavia, and I believe a few more. Now about the RT, Awesome motorcycle! Definitely in my opinion a do everything bike as far as street riding is concerned. I also own a Harley roadking and a Ducati Multistrada I just bought a 2014 RT mainly because of how great the bike was in the ALPS. I will never ride the Roadking again It is currently for sale, the wife wants nothing to do with it after riding on the RT She even prefers the Ducati over the Harley and to be honest after riding the RT I am also selling the Multistrada I just don't need it, the RT is a lot more comfortable and it has all the power I need. The RT for me is the best fit for riding here in the USA with all the miles of interstate we have it just eats up the interstate and can give a exciting ride in the twistes as well and only weighs 600lbs and that's a BIG plus

 

[RBEmerson]

That's an impressive pass list. Stelvio gets a lot of press, particularly for the 48 hairpin turns. Out of curiosity, I counted the turns on La Tremola's south side, and came up with 23 - 30 (depends on when you count the road as no longer La Tremola). NTL, between the cobbles and the distance between turns, I'm tempted to say La Tremola might be more challenging, although much shorter. OTOH, there's nowhere near the circus there is on top of Stelvio. I was hard-pressed to find a place to park at lunchtime on a Friday.

If you ever get the urge to do the trip on your own or with a few friends (not unreasonable to do), here's one planning tip about accommodations: it helps to know the hotel stars refer to the amount or type of amenities the hotels have (indoor pool, outdoor pool, sauna, etc.). TripAdvisor, among other sources, if very helpful with sorting out the "sounds good" from the "is good".

One curious thing we've encountered: we book a reservation through booking.com. We show up, have a great time, and when it comes time to settle the bill, the host says "I can cancel the booking.com reservation, and give you a less expensive rate". This isn't a scam. The hotel doesn't have to pay the fee to booking.com, we get a break (very real), and the hotel gets a better profit margin by eliminating the booking.com fee from the money they take in. At some point, I'm almost certain booking.com will react to these funny cancellations. Get it while you can.

What's your reaction to the Dolomites?

The '15 "wethead" RT I rode last year was a huge disappointment. It handled well, but the transmission sounded and felt like parts were about to pop out. Since the motor demanded to be kept at or above 3K at all times, that meant a ton of shifting. Not Fun. OTOH, I had an '09 RT dealer's loaner a while back, and liked it very much. Aside from the super-wide after-market saddle that made flatfooting for even me (34" inseam plus boots) a problem. The fart-can muffler was a pain in the [r]ear. But other than that, it was probably the smoothest RT I've ever ridden. The '15 didn't come close.

Any way you look at it, though, welcome to the flat twin world. [/big grin]

Er, not to be pesky but... ---> panniers:

Since you now own a fine German motorcycle, the correct German word for "gal in back" is "sozia" (if it's a guy in back, "sozius"). The sozia is not the guy waving his arms during a training drill...

 

[irishrover14]

That's an impressive pass list. Stelvio gets a lot of press, particularly for the 48 hairpin turns. Out of curiosity, I counted the turns on La Tremola's south side, and came up with 23 - 30 (depends on when you count the road as no longer La Tremola). NTL, between the cobbles and the distance between turns, I'm tempted to say La Tremola might be more challenging, although much shorter. OTOH, there's nowhere near the circus there is on top of Stelvio. I was hard-pressed to find a place to park at lunchtime on a Friday.

If you ever get the urge to do the trip on your own or with a few friends (not unreasonable to do), here's one planning tip about accommodations: it helps to know the hotel stars refer to the amount or type of amenities the hotels have (indoor pool, outdoor pool, sauna, etc.). TripAdvisor, among other sources, if very helpful with sorting out the "sounds good" from the "is good".

One curious thing we've encountered: we book a reservation through booking.com. We show up, have a great time, and when it comes time to settle the bill, the host says "I can cancel the booking.com reservation, and give you a less expensive rate". This isn't a scam. The hotel doesn't have to pay the fee to booking.com, we get a break (very real), and the hotel gets a better profit margin by eliminating the booking.com fee from the money they take in. At some point, I'm almost certain booking.com will react to these funny cancellations. Get it while you can.

What's your reaction to the Dolomites?

The '15 "wethead" RT I rode last year was a huge disappointment. It handled well, but the transmission sounded and felt like parts were about to pop out. Since the motor demanded to be kept at or above 3K at all times, that meant a ton of shifting. Not Fun. OTOH, I had an '09 RT dealer's loaner a while back, and liked it very much. Aside from the super-wide after-market saddle that made flatfooting for even me (34" inseam plus boots) a problem. The fart-can muffler was a pain in the [r]ear. But other than that, it was probably the smoothest RT I've ever ridden. The '15 didn't come close.

Any way you look at it, though, welcome to the flat twin world. [/big grin]

Er, not to be pesky but... ---> panniers:

Since you now own a fine German motorcycle, the correct German word for "gal in back" is "sozia" (if it's a guy in back, "sozius"). The sozia is not the guy waving his arms during a training drill...

The Dolomites were fantastic very beautiful scenery and the ride to the top from what I remember was harder than Stelvio, What makes Stelvio so hard is the traffic and bad drivers!!! We were lucky the weather was perfect and we got there early and the traffic was light. I rode a 2014 RT there and it was very smooth shifting and the one I own now is also a 2014 and it is also very smooth. But I do have to get use to the lack of bottom end torque compared to my Harley or Ducati both those bikes you barely give it any throttle and they pull away, The RT you have to gas it more and slip the clutch it seems or it will stall, I'm assuming all flat twins are that way its just something I have to get used too. The RT I have now came with a Russell day long after market seat and I hate it, I would rather have the stock seat after all that riding in the Alps the stock seat never hurt me. I only have a 30" inseam and I'm on my tippy toes with the Russell seat even in the low position

 

[RBEmerson]

Stelvios is... Stelvio. I think it brings people who shouldn't be there, people who think they rule there, and a few sane people like us. It's got a Name, and people want to show they're bad enough to humble it, or they're curious about all of the talk about it, or maybe they just want to join the party. Hard to know...

I'm about to put together my video from Silvretta Panoramastrasse (western Austria). There was a classic car rally running at the same time I was there. The video shows more than one idiot (the soundtrack quotes me as saying "effin' idiot") coming at me while well over the center line in a straight piece of road. Grrr... Anyway, I guess they're out there elsewhere, too.

The Dolomites remind me of the fantastic landscrape DaVinci used in the background of the Mona Lisa.

I didn't have a chance to try more than a few passes, Passo di Gardina, Passo di Valparola, Passo di Falzarego, Passo Tre Croci, and possibly another, not in my records. Of the lot, Valparola was the only one where I stopped to take some pictures. Otherwise... meh. They're there - not much to add. I was disappointed to see the passes were mostly just big parking lots for the ski season. In general, they didn't compare with the passes I saw earlier. It's a pity, as the scenery, on the road, was like nothing else I saw.

I'\m not an expert on the way boxers work, but, yeah, they seem to want to be wound up a bit to keep them happy. A friend has an '07 that needs that, the '09 loaner needed that, and wetheads I've ridden in the US and the Alps need that. Bottom line, if that's what makes them happy, then there it is. The problem with the bike from Edelweiss was that just maybe that gearbox really was coming apart. Anyway, I "rode it like I stole it" and things worked out.

 

[irishrover14]

alps ride

Stelvios is... Stelvio. I think it brings people who shouldn't be there, people who think they rule there, and a few sane people like us. It's got a Name, and people want to show they're bad enough to humble it, or they're curious about all of the talk about it, or maybe they just want to join the party. Hard to know...

I'm about to put together my video from Silvretta Panoramastrasse (western Austria). There was a classic car rally running at the same time I was there. The video shows more than one idiot (the soundtrack quotes me as saying "effin' idiot") coming at me while well over the center line in a straight piece of road. Grrr... Anyway, I guess they're out there elsewhere, too.

The Dolomites remind me of the fantastic landscrape DaVinci used in the background of the Mona Lisa.

I didn't have a chance to try more than a few passes, Passo di Gardina, Passo di Valparola, Passo di Falzarego, Passo Tre Croci, and possibly another, not in my records. Of the lot, Valparola was the only one where I stopped to take some pictures. Otherwise... meh. They're there - not much to add. I was disappointed to see the passes were mostly just big parking lots for the ski season. In general, they didn't compare with the passes I saw earlier. It's a pity, as the scenery, on the road, was like nothing else I saw.

I'\m not an expert on the way boxers work, but, yeah, they seem to want to be wound up a bit to keep them happy. A friend has an '07 that needs that, the '09 loaner needed that, and wetheads I've ridden in the US and the Alps need that. Bottom line, if that's what makes them happy, then there it is. The problem with the bike from Edelweiss was that just maybe that gearbox really was coming apart. Anyway, I "rode it like I stole it" and things worked out.

100% correct about Stelvio it has the name and everyone flocks there for bragging rights , there are so many great roads in the alp region. the Dolomite 's that area is just beautiful, But again can be touristy. The bikes that you rent are well used and not always by people that know how to ride so they take a beating , But on the other hand the good part is its not yours so like you said ride it like you stole it and they have to worry about the weak links

 

[RBEmerson]

Compared to a year ago, the vacation traffic was definitely heavier. In Germany, some of the schools started the summer break a week or two earlier, which meant more people heading south. My wife and her brother and sister stayed on Lake Garda for three days (Chris doesn't ride). They said it was seriously mobbed. The Andermatt area was fairly calm by comparison. The only other place where traffic was light was Grossglöckner. There was a fairly nasty rain storm moving in the valley, with B100, coming east from Dobbiaco. (I didn't see lightning, but it could have been there, too) I thought that turning north would get me away from it. I stayed dry, but it was hovering in the background. I stopped long enough to take some pictures and then Auf Wiedersehen. That may have discouraged some travel. Further north, going through Zell am See, there was tons of traffic. Go figure.

You're right about rentals being beat up. The RT had some miles on it (7000 mi???), so anything's possible. This year's K1600 had about 600 miles(!). Looking at the Silvretta footage and the motor sounds in the hairpins, I'm now tempted to wonder if the rental folks somehow fiddled with the ECU to take some power out of the bike. I remember passing a truck and putting my hand on the throttle with some ...um... enthusiasm. I hit about 80 mph but didn't have that "hanging on for dear life" feeling I've seen in other KGT's.

I ride an '03 K1200RS (flat four) - it's got a lot of torque just off of idle, and delivers an OMG experience when I wind it up. Hmmm...

ADDED: For the longest darned time, I've been tired of the phone pole sticking out of the bike. Photoshop is now my BFF.

 

[lkraus]

Er, not to be pesky but... ---> panniers:
Since you now own a fine German motorcycle, the correct German word for "gal in back" is "sozia" (if it's a guy in back, "sozius"). The sozia is not the guy waving his arms during a training drill...

I think the word he wanted was "pillion". I didn't offer a correction, as I figured a guy that just called his wife an old bag would not live long enough to use the information.

 

[RBEmerson]

Well... here are some more words to die by: sticker on a "beanie" helmet - "If you can read this, the b***h in back fell off". Funeral is Saturday at 2PM.

 

[irishrover14]

alps tour

Compared to a year ago, the vacation traffic was definitely heavier. In Germany, some of the schools started the summer break a week or two earlier, which meant more people heading south. My wife and her brother and sister stayed on Lake Garda for three days (Chris doesn't ride). They said it was seriously mobbed. The Andermatt area was fairly calm by comparison. The only other place where traffic was light was Grossglöckner. There was a fairly nasty rain storm moving in the valley, with B100, coming east from Dobbiaco. (I didn't see lightning, but it could have been there, too) I thought that turning north would get me away from it. I stayed dry, but it was hovering in the background. I stopped long enough to take some pictures and then Auf Wiedersehen. That may have discouraged some travel. Further north, going through Zell am See, there was tons of traffic. Go figure.

You're right about rentals being beat up. RT had some miles on it (7000 mi???), so anything's possible. This year's K1600 had about 600 miles(!). Looking at the Silvretta footage and the motor sounds in the hairpins, I'm now tempted to wonder if the rental folks somehow fiddled with the ECU to take some power out of the bike. I remember passing a truck and putting my hand on the throttle with some ...um... enthusiasm. I hit about 80 mph but didn't have that "hanging on for dear life" feeling I've seen in other KGT's.

I ride an '03 K1200RS (flat four) - it's got a lot of torque just off of idle, and delivers an OMG experience when I wind it up. Hmmm...

We were lucky last year the traffic was fairly light in the mountains only when we came down out if the mts we would run into traffic, That looks like an awesome ride you have there, and my Ducati is like you describe very good low end torque with a outrageous top end it's just not a great interstate bike ( not enough wind protection) I live on the east coast right by Atlantic city New Jersey and to get to any decent mountain riding you have to suffer through some very busy interstate, I usually always ride two up the wife loves to ride so I just needed a bike that is accommodating for the two of us and the RT seems to fit the bill, WE have traveled many a mile on my road king here in USA I just never realized how much more comfortable a bike like the RT was Harleys are just prehistoric when you compare them to a BMW or even the Ducati in ride quality handling and power, I hate to say it but when you get older you just don't want to get beat up anymore and you get tired of the shaking and the noise and you appreciate the smoothness and power of a refined motorcycle like a BMW, I have two try and figure out how to post pictures of are trip we do have a ton of them