sticky vs. non-sticky tires

[ultracyclist]

Over the summer, right before the National, I was at the local BMW motorcycle shop and I met a guy who was putting "stickier" tires on because the bike (R-RT) does not turn as easily on "harder" tires. He said that he had to really work hard in order to get the bike turning.

I asked him to explain this, and he provided to me an explanation that included tire composition, riding style (aggressive) , and rocket science.

Perhaps some forum members could explain what this guy was talking about.

Is there an index for "stickiness" when evaluating possible tires for the rad?

I know there is a trade-off between mileage and stickiness.

 

[pglaves]

I have no idea what he was saying about tread compound. What I do know is that the profile of the tread section of the tire has a significant impact on how a bike feels when you initiate a turn. And, how steady the bike feels at a given constant radius turn.

I also know that underinflation or over inflation can have similar effects.

I don't think I am a discerning enough rider to be able to feel the differences between a MeZ6 and an Me880 due to tread composition, but I've never tried.

I could feel the difference between a Bridgestone BT56 (sport tire OEM on the R1150R and Hayabusa) and a Me880 (touring tire) - but the BT56 has a flat oval section and the Me880 has a much rounder profile.

 

[DENNIE]

I agree with Mr.Glaves, -especially his quote- If you're requiring stickier tires ( softer compound) on the street , I think you're pushing your street bike too close to the limits of traction. unless your already riding on chingshins..... tire tread patterns and pressures, suspension would have more affect on stability. You would be amazed at the # of people who run different tread patterns front to rear.

 

[testinglogin]

I actually have noticed handling differences with different tires. Some examples:

My R80/7 came with Continental tires on it, basically the "original" type tire that came on the bike. They tracked rain grooves and weren't very confidence inspiring. They were a "mileage" tire. I replaced them with Bridgestone S-11 Spitfires. Those tires are GREAT. They don't track rain grooves, they turn in easy, and they stick. I can drag my sidestand with them on my R80. However, I have found that my first set lasted a bit over 10,000, but my second set have burned up a bit quicker... due to more "spirited" riding. I could even get stickier and get something like a Bridgestone BT45, but I'm guessing I'd get about 5,000 out of those.

Anyhow, there isn't a specific "index" of stickiness that I know of, but you can basically judge by rated tread life. If the tire is rated for 20,000 miles, you know it's a hard compound, and you're giving up some traction if you are going to be riding hard. The "stickier" the tire, the softer the compound, and the faster it's going to wear out. Of course, there are still differences with tire shape (which will affect "turn in") and tread shape (when it comes to riding in rain), but from a wear perspective, faster wear = sticker tire and less mileage, high mileage = harder tire, and less "stick".

 

[lgarza]

sticky vs non stcky

I don't entirely agree when saying that if you need stickier tires you are too fast on the street. I see on your profile that you ride an 1150R, and if you like the sporty feeling of your ride, a sticky tire would enhance your experience. The precise turning, braking, accelerating, all together makes it for a better-controlled for the bike. If you often ride on went, or grabble roads, that's another story.
If you don't mind changing tires after 3000 miles, and want to experience all the potential of the 1150R, try some softer tires.
luis.

 

[DENNIE]

after much re-thunkin I must acquiesce, but the roads around my area are so bad, i.e., surface texture changes and undulations that if you were close to tire traction limits you could low side very easily. this is of course due to lack of situational awareness on my part and pushing my (r.i.p.) 888 too hard for the high quality mississippi road surfaces. smart would have been to ride the route at a sane pace first......DOH!

 

[njnear]

Here's a real life example from a guy I know on the subject in layman's terms. He had a Concours and opted to get away from the factory Dunlops and buy higher mileage (i.e. less sticky) tires. He got away with this for a few sets and was getting about 15k out of what were basically Gold Wing tires. That's pretty good mileage and decent sticky if you don't push the envelope.

However, he bought some even cheaper, higher mileage, less sticky cruiser tires and on the next trip, he went into a "normal" curve and the bike went out from under him. It got very exciting, he left the road and managed to keep it upright.

There's a data point for your sticky question.

I also had a Concours and put the Elite III's on it. Mileage was at least double the factory tires. However, I did have an experience that reminded me the tires weren't as sticky. During strong acceleration in a nearly peg dragging situation, the back end slid out. It immediately hooked back up when I backed off the throttle, but that was something I had not experienced in the exact location and the same conditions with the factory stickier tires.

It's all a big compromise. If you do nothing but run the Dragon and want to continually drag the pegs, buy the stickiest tires. If you're straight up and 80 mph all the time, buy the high mileage tires.

 

[dlearl476]

As JD pointed out, this info generally coorelates to the wear index on the tire. Not on the usual 170/60R-17 size, but the full nomenclature. From the Pirelli site:

160/60ZR18M/CTL (70W)
170/60ZR17M/CTL(72W)
150/70ZR17M/CTL(69W)

IIRC, the (70W) value is the wear index and a 72 would be harder than a 69. But it can be deceptive. Another variable these denote is load index, i.e. a 72 is for a heavier bike (judging from the size) than a 69.
Most manufacturers have a page on their website that decode their information.

Also, these days it's not a matter of having to sacrifice one for the other. Many manufacuturers are making dual and even triple compound tires, mostly in Comp and/or SportTouring ranges, with harder compound in the center area the usually wears more quickly and softer ones on the sides were "sticky" is important for cornering.

One of my favs, the Michelin Pilot Road, is such a tire IIRC. Not to mention it's high silica content makes it phenomenal in the wet.

Personally, I take issue with folks who profess rock-hard, high mileage tires inflated to the max for longevity's sake is a good way to save a few bucks. IMO, with two contact patches about the size of a half dollar between a fantastic ride and a trip to the hospital, I figure it's worth it to sacrifice a few thousand miles for an extra margin of safety.

 

[ragtoplvr]

this is why I use Michelin Trail 5 on the GS. Stickey sides, long wearing center.

Any dual compound tire should be great.

Rod

 

[craydds]

Sticky tires for the track: Dunlop Q3+ . More sticky than you'll ever need. It would be a blast to run them in the twisties, but it is simply overkill. You only get a few thousand miles out of them.
High mileage tires for the street: Dunlop RoadSmart IV. Still more sticky than you'll ever need in the canyons, and you don't have to buy new tires every month.
I ran Michelin Road 5's on my Aprilia. Incredible grip. Any of the latest sport-touring tires have more grip than you'll ever need, and they get great mileage. No need for track-day tires on the street.

 

[crows123]

sticky tyres

I used to ride fjr 1300 and now ride a r1200rt. Putting so called stickery tires is bunk in my opinion. Most tire selection is based on power to weight ratio, in a sport bike you have small amount of weight to enormous amount of power, you do need the softer tire for traction, which in turn means less mileage. With the 1200RT side wall construction is king to performance of the bike, due to weight. Michelin and Dunlop in MOP have it down to a science, which boils down to how you like the feel riding out of your butt. I used to ride pr4's now ride Q4 and only because of the feel , both tires respond just as well wet or dry. I ride my RT like an old man some days and others like I stole it and don't worry about it with the Q4's.

 

[craydds]

Putting so called stickery tires is bunk in my opinion... I ride my RT like an old man some days and others like I stole it and don't worry about it with the Q4's.

Are you saying that you run Dunlop Q4's on the street? https://www.dunlopmotorcycletires.com/tire-line/sportmax-q4/

 

[droveto]

A softer compound will depress deeper into the nooks and crannies of the road and thus will create better cornering traction than a harder compound. It effectively increase the surface area of contact, and because the contact type is rough, it helps even more than two hard and smooth surfaces. Lower pressures in the tires have a similar impact.
A softer compound wears more quickly.

 

[Geekmaster]

Over the summer, right before the National, I was at the local BMW motorcycle shop and I met a guy who was putting "stickier" tires on because the bike (R-RT) does not turn as easily on "harder" tires. He said that he had to really work hard in order to get the bike turning.

To the OP ... what the guy described was likely not due to hard vs. sticky tires. It sounds like he was riding on a rear tire that had been squared off due to wear down the center. When I first bought my RT last fall, I had to fight with it to turn it ... I mean HEAVY counter steering. And then it would not stay in the line I chose, but tried to stand back up. And on low speed turns, it would just quickly DROP into the corner.

As soon as I replaced the tires, handling became beautiful. Easy counter steering (pretty much just have to think about it, and very little pressure), and the bike maintains a perfect line throughout the corners. Went from a nightmare to a dream.

Were my new tires stickier? Yes, but that did not affect cornering ease. Were they also much more round? Yes, and that was what fixed the problem.

 

[craydds]

It sounds like he was riding on a rear tire that had been squared off due to wear down the center... Were my new tires stickier? Yes, but that did not affect cornering ease. Were they also much more round? Yes, and that was what fixed the problem.

+1.
1) I suggest that any new sport-touring tire will handle like a dream. An old squared off tire handles like a dump truck.
2) Stickiness? There is no need for a track-day tire on the street. The new compounds get great mileage, and stick to the twisties more than any sane rider will ever need.
3) Pick any of the top tires - Conti RoadAttack 3, Dunlop RoadSmart IV, Mich Road 6, Pirelli Angel GT II, list list goes on... put a new set of eight different brands on eight identical R1250RT's. Now go out and test ride each bike on your favorite track. I suggest that not one of us mere mortals (we are not Rossi) can tell any difference between any of the tires.

 

[dravnx]

+1.
1) I suggest that any new sport-touring tire will handle like a dream. An old squared off tire handles like a dump truck.
2) Stickiness? There is no need for a track-day tire on the street. The new compounds get great mileage, and stick to the twisties more than any sane rider will ever need.
3) Pick any of the top tires - Conti RoadAttack 3, Dunlop RoadSmart IV, Mich Road 6, Pirelli Angel GT II, list list goes on... put a new set of eight different brands on eight identical R1250RT's. Now go out and test ride each bike on your favorite track. I suggest that not one of us mere mortals (we are not Rossi) can tell any difference between any of the tires.

+1 ^^^^this.