Splinectomy

[froggy]

I am having to surgically remove my trans on a 02 R1150RT. I will be replacing trans shaft, slave cylinder,all seals,and installing a spacer on friction disc to push hub out so all of splines are in contact. At 34000 miles it's hard to believe the splines were shredded like this. Some of my Gateway cohorts state I should realign the trans. How can you realign it if it's already been pegged. Has anyone heard of this?
Thanks in advance

 

[henzilla]

Hey Craig, usually a lot of responses to this topic.

A search within Oilheads will show several threads. There is one recently about the spacer on the friction disc as well.

This one touched on alignment along the way. Not as frequent of a fix as you need some method of "correctly" aligning it and re-doweling...a couple of members have tackled this, just could not locate the thread

http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread...ft-spline-need-advice-please&highlight=spline

 

[nrpetersen]

Have you checked for spline wear by removing the starter? They are not all bad. Post what you find and we can suggest from there.

 

[PGlaves]

Before I assumed the alignment of the transmission case to the engine case was in error I would very carefully check the "clutch housing" (the flywheel) for axial runout (wobble). I am convinced that a bent flywheel that causes the clutch disk to not be perfectly perpendicular to the transmission shaft is a common cause of premature wear - and this opinion seems to be backed up by what Anton Largiader and Tom Cutter have been finding. If he sees this Anton may have a comment on the issue.

 

[jammess]

Before I assumed the alignment of the transmission case to the engine case was in error I would very carefully check the "clutch housing" (the flywheel) for axial runout (wobble). I am convinced that a bent flywheel that causes the clutch disk to not be perfectly perpendicular to the transmission shaft is a common cause of premature wear - and this opinion seems to be backed up by what Anton Largiader and Tom Cutter have been finding. If he sees this Anton may have a comment on the issue.

I think you just might have hit on the primary cause of the kind of tapered wear so many photos have shown on ruined input shafts. I never could picture in my mind how axial mis-alignment could cause this phenomena. Seems there was thread recently where method of packing for shipping with the front wheel removed was discussed pertaining to damaged fly wheels. Too bad there is no way to find out how these bikes were shipped.

 

[awagnon]

I agree with Paul. Based on what Anton L. said, when my splines went out, I replaced everything south of the crank shaft. ( Clutch housing, clutch plate, pressure plate, and replaced the tranny input shaft, front shaft bearing, and all seals. ) I did not check for alignment as I don't have those skills. The original splines failed at 40,000 miles. It was an '02 RT. I took another look at the splines at about 70,000 miles just before I sold the bike. The splines were fine. Did it fix it? Who knows. I warned the buyer about it, who happened to be an engineer. He was ok with the fix and uncertainty.

 

[awagnon]

By the way, there is a good DVD showing the entire process on an 1100RT which is the same except for the mechanical clutch. If you do the work yourself, check out my checklist for the procedure so you stay on track: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35468239/Spline%20Lube%20Procedure%20v03%2026%2011.doc

Let me know if you can't find the DVD or the checklist.

 

[roger 04 rt]

I agree with Paul. Based on what Anton L. said, when my splines went out, I replaced everything south of the crank shaft. ( Clutch housing, clutch plate, pressure plate, and replaced the tranny input shaft, front shaft bearing, and all seals. ) I did not check for alignment as I don't have those skills. The original splines failed at 40,000 miles. It was an '02 RT. I took another look at the splines at about 70,000 miles just before I sold the bike. The splines were fine. Did it fix it? Who knows. I warned the buyer about it, who happened to be an engineer. He was ok with the fix and uncertainty.

Thanks for posting this. While there are many comments about replacing input shaft or clutch hardware as a remedy to an early spline failure, there aren't many longterm follow-up reports.

I don't think this says that alignment is never a problem but I conclude from your report you solved the problem with your bike.

 

[froggy]

By the way I suddenly lost power to the rear wheel on accell, I new I had lost something in the trans. Took it apart last weekend after a nice drive back from Texas. Hub on friction plate had zero splines left and input shaft was trashed. My friction plate still has 6.223 left on it so I found a friction plate that had been ruined by oil after recent install and will be removing hub from that and install it on my plate with hub adapter.I will not be replacing flywheel yet and do not have knowledge to check it. I will check shaft after 15000 to 20000 miles and see how its doing.

 

[froggy]

Spacer installed, parts sent to my mechanic...now I wait ;(

 

[PAS]

Was there much red rust dust inside? When I lost a spline on my 81 due to misalignment, I could have covered a pencil magnet end if I stuck it in the timing hole

 

[froggy]

There was a good amount,yes.

 

[froggy]

Trans installed and took ride around. Now I have trans whine...REALLY!

 

[Jeff488]

In a particular gear or all/some of them?
Under power, coasting or while clutch disengaged?
In neutral?

Seems to me that all transmissions make a little gear noise.
I think fifth is the only straight through gear, but could easily be wrong.

Maybe get a second opinion?

IIRC, mine has a whine in fourth, but not loud enough to think something's amiss.
I rarely ride it without ear protection, but without earplugs it sure seems noisy.
Bike has 89,000 miles on it.

 

[froggy]

Found the problem. I am used to working on car manual trans with cast iron housing. Soak New internals in trans fluid and install, install trans, install trans fluid and off goes customer. My mechanic does not do that. He lightly lubes parts,installs trans, raises rear end, starts bike and runs thru gears. I did not know this when getting trans back from him. I installed trans, filled, and off I went for a ride. Luckily I just idled down a hill and thru my neighbourhood and then parked it. Today I road to my mechanic and as I road it quieted down, that's when I figured it out.

 

[Jeff488]

I don't understand.
What was wrong?

 

[rad]

Before I assumed the alignment of the transmission case to the engine case was in error I would very carefully check the "clutch housing" (the flywheel) for axial runout (wobble). I am convinced that a bent flywheel that causes the clutch disk to not be perfectly perpendicular to the transmission shaft is a common cause of premature wear - and this opinion seems to be backed up by what Anton Largiader and Tom Cutter have been finding. If he sees this Anton may have a comment on the issue.

Holy cow! Where were you, Anton and Tom as my 99 R1100S ate its splines like clockwork every 15,000 miles?

Ok, to be fair this was 16 years ago and those of us with this somewhat new malady were getting the blame. "It must be how you shift, or how hard you ride or, or...or". Even years later when I performed spline lubes on my later later Oil Heads as a preventive measure I always heard the misalignment theory, never the bent fly wheel theory.

The bent flywheel theory makes so much sense to me......but, what do I know. I loved that 99 S but I quickly gave it back to BMW.

Great post, Paul, thank you

Conrad