R1100S Clutch Spline Preventive Maintenance

[arbezc]

Good evening,
I’ve been a member for a while but haven’t been active on this forum. I’ve posted a similar query on the Pelican R1100S site. The general consensus was I should just ride & keep checking. I’ve also search this site but haven’t found definitive answers.

My motorcycle is a 2001 R1100S which I’ve personalized for touring. It currently has about 28,000 miles (44K Km) on it. I intend use it touring on the west coast - It’s currently stored in Vancouver.

A spline inspection last year showed a slight increase in play from the year before. Estimate movement is less than 2mm at the outside of the clutch. I’m assuming that spline wear is within tolerance – I’ve not hard on components.

I’m favouring an inspection & spline lube before riding. Assuming the splines look OK, can you advise as to how far I should go with parts replacement?
Specifically,
Is it advisable to install a modified friction disk while I’m in there?
And is it better to replace the complete clutch pack even if the parts look good?
Should I replace the clutch slave cylinder or is a seal kit OK?

Here’s a picture of the bike in question,
Thanks in advance, Charles

 

[gsaddict]

Is it advisable to install a modified friction disk while I’m in there?
Yes, order this extended hub disc https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla33264.html

And is it better to replace the complete clutch pack even if the parts look good?
Place a straightedge across both friction surfaces - they must be dead flat. (most I've pulled down are dished) Any dishing will result slippage upon hard acceleration if a new disc is used.

A super price on a complete extended hub clutch kit here: https://www.beemerboneyard.com/cla33264ck.html

 

[arbezc]

Thanks GS Addict,
Thats the friction disk I was looking at.

I haven't done much clutch work - I'm almost looking forward to seeing what condition its in. The bike has been totally reliable so far & I love riding now that the ergonoics are tweaked.

If dishing is minimal will a new disk seat in within say, 500km?

Would you recommend proactively changing the Slave Cylinders seals?

Thanks again & I plan to forward my Hall Sensor
Charles

 

[gsaddict]

Thanks GS Addict,
Thats the friction disk I was looking at.

I haven't done much clutch work - I'm almost looking forward to seeing what condition its in. The bike has been totally reliable so far & I love riding now that the ergonoics are tweaked.

If dishing is minimal will a new disk seat in within say, 500km?

Would you recommend proactively changing the Slave Cylinders seals?

Thanks again & I plan to forward my Hall Sensor
Charles

If dishing is minimal will a new disk seat in within say, 500km?
It won't "seat" as we would expect with brake pads, there is only friction/wear when launching. Entirely at your own risk to try. I did once on one of my own machines only to re-do the job. It is worth noting that dealers will not warranty a clutch job if only the disc is replaced.

Would you recommend proactively changing the Slave Cylinders seals?
No, if the slave is still functional and not leaking, simply lube the little bearing on the piston with high temp wheel bearing grease. Work the grease in the center so it squeezes out the perimeter. Wipe away any excess.
Doing this proactively every 50,000 miles or so as well as flushing the fluid annually will extend the life of the slave. I've done this on my '00GS and it has over 200,000 miles on the original slave cylinder.

 

[arbezc]

I guess the BMW dry clutches are not as robust as automotive designs. They look fairly thin in photographs. I'll take your advice & either only clean & lubricate if the splines look good or replace the whole pack. With so little free play I don't expect disaster.

I'm pretty easy on components, few hard accelerations or decelerations at low speed. A sample size on one doesn't mean much but I'll post a couple of images when I'm done.
Maybe its the "honey moon phase" but I'm looking forward this.

Thanks again,
Charles

 

[happy wanderer]

If you've never done a spline lube or clutch job on an oilhead before be advised it's fairly involved. If you want to be sure the bike is ready for some long distance touring and concerned about drive train components being right before you go consider getting the job done by the guy who has answered your questions. GSAddict.

I don't know a better mechanic in the province of BC and I know quite a few. He is on Sechelt Pennisula, a 45 minute ferry ride from Vancouver where your bike is stored. Reasonable rates compared to dealer and a much more complete, caring and detailed job and approach. Plus you get to ride the Sunshine Coast Highway which is a nice bonus.

 

[BC1100S]

I don't know a better mechanic in the province of BC and I know quite a few. He is on Sechelt Pennisula, a 45 minute ferry ride from Vancouver where your bike is stored. Reasonable rates compared to dealer and a much more complete, caring and detailed job and approach. Plus you get to ride the Sunshine Coast Highway which is a nice bonus.

Giving this statement a +1 is to vastly understate how much I agree with it.

 

[arbezc]

Thanks Guys that's a good suggestion. It would useful to have an expert look the bike over. I'm fairly handy but I don't have many tools in Vancouver.
The bike is stored at my brothers place. Also, I'd be working in an open carport.

Being from Vancouver I've passed through Sechelt on the way to Rudy Lake many times. That route would make a very nice loop back down the island.

I suppose the way to contact GSAddict is by PM?

 

[happy wanderer]

Thanks Guys that's a good suggestion. It would useful to have an expert look the bike over. I'm fairly handy but I don't have many tools in Vancouver.
The bike is stored at my brothers place. Also, I'd be working in an open carport.

Being from Vancouver I've passed through Sechelt on the way to Rudy Lake many times. That route would make a very nice loop back down the island.

I suppose the way to contact GSAddict is by PM?

Yeah you can PM him here for sure. I will PM you some more contact info. Might be best to call him up.

 

[bikerfish1100]

Spline wear on these bikes is mileage related, not time (unlike brake fluid, tires, etc.). Very rare to ever see any kind of an issue prior to 50K miles or so (that's miles, not km). Mine stripped out at 72K, and had started showing the telltale symptom of balky downshifts from 4-3 and 3-2 for the previous 2000 miles.
Personally, at 28K miles, I'd just ride the damn thing until I was closer to that 40-50K mile mark, and then look to lube.
YMMV.

 

[arbezc]

Thanks again Guys, you've given me sound advice on both sides of the argument.

If the bike were showing signs of failure the decision would be easy. At 28,000 I could wait a bit longer before doing some PM. That said, I seem to remember my R75 manual specifying a spline lube every 30K. I'm not so sure this isn't an unreasonable interval for this model. I believe most manufacturers’ cut corners including maintenance requirements to compete in a more competitive market. This is especially true in North America were we expect much longer intervals. I'll re-evaluate my time & energy once my travel plans are firmed up.

Thanks again, the advice on this forum is greatly appreciated,

Charles

 

[happy wanderer]

Paul Glaves who maintains several hi mile bikes has recommended 40K intervals on oilheads however.... I am of the opinion that time is also a factor. The spline lubricant dries out over time and splines are subject to fretting from surface rust and as Neil Young stated (correctly) Rust Never Sleeps.

So I think that low K bikes may need spline lubes based on time and mileage and also consider the environment the bike is stored in. Exactly what the interval should be is up for debate.

 

[arbezc]

I have an 80's Moto Guzzi. The clutch splines are much larger & supposedly more robust than BMW's of the same period. (It actually has intermediate hub component that links the friction disks to the input shaft) The factory doesn't provide a lubrication schedule but most experts recommend a coat of moly at 50K. Like BMW's, the application of grease at the factory has been inconsistent. (I'm not sure about the others but they still serve beer in Porsche's cafeteria) I'll be pulling the clutch on the Guzzi in a few weeks & will let you know what I find.

To change the subject slightly, I came across a nicely detailed piece with high resolution images by Blacque Jacque Shellacque on this website. In it he suggests that there may be some deformation of the pressure plate or clutch cover when the clutch pack is bolted up. There isn't an allowance for the pressure plate "straps". I don't think he's suggesting this as the root cause of spline failures but his experimentation & results look impressive. There's several before & after photos worth looking at. Here's the address below. (There must be a way to create a link)

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?90727-R1150-clutch-splines-redux&highlight=Redux

Has anyone tried similiar modifications?

 

[pglaves]

Paul Glaves who maintains several hi mile bikes has recommended 40K intervals on oilheads however.... I am of the opinion that time is also a factor. The spline lubricant dries out over time and splines are subject to fretting from surface rust and as Neil Young stated (correctly) Rust Never Sleeps.

So I think that low K bikes may need spline lubes based on time and mileage and also consider the environment the bike is stored in. Exactly what the interval should be is up for debate.

I agree. Very low mileage per year and stored bikes need a fresh CLEANING and lubrication every three years in my opinion.

 

[arbezc]

I suspect you're right in principle - it’s better to run a machine regularly than intermittently. There's a lot of older guys with hi dollar collector toys these days. Someone's in for surprises when they inherit them.

Wouldn't depend somewhat on types of materials, storage & riding conditions though? For example, brake fluid is hydroscopic but I don't think engine oil is. A climate controlled basement would have a different effect than an unheated garage in say the north east. Years ago greases used to separate; the newer synthetic stuff doesn't seem to. I remember a rep saying the newer oils can sit almost indefinitely in the can. Rubber components are prone to degradation by oxygen. Also direct sunlight, extreme temperatures & humid conditions are destructive to everything over time. It’s about entropy.

Some us can only ride occasionally, here's my approach.
I don't start bikes or cars that I know won't be run for several years. Instead I change all the fluids, remove the battery, take the weight off the suspension, perhaps a spray light coating of silicon on the rubber parts & cover it. I try to turn the engine over by hand a few times a year. If it’s been out of commission for years it gets a thorough inspection, run it a bit then change all the fluids. With cars I pressurize the oil system before starting & let it warm up slowly. So far it's worked, despite being only used occasionally; the R1100S has never had a repair & runs very smoothly.

 

[pglaves]

I suspect you're right in principle - it’s better to run a machine regularly than intermittently. There's a lot of older guys with hi dollar collector toys these days. Someone's in for surprises when they inherit them.

Wouldn't depend somewhat on types of materials, storage & riding conditions though? For example, brake fluid is hydroscopic but I don't think engine oil is. A climate controlled basement would have a different effect than an unheated garage in say the north east. Years ago greases used to separate; the newer synthetic stuff doesn't seem to. I remember a rep saying the newer oils can sit almost indefinitely in the can. Rubber components are prone to degradation by oxygen. Also direct sunlight, extreme temperatures & humid conditions are destructive to everything over time. It’s about entropy.

Some us can only ride occasionally, here's my approach.
I don't start bikes or cars that I know won't be run for several years. Instead I change all the fluids, remove the battery, take the weight off the suspension, perhaps a spray light coating of silicon on the rubber parts & cover it. I try to turn the engine over by hand a few times a year. If it’s been out of commission for years it gets a thorough inspection, run it a bit then change all the fluids. With cars I pressurize the oil system before starting & let it warm up slowly. So far it's worked, despite being only used occasionally; the R1100S has never had a repair & runs very smoothly.

My specific comments related to the cleaning and lubrication of clutch hub to transmission input shaft splines. And yes, it depends on storage conditions and riding conditions. And it depends on the lubricant used. It also depends on how daring or risk averse an owner is. Your bike. Your money or time. Your choice.