Spline trouble on my oilhead?

[ARM74]

I have a 2000 R11R and am experiencing shifting problems, particularly downshifitng from 3-2-1 (mostly 2-1). Has anyone experienced spline failure on their oilhead around 30k miles? I ask this because I owned a K75 in the past, and went through a spline failure with that motorcycle and would like to avoid it with my R. Really, though, I'm hoping someone will tell me that everything will be ok and that I'm being overly worried ! Of course, I am prepared to face the awful truth. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[jdiaz]

Usually downshifting issues mean that the clutch spline needs to be lubed. I doubt its a larger problem.

First thing to get is a new clutch cable. We've had a few bikes that have responded to that fix.

 

[lazywizard02]

Usually downshifting issues mean that the clutch spline needs to be lubed. I doubt its a larger problem.

First thing to get is a new clutch cable. We've had a few bikes that have responded to that fix.

ditto 1 -sounds more like clutch DIS engagement. Evaluate the pull force on the cable. Check the cable smoothness, lubricate the barrel fitting on the handlebar grip, adjust the connection at the transmission then the handlebar threaded conenctor. check rpms aren't too high.

 

[ARM74]

Excellent. I will try those suggestions. I appreciate your help.
I'm new to the MOA forum and have found it to be helpful and rather enjoyable. Thanks.

 

[ANDYVH]

Ditto to the other posts. Could be a cable problem if indeed your bike has the cable operated clutch and not the hydraulic clutch.

If it is cable operated, the adjuster barrel at the left grip should have 12mm of space between the lock ring and the barrel. This insures the right amoiunt of straight cable length going into the lever pivot. The pivot barrel end of the cable should also be greased. Then, the cable should be adjusted at the back of the tranny so you have a 7mm free play gap at the lever to the lever housing.

Doing this will give you much better clutch feel.

But if this makes no difference, and if your clutch splines have not been serviced, for the mileage on the bike that must be done. Clutch splines should be lubed about every 20,000 miles, 40,000 miles at most.

 

[ARM74]

I wasn't aware that splines should be lubed on newer oilheads. I will keep that in mind if the clutch cable adjustments don't work. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jingdog]

Drill a hole in the transmission so a plastic tube attached to a can of spline lube can reach the splines. Spray the lube with the can onto the splines. Lube the splines all you want and never take the bitch apart again. Possible?

 

[BUBBAZANETTI]

Drill a hole in the transmission so a plastic tube attached to a can of spline lube can reach the splines. Spray the lube with the can onto the splines. Lube the splines all you want and never take the bitch apart again. Possible?

Not really,

at least not if you want to lube them properly, i also wouldn't be using any lube that wasn't applied with a brush.

 

[jdiaz]

Drill a hole in the transmission so a plastic tube attached to a can of spline lube can reach the splines. Spray the lube with the can onto the splines. Lube the splines all you want and never take the bitch apart again. Possible?

Its easier to pull the starter, but you are still only looking at probably 1/3rd of the spline being exposed for lubing.

 

[jingdog]

Not really,

at least not if you want to lube them properly, i also wouldn't be using any lube that wasn't applied with a brush.

Remember noisy VW Bug throwout bearings? Remember how they used to whistle? I did the spray lube in a hole trick for that and fixed numerous throwout bearings that way. If I ever have the starter out Ill check out the splines. Seems to me that ought to be a pecfectly good way to lube them. My airhead was NEVER lubed for the 153k miles I had it. The guy who bought it from me changed the clutch a couple years later (that was origional too) and said the splines were fine.

 

[Kenn45]

I had the downshif problem on my R1100R and it was solved by having all the drive line splines lubed. But mine was a '96 with almost 80K. 30K seems really early.

 

[Troutluck]

Proper clutch adjustment *will* affect shifting. Be sure to use the *new and improved* specifications. The specs were revised for 12mm between the "knurled nuts" on the lever with 7mm free play. there are lots of good sources on the interwebs for performing this simple task.

I've seen more than one oilhead with NO free play whatsoever.

 

[ANDYVH]

While it is a novel idea, I really doubt that a spray can of white lithium grease would be effective through a small hole in the side of the tranny housing. First off the problem is getting the lube effectively into the splines. When the clutch pack is assembled, there is only about 3/8" of travel on the clutch splines.

Also, to effectively lube the splines you should clean the old grease and clutch dust out before applying the new grease.

The spray type greases are so light they would "fling off" when the clutch spline shaft is spinning at 3,000 to 7,500 rpm. BMW specifies the Starburag style grease because the "tackiness" of the grease keeps it in place even at high spline shaft speeds. Also, the tackiness makes it difficult for the sliding action of the clutch spline to push the grease out from the splines.

Unless the spray could be directed exactly at the splines there is a good chance you'd get grease on the clutch friction plate surface or on the pressure plates. This would contaminate the friction plate and likely cause slipping.

Now, if the clutch throwout rod were hollow up to the centerpoint of the splines, with a grease zerk at the adjustment end, and if the splines had small holes at the root of each spline, then you might be able to pump grease in from the back. But that would have to be a very calculated, limited amount of grease.

 

[ANDYVH]

Yes, clutch splines on Oilheads HAVE to be lubed to survive.

You can't compare the old Airhead against the Oilhead when talking about not having to lube the splines. Actually, the Airhead clutch splines required it just as much as the Oilheads. That you got 153,000 miles on an Airhead without lubing the clutch splines means you just got lucky. But I bet it was wearing anyway.

The Oilhead clutch spline HAS to be lubed moreso because most Oilheads put out more power and torque than most Airheads. Even though some of the clutch parts are nearly exactly the same. The torque loads on the clutch splines of an Oilhead are higher, both from the power the engine develops, and from the higher wieght of the bike the clutch must get moving.

I have lubed the clutch splines on my 94 R1100RS four times in 120,000 miles. I have also repleaced the clutch assembly in my RS. The output splines on the engine look great with no perceptible wear. If you neglect lubing the splines you could damage the engine output splines in addition to the clutch splines. The clutch hub spline should be considered "sacrificial", because if you ever wear out the engine output spline it means the engine has to be torn down to the crankshaft, and the entire crankshaft must be replaced. Can you say big $$$$?

 

[jammess]

Here's what I think about spline lube, it ain't necessary nor will it do anything to cure a mis-alignment problem between the motor output shaft and the clutch input shaft. I removed the starter motor and had my wife operate the clutch while I observed the action taking place and was surprised to note how small the lateral clutch movement actually was on the splined surface. I mean it didn't amount to more than 1/16 of an inch. I don't see what purpose lubrication will serve to extend spline life and all the lubrication in the world won't cure an alignment problem. I think that some oilheads have perfect engine trans alignment and some don't simple as that. Oh, and show me where spline lube is a maintenance requirement from BMW.

 

[pglaves]

Here's what I think about spline lube, it ain't necessary nor will it do anything to cure a mis-alignment problem between the motor output shaft and the clutch input shaft. I removed the starter motor and had my wife operate the clutch while I observed the action taking place and was surprised to note how small the lateral clutch movement actually was on the splined surface. I mean it didn't amount to more than 1/16 of an inch. I don't see what purpose lubrication will serve to extend spline life and all the lubrication in the world won't cure an alignment problem. I think that some oilheads have perfect engine trans alignment and some don't simple as that. Oh, and show me where spline lube is a maintenance requirement from BMW.

Well ... I just have to disagree with some of this. True - if there is a misalignment lubrication will only help a little and won't really solve the problem.

But, even if it is all properly machined and assembled it does need lubrication. I say that based on the about 550,000 miles Voni has put on her Oilheads and the 70K or so on mine. At about 50K you will start to find dry splines and soon thereafter you will find dry reddish powder (rust from the clutch hub, the input shaft is nickle plated). Pits and wear accelerate once it starts to rust. All this can be avoided with thorough cleaning and relubrication at about 50K intervals. And the more they wear the rougher they are, so relubrication is needed more frequently as the parts approach their wear limits.

Voni's R1100RS splines lasted 202,000 miles with some relubrication and no sign of misalignment. They would have lasted longer if I hadn't neglected at least one relubrication.

Whether BMW recommends this service is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Hands-on maintaining these things for 600K miles - I know what I find when I take them apart.

 

[jammess]

Paul, I agree that corrosion prevention is reason enough to clean and lubricate the splines once in awhile. How often? Well, 50K miles might be a good bench mark. I wonder what a shot of penetrating oil would do if applied to the splines via the starter motor orifice while operating the clutch. Maybe something like LPS as in lubricates penetrates and stops rust. True you can't spray directly on the entire spline surface but maybe enough would work its way through? Might even be able to keep from screwing up the clutch itself. It seems that most of these spline failures one reads about happen before 50K miles and I think lubrication has nothing whatever to do with these early failures. I bet most all fail because of poor engine/trans alignment and BMW ought to step up and make it right by doing repairs I don't care if the bike is in or out of warranty.

 

[deilenberger]

If you neglect lubing the splines you could damage the engine output splines in addition to the clutch splines. The clutch hub spline should be considered "sacrificial", because if you ever wear out the engine output spline it means the engine has to be torn down to the crankshaft, and the entire crankshaft must be replaced. Can you say big $$$$?

Andy - somehow I think one of us is confused. The clutch disk (and hub) rides and mates to the transmission input shaft. The engine output shaft is solidly fastened to the clutch basket that contains the clutch components. The transmission input shaft has been known to wear - especially if there are alignment problems with the engine/transmission interface (excellent article in this months OTL on the subject by Anton L..) Since the clutch housing is fastened solidly by a honking great nut to the engine output shaft - there is no movement there, and no wear.

At least it's that way on every BMW I've ever disassembled.. is yours different?

 

[jammess]

Oh, and I forgot to mention that one should strive to make smooth shifts with engine RPM matching the gear change to avoid excessive shock to the drive train and the splines in particular. Oilheads are hard to shift smoothly at least for me they are. I have one hell of a time matching my engine RPM to the gear I am changing into. I have an '81 R100RT that I can shift smooth as silk every time but not my oilhead.
I find that if I ride with the choke fast idle engaged all the time my shifting is much smoother. Seems to keep me from rolling off the throttle too much when up shifting. Dumb huh?

 

[ANDYVH]

Well there I go again, rattling off a post without re-reading it before submission.

Yes, I stand corrected. The tranny input splines do engage the clutch splines, while the clutch friction disk transmits power to the two pressure plates, one which is in effect the flywheel and 1/2 of the clutch housing, and the other pressure plate is the clutch "cover".

Now, in response to the other poster who feels no spline lube is required because of the very limited clutch hub travel, you are mssing a vital aspect of the need for the lube. Yes, the clutch hub/friction disc travel is very short, because the bulk of the throwout rod travel is simply needed to depress the diaphragm spring.

The lube IS required because of the micro-motion interaction of the clutch hub splines to the tranny input shaft splines. Its motion you cannot see or even feel but for certain it is there. A bike like a flat twin fires both cylinders together, but that means the engine creates a power pulse only on every fourth rotation. So at 3500 rpm the power pulse going through the tranny splines has a frequency of 875 cycles per minute (14.58 cycles per second). That low frequency does produce cyclic on/off interaction/vibration at the clutch splines. There is also a secondary pulse, lower in magnitude, but at the same frequency when both pistons top out on the exhaust stroke.

Without lube in those splines, rust will form (rust is actually very abrasive iron oxide particles), and that minute concentrated grinding action of the cyclic power pulses would act like fine grinding powder on the clutch spline hub and tranny input shaft. That combined with fine road dust (since the clutch is exposed to air) contibutes to spline wear.

Over time, the splines on the clutch hub wear, producing more cyclic harmonic motion, making the grinding worse. Then the tranny input spline also wears, making it worse again. The fact that the clutch hub splines only move 1/16" as you notice actually makes the problem worse! Because it focuses wear in only one area of the splines. If the clutch splines travelled over a greater length of the splines, the wear would be distributed over a greater area.

But since it has so little axial motion is all the MORE reason spline lube is required. If you feel no lube is required go ahead and take a chance. But, you WILL someday fail the clutch hub splines like I saw on a friends K100RT in the Iowa countryside on the way to the Iowa City rally.

I do think it would be a cool retro-fit if a hollow clutch throwout rod with a grease zerk on the end could allow getting grease into the splines from the back of the tranny. Then spline greasing would be a totally external maintenance issue of maybe 10 minutes tops.