spline lube or not

[KARSTEN]

Just bought a 1999 R1100R with 15K Miles,got all the records from previous owner,bike is great but noticed that when shifting up into second and third gear,some scraping,regardless of how fast I am shifting.Clutch is adjusted properly,called dealer to inquire about 12K major service price ($wow!!!!) so I would have a fresh start with this new to me oilhead and found out that this service did not include a spline lube.Not needed on these bikes is what I was told.What gives?I have had pull the tranny on R 1100RS(1994) that I had owned previously and remember well what a pain it was to get to the point where I could lube the shaft.Is it needed on a bike that is 10 years old with so few miles on the clock? If so, are there any links that some one could point me to?thanks Karsten in Mobile

 

[PGlaves]

Just bought a 1999 R1100R with 15K Miles,got all the records from previous owner,bike is great but noticed that when shifting up into second and third gear,some scraping,regardless of how fast I am shifting.Clutch is adjusted properly,called dealer to inquire about 12K major service price ($wow!!!!) so I would have a fresh start with this new to me oilhead and found out that this service did not include a spline lube.Not needed on these bikes is what I was told.What gives?I have had pull the tranny on R 1100RS(1994) that I had owned previously and remember well what a pain it was to get to the point where I could lube the shaft.Is it needed on a bike that is 10 years old with so few miles on the clock? If so, are there any links that some one could point me to?thanks Karsten in Mobile

USUALLY a spline lube is indicated at about 40,000 miles - not 15,000 miles. And usually, dry splines cause a downshifting problem, not an upshifting problem.

The boxes tend to be naturally clunky and some getting used to them is required. If however it actually has a shifting problem the cause is probably internal to the transmission.

 

[ANDYVH]

Paul is one of the experts on how these Oilheads run, so his words carry a lot of wieght.

I have a 94 R1100RS with 143,000 miles on it and it shifts really good (for a 93 Oilhead). But, I DO believe in lubing the clutch hub splines, and I feel it is one of the reasons my bike shifts well, up and down. But with that is the proper technique, rpms up, quick/short action on the clutch and throttle, pre-load the shift lever with your boot, etc. I don't know that lube is not required/recommended for the 99 Oilhead, but I feel it helps.

 

[TonyS]

I suspect your problem is gunk in the shift linkage (the ball and socket joints just above the shift lever). I had the same problem on my 1150RT which I fixed several years ago with about thirty minutes of simple cleaning. There is a retainer clip that pulls out and then the socket pops free with a little pressure from a screwdriver. The bike went from very balky upshifting to silky shifts.

 

[PGlaves]

Paul is one of the experts on how these Oilheads run, so his words carry a lot of wieght.

I have a 94 R1100RS with 143,000 miles on it and it shifts really good (for a 93 Oilhead). But, I DO believe in lubing the clutch hub splines, and I feel it is one of the reasons my bike shifts well, up and down. But with that is the proper technique, rpms up, quick/short action on the clutch and throttle, pre-load the shift lever with your boot, etc. I don't know that lube is not required/recommended for the 99 Oilhead, but I feel it helps.

Nobody is more certain than I am that these things need periodic spline lubes. Certainly a spline lube will be needed sometime - I usually think about 40K miles, but years count too because the lube used at the factory dries out. I'm just not sure that an upshifting problem at 15K miles indicates it is needed right now. So I am reluctant to advise pulling a transmission, lubing a spline, putting it back together, and then finding the problem didn't go away. A better course might be to clean and lubricate the linkage and see if that cures it. Then to plan to have the box repaired. And then go ahead and pull it. If the spline is very dry and dusty then it is a gamble as to whether or not to clean and lube it and put it back together, or take/send the box off for an inspection and corrective repair.

 

[KARSTEN]

I cleaned and greased the shift linkage today and took the Bike for spin on this rather cool day(45 Fahrenheit) and if I shift very slow and with purpose, than I can upshift almost without scratching in 3rd gear.Some improvement but it is not as it should be.
Wonder if I can use moly-spiked gearoil in this 1999 transmission.I used to run it in those old,awesome airheads and it made a world of difference.Don't know if in these newer transmissions are any kind of filters or screens that would keep me from using it in this bike>Does anybody have experience with moly-spiked lubes in the oilhead transmissions?

 

[PGlaves]

I cleaned and greased the shift linkage today and took the Bike for spin on this rather cool day(45 Fahrenheit) and if I shift very slow and with purpose, than I can upshift almost without scratching in 3rd gear.Some improvement but it is not as it should be.
Wonder if I can use moly-spiked gearoil in this 1999 transmission.I used to run it in those old,awesome airheads and it made a world of difference.Don't know if in these newer transmissions are any kind of filters or screens that would keep me from using it in this bike>Does anybody have experience with moly-spiked lubes in the oilhead transmissions?

Yes you can. I've used it in the transmissions on all of our BMWs (except the F650s) since about 1985 with good results. Dow Corning Molykote (Gear Guard) gear oil additive is available at some bearing supply stores. Or Guard Dog Moly gear oil additive can be ordered at www.guarddogmolylubricants.com.

 

[howardpin]

I'm convinced!

Thanks to everyone for their opinions about spline lube. I've decided to go for it and open her up. Yes I'm a little nervous, but I'm sure all will be fine.

From what I can see it doesn't appear that you need to replace any special bolts or smash washers as long as everything comes apart easily. It just seems that if everything checks out ok, I am going to lube the splines, put it back together and replace the fluids.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks

HP

 

[Walking Eagle]

Pivot Pins/Bushings/Bearings. . .

An entirely different thread (above) that you need to read and understand thoroughly. There is a whopping lot of information on this part of the process.

FYI, apparently the pivots on the FD and driveshaft housing are NOT always affixed with the Loctite (various numbers over the years) that requires HEAT to release. Mine, which to my knowledge had NEVER been backed out for 40K+, had NO Loctite at all on them, and the bearings were still in fine shape. I elected to go with bushings, but that's an individual choice. Whatever you do, bushings or bearings, this installation is CRITICAL. There is a thread right now about a set of failed bushings with only 20-something thousand on them, so decide for yourself what to do there when the time comes.

If the pivot pins are very difficult to break loose and don't IMMEDIATELY turn easily, STOP, and apply heat, then try again. We're dealing with ALLOY here, and the threads can strip if too much force is applied against fixed threadlocker.

Doing this job yourself, as others have noted herein, is very rewarding; you'll rapidly lose your fear of doing all sorts of things, and then you're really hooked.

My best advice is to TAKE YOUR TIME, do plenty of studying and asking questions, and ENJOY this rather magical process of replenishment and repair . . . not only for the bike.

Walking Eagle

 

[jkmolt]

Definitely do it. Don't know when BMW "changed the rules" but back in the day, splines were to be lubed every 40,000 miles. Been riding BMW's since 1990 (bought a used '87 K75). Have had splines lubed every 40,000 miles like clock work and never had a problem. It's only since BMW dropped the "required" spline lube that folks have been having problems.

Karl

 

[howardpin]

Thanks for the Tip WE. Can you provide a link to the thread you are talking about? Are you saying that you need to replace the bushings/Bearings or just be be careful when removing the pivot pins.

Thanks

HP

An entirely different thread (above) that you need to read and understand thoroughly. There is a whopping lot of information on this part of the process.

FYI, apparently the pivots on the FD and driveshaft housing are NOT always affixed with the Loctite (various numbers over the years) that requires HEAT to release. Mine, which to my knowledge had NEVER been backed out for 40K+, had NO Loctite at all on them, and the bearings were still in fine shape. I elected to go with bushings, but that's an individual choice. Whatever you do, bushings or bearings, this installation is CRITICAL. There is a thread right now about a set of failed bushings with only 20-something thousand on them, so decide for yourself what to do there when the time comes.

If the pivot pins are very difficult to break loose and don't IMMEDIATELY turn easily, STOP, and apply heat, then try again. We're dealing with ALLOY here, and the threads can strip if too much force is applied against fixed threadlocker.

Doing this job yourself, as others have noted herein, is very rewarding; you'll rapidly lose your fear of doing all sorts of things, and then you're really hooked.

My best advice is to TAKE YOUR TIME, do plenty of studying and asking questions, and ENJOY this rather magical process of replenishment and repair . . . not only for the bike.

Walking Eagle

 

[MotorradMike]

I generally add my .02 to these threads, because I am NOT a mechanic, engineer, race-bike tuner, nor any sort of expert on things mechanical.

And apparently not a real eagle either, the real ones don't walk everywhere.

 

[bikerfish1100]

Thanks for the Tip WE. Can you provide a link to the thread you are talking about? Are you saying that you need to replace the bushings/Bearings or just be be careful when removing the pivot pins.

Thanks

HP

you do have to undo the pivot pins/bearings to get the swingarm off (i've heard that some have done the job without resorting to that step, but can't confirm), and in so doing you may have to replace the pivot bearings (if worn). i'd use heat, right from the start, to break things loose in there. torque values are high, so trying to get movement without heat could be costly.

 

[DrPaul]

you do have to undo the pivot pins/bearings to get the swingarm off (i've heard that some have done the job without resorting to that step, but can't confirm), and in so doing you may have to replace the pivot bearings (if worn). i'd use heat, right from the start, to break things loose in there. torque values are high, so trying to get movement without heat could be costly.

Remove the transmission/swingarm/FD/rear wheel as a unit. There is NO need to disassemble the drivetrain unless you want to service the drive shaft or pivot bearings also.

 

[MotorradMike]

Remove the transmission/swingarm/FD/rear wheel as a unit. There is NO need to disassemble the drivetrain unless you want to service the drive shaft or pivot bearings also.

You'll need a few bubbas to carry that weight.
And you have to keep it all straight for about 8" back if the clutch pushrod is stuck in the clutch end.

 

[PGlaves]

Remove the transmission/swingarm/FD/rear wheel as a unit. There is NO need to disassemble the drivetrain unless you want to service the drive shaft or pivot bearings also.

There is a middle ground here. I usually remove the wheel, remove the final drive, and then remove the transmission and swing arm together.

 

[DrPaul]

You'll need a few bubbas to carry that weight.

Not really. A motorcycle lift on rollers slid under the tranny makes it easy. Just roll the whole unit back away from the clutch. But some 4x4 lumber supports works too. I did it by myself and I'm no 'bubba'.

And you have to keep it all straight for about 8" back if the clutch pushrod is stuck in the clutch end.

Slip the pushrod out of the input shaft after removing the slave cylinder from the back of the tranny. You will want to inspect and lube there anyway.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Details. . .

Others may have a different opinion, but if your bike only has 15k or so, I'd think that pulling the whole drivetrain (or the "middle" method, as suggested by Paul) makes sense, IF there's no play in the FD, etc. Forty thousand or more?, why would you deprive yourself of the pleasures of taking all these wonderful things apart????

MotorradMike -- Eagles walk when they are too full of s*** to fly! How else am I going to get around unless I ride or walk?

It's been a year or so since I did my splines at 40k on the '94, but if you feed the proper terms into any search engine, you will get more information than you can read in a solid week. This here thing IS, after all, the world's largest library. Others may have a thread handy . . .

Walking Eagle

 

[howardpin]

Started my first Spline Lube

Thanks to all those who have posted to this thread. I jumped in and started my first spline lube on my R1100RS. Being that I am not a regular wrencher, I was very nervous tearing into my bike that I bought just last year.

I've been taking my time and following the instructions that pglaves sent to me. So far it was been going really well and had been pretty enjoyable.

Here is my picture of the classic tail in the air.

I built this collapsible table out of 3/4" plywood. Makes for a great inexpensive wrenching table.

Just like the people on this thread say, take your time and it will be alright. So far it has. I did find a couple bolts on the footpegs that had helicoils on them, so I will add that to my list of things to fix.

Thanks again for the help from everyone.

 

[PAS]

What a project! My question is this, what about the splines coming out of the rear of the transmission. Are they lubed also?