Saying Goodbye

[BC1100S]

I do wonder if allowing former members to post is standard practice or just an oversight in your case.

In SeabeckS' case I can only hope it's an oversight.

Kidding, of course!

 

[SeabeckS]

In SeabeckS' case I can only hope it's an oversight.

Kidding, of course!

Some people just never grow up!

 

[SeabeckS]

Hey SeabeckS, I hope your post (or mine) doesn't bar you from occasionally posting a comment. Just tonight the site failed to recognize me with stuff about how as a "guest" I couldn't post. Of course I was able to enter my user name, my password, and as always the "remember me" check box and got in. I think it would be a good thing if former members were able to post - though of course we shouldn't have any of the other benefits of membership.

I do wonder if allowing former members to post is standard practice or just an oversight in your case. Probably a mod will at some point read this and let us know.

Thanks to all of you who have responded with such understanding. This really is a great community.

Doug,

I think a few other past members visit here now and then. Probably more effort than it’s worth to clean out the cobwebs...lol.

In the meantime, I’ll keep up my risky behavior and visit here now and then.

The proceeds of the sale of my beloved R11S will be utilized soon to pick up a new Volvo in Sweden and for a river cruise down the Rhine. 66 days to departure!

Sláinte!

 

[crna59]

But the biggest bang for my subscription buck has to be right here. I've received so much smart advice on my bikes.

Howdy neighbor.... here's some smart advice. Go 3-wheelin' !! Either convert your 2-wheel or trade it in on a Spyder! I teach students all the time that have made the switch....

 

[kentuvman]

Takes a lot of guts to know when to Hold'em and Fold'em.

Good luck!

 

[BCKRider]

Thanks to all of you who have suggested moving to three wheels. I'm sure it works for some, but the idea doesn't turn my crank. Apparently there are quite a few of us who have decided that the time has come to quit riding. I made my decision long before I read the "rider to rider" page a couple issues back - and I think that is exactly how it should be - a personal decision based not only how much you love riding but also what factors in your personal ageing process have reduced your abilities as a rider.

Almost all of us over 60 (I'm now 71) have some reduction in visual acuity and peripheral vision, worse night vision, and increased reaction time. Those who ride a lot have the benefit of experience on their side. Few of us want to die on our bikes or, worse, be severely crippled in a motorcycle crash. I think none of us want to be the cause of a crash which kills or disables others. So I think, every year, ageing riders need to take stock. Do I need to give up riding at night - if you haven't already? Do I need to slow down a bit to give myself more reaction time? Are there traffic situations which I handled in the past which I should now avoid? Should I travel shorter distances a day than I did in the past? Are there weather conditions which I could handle in the past which are scarier now? In short, I don't see this as a "yes-no" proposition. But, at some point in your life, you are going to start getting worse, no matter how much training you get. If you recognize how you are getting worse as a rider, you may be able to compensate and be as safe as you were when you were younger.

For most riders (those who don't end their motorcycling career with a crash,) there will come a time to sell the last bike. However much you still love to ride, you recognize that you can no longer compensate for your physical and mental deficits and still consider yourself a "safe rider," whatever that means. I think that is a very personal and often very hard decision.

I know there are riders older than I am on this forum who are both more skilled and experienced than me. I would very much like to hear their take on the above post.

 

[motodan]

BCKRider, Excellent comments....well stated.

 

[W7lej1]

I can empathize - I think. 71 y/o, not ready to quit riding yet, but I can sorta see that day on the distant horizon.

Best wishes, hope all goes well whatever you are doing next!

Marty

 

[SeabeckS]

BCKRider, Excellent comments....well stated.

+1.

My decision was influenced as well by simply not riding as much or as far. It became apparent to me that my skills were declining. The joyfulness was slowly departing, and after a bit of a health problem, it seemed like the time had come to hang up my helmet.

Still have a lot of damned fine memories, no one can take those away.

Sláinte!

 

[Paul_F]

I'm 71 and have no intention of retiring my bikes in the near future. However, this winter, for the first time, my knees have been giving me a bit of pain. I hope not, but the knees may make the decision for me.

 

[1957mpd]

MSF Check Out?

I'm a returning rider. First BMW was bought in high school (1975) and I continued riding - more on than off - until I decided not to fight the rain in the Pacific NW. Now retired, about to turn 61, and back in the high desert of the Land of Enchantment, I have taken it up again. Like some of you, I'm also a pilot and in aviation we have a tradition - and a law - requiring periodic re-currency check-out rides. Just a way of letting someone else observe our skills and performance. So when I returned, I looked to the local MSF to do the same thing. But in these parts they do not offer the "Returning Rider" course so I decided, what the hell, take the Basic Rider course. It's just 2 nights of classroom and 2 days on the range. In Las Cruces this is also available through the HD dealership for slightly more cost but with the advantage of using 500cc Sportsters; a nearer example of the larger bikes most of us own/ride than the usual MSF-provided <250cc.

I agree with everyone above who has written words similar to, "you just know when it's time." But for those responsible enough to even be asking the question, I think it'd be a great tradition if as we aged, and unrecorded by any regulatory nanny state, we sign up for a MSF or similar course once in a while just to ask an objective person to tell us what they see. As a side benefit, we might have an opportunity to share our experience with newer riders who have little and instructors who oft' times have little more - BUT ONLY IF WE'RE ASKED TO! I'm a new guy here, but as I understand it, this would reflect the tradition of BMW MOA rider "re"education.

Two cents maybe worth less.

 

[BCKRider]

I'm a returning rider. First BMW was bought in high school (1975) and I continued riding - more on than off - until I decided not to fight the rain in the Pacific NW. Now retired, about to turn 61, and back in the high desert of the Land of Enchantment, I have taken it up again. Like some of you, I'm also a pilot and in aviation we have a tradition - and a law - requiring periodic re-currency check-out rides. Just a way of letting someone else observe our skills and performance. So when I returned, I looked to the local MSF to do the same thing. But in these parts they do not offer the "Returning Rider" course so I decided, what the hell, take the Basic Rider course. It's just 2 nights of classroom and 2 days on the range. In Las Cruces this is also available through the HD dealership for slightly more cost but with the advantage of using 500cc Sportsters; a nearer example of the larger bikes most of us own/ride than the usual MSF-provided <250cc.

I agree with everyone above who has written words similar to, "you just know when it's time." But for those responsible enough to even be asking the question, I think it'd be a great tradition if as we aged, and unrecorded by any regulatory nanny state, we sign up for a MSF or similar course once in a while just to ask an objective person to tell us what they see. As a side benefit, we might have an opportunity to share our experience with newer riders who have little and instructors who oft' times have little more - BUT ONLY IF WE'RE ASKED TO! I'm a new guy here, but as I understand it, this would reflect the tradition of BMW MOA rider "re"education.

Two cents maybe worth less.

As a returning rider, your post doesn't make it clear what training you had as a beginning rider. If you were basically self-taught or received your training from equally un-trained friends, a basic course might be a very good idea. I think two of David Hough's books, "Proficient Motorcycling" and "More Proficient Motorcycling," should be on your must own and read list. They contain not only parking lot drills beyond what you will receive in any basic MC course but also a lot of the mental stuff that is maybe even more important in keeping you relatively safe on the road. I believe both actual practice and thinking ahead are equally important if we want to survive in this method of travel.

There are numerous schools (some on the road, some on a track) which are generally revued well by people who have taken the courses. Many of the riders who have been around for a lot of years and a lot of miles have taken several of them. I think there are also a lot of riders who are not as passionate about improving their skills, or even maintaining them. Not many people get their MC endorsement lifted - or even their driver's license in old age. My suggestion is to do everything possible to improve your skills as a rider so you can stay out of the way of the less skilled. People will do what they will do.

 

[1957mpd]

As a returning rider, your post doesn't make it clear what training you had as a beginning rider.

I didn't want to make an already too long (and preachy) post even longer. I began my riding career with a 1974 equivalent to the present MSF Basic Rider course. My high school in VA then offered not only "drivers ed," but motorcycle-specific drivers ed. Fast forward, when the MSF programs came along where I was living, I participated in several, partly to improve riding skill and awareness but to be honest, mostly to earn insurance discounts which used to be more substantial than today. As a "returning rider" my choice to participate in a "beginning rider" course is driven by the fact it is the only thing offered in this area. Is it too remedial for someone with nearly 35+ yrs and 150K+ miles of riding experience - almost certainly. But I am hoping the instructors have more than the approved curriculum to offer a returning old guy.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

 

[BCKRider]

I didn't want to make an already too long (and preachy) post even longer. I began my riding career with a 1974 equivalent to the present MSF Basic Rider course. My high school in VA then offered not only "drivers ed," but motorcycle-specific drivers ed. Fast forward, when the MSF programs came along where I was living, I participated in several, partly to improve riding skill and awareness but to be honest, mostly to earn insurance discounts which used to be more substantial than today. As a "returning rider" my choice to participate in a "beginning rider" course is driven by the fact it is the only thing offered in this area. Is it too remedial for someone with nearly 35+ yrs and 150K+ miles of riding experience - almost certainly. But I am hoping the instructors have more than the approved curriculum to offer a returning old guy.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

Thanks Mark for the clarification. I believe MSF instructors have to "go by the book" even with people with your years and miles of experience. (Could be wrong. Maybe some current MSF instructors will read this and set us both straight.) Another approach to "on the road" coaching is to join a local BMW club, make some friends, and see if anyone is willing to ride behind you and make both positive and negative comments about your riding. I did this as a beginner and a couple friends, skilled riders, were very helpful, not only in pointing out things I did wrong, but boosting my self-confidence.

If you can learn from reading (and I realize there are smart people who can't,) then by all means get the two David Hough books I recommended. There are a LOT of other books on riding - often with contradictory advice - but I believe the Hough books are respected by almost all serious riders.

I wish you a long, safe, and enjoyable time as a returning rider.

 

[rangerreece]

Spot on post Doug. The only thing I would add: as a BMW MOA member you qualify for the full Paul B. Scholarship through the foundation... apply for that via email on the website. Also, if your willing to travel a bit, there are some more advanced training opportunities out there. Even MSF has advanced rider courses available.

 

[179212]

Older person stuff

I turn 66 tomorrow which means I am young around here I think, 2 quick points
1: MSF basic rider course I need or should practice the basic rider skills, the parking lot stuff, is it better to do it on my R1100RS or their 125cc whatever? I just had to renew my driver license, I Almost flunked the motorcycle written test (I had to take written test because in the past because myself and deputy dan had some disagreements after everyone agreed Dan was right and money changed hands all was well and I had to take written test when I went for new enhanced security license ). Questions I missed one on slow speed lean the bike you don't lean, lean the bike you lean, or duck the bike all over the place like your on a Harley, the question on riding across rr tracks, Illinois wants you to cross at an angle most think that is wrong. I skipped the question, on a 2 lane road, car closing rapidly from rear do you speed up to get closer to car in front , slow down, move to left wheel track, move to right wheel track, I did not see my preferred choice safely pass slow car and get the heck out of dodge. MSF guys what is the answer to the skipped question?
2: selling the bike Get a bicycle lots of folk peddle around on bikes when not riding motorcycles, don't be one of them get one of those bicycles with the electric power pack and a motor, they look like great fun, or get the electric scooter looks like fun, light weight, little maintenance.
Ok 2 not so quick points, have fun whatsoever you do.

 

[1957mpd]

as a BMW MOA member you qualify for the full Paul B. Scholarship through the foundation... apply for that via email on the website. Also, if your willing to travel a bit, there are some more advanced training opportunities out there. Even MSF has advanced rider courses available.

Reece: I did this. The Foundation accepted my request and is filling the tuition gap between what BMW is contributing - a "benefit" that comes with a new bike purchase - and the actual cost of the class I'm taking. I also keep my eyes open for any other rider training and education opportunities that do not have a comma in their fee. Thanks.

 

[1957mpd]

If you can learn from reading (and I realize there are smart people who can't,) then by all means get the two David Hough books I recommended. There are a LOT of other books on riding - often with contradictory advice - but I believe the Hough books are respected by almost all serious riders.

Bought 'em both, Doug. (Amazon Prime is great.) One of the things aviation and motorcycling share is the opportunity to learn from the experience of others while sitting in a comfortable chair, with a good reading light, and the adult beverage of your choice....

This is HD country, and there's nothin' wrong with those folks, but I'm actively searching for Bavarian aficionados in this part of the high desert SW.

Thanks, again.

 

[greenwald]

Thanks Mark for the clarification. I believe MSF instructors have to "go by the book" even with people with your years and miles of experience. (Could be wrong. Maybe some current MSF instructors will read this and set us both straight.) Another approach to "on the road" coaching is to join a local BMW club, make some friends, and see if anyone is willing to ride behind you and make both positive and negative comments about your riding. I did this as a beginner and a couple friends, skilled riders, were very helpful, not only in pointing out things I did wrong, but boosting my self-confidence.

If you can learn from reading (and I realize there are smart people who can't,) then by all means get the two David Hough books I recommended. There are a LOT of other books on riding - often with contradictory advice - but I believe the Hough books are respected by almost all serious riders.

I wish you a long, safe, and enjoyable time as a returning rider.

PM headed your way.

 

[greenwald]

I turn 66 tomorrow which means I am young around here I think, 2 quick points
1: MSF basic rider course I need or should practice the basic rider skills, the parking lot stuff, is it better to do it on my R1100RS or their 125cc whatever? I just had to renew my driver license, I Almost flunked the motorcycle written test (I had to take written test because in the past because myself and deputy dan had some disagreements after everyone agreed Dan was right and money changed hands all was well and I had to take written test when I went for new enhanced security license ). Questions I missed one on slow speed lean the bike you don't lean, lean the bike you lean, or duck the bike all over the place like your on a Harley, the question on riding across rr tracks, Illinois wants you to cross at an angle most think that is wrong. I skipped the question, on a 2 lane road, car closing rapidly from rear do you speed up to get closer to car in front , slow down, move to left wheel track, move to right wheel track, I did not see my preferred choice safely pass slow car and get the heck out of dodge. MSF guys what is the answer to the skipped question?
2: selling the bike Get a bicycle lots of folk peddle around on bikes when not riding motorcycles, don't be one of them get one of those bicycles with the electric power pack and a motor, they look like great fun, or get the electric scooter looks like fun, light weight, little maintenance.
Ok 2 not so quick points, have fun whatsoever you do.

PM on the way.