36654
New member
But.....I wear a full-face helmet!
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Proposed Change to Rally Fee
- Thread starter royce
- Start date
But.....I wear a full-face helmet!
I'm not sure I get it
St Paul was my first rally. I can't quit thinking how great a deal it was. Really? $50 for al of that? I'll be in Billings next year!
I'm a little afraid that day passes are going to screw up a great deal. If someone will pay $30 or $35 for a day pass, then maybe the whole rally should be $80, or maybe $90...it would also help with the lost revenue from the folks now only paying for a day, who used to pay for the whole rally.
I don't buy the idea that locals might come look and join. I just don't, unless they have a BMW and then the price is cheap enough to not really be a barrier. I was (for all intents) a local this year. I came because it was in my backyard. The $50 was not in any way a factor, it didn't take long looking at what was available to see it was a good deal.
You only want to come for one day and that is all You want to pay for? Fine. I don't listen to the bands so I want a discount. I Also don't look at the vintage bikes so don't charge me for that. Oh, and I don't want any of the riding courses either. I do drink beer but you charge me for that, but free coffee? No thanks. I'd rather have the discount.
The only argument that makes any sense to me... I have a buddy who happens to live close by and I want to be able to drink a beer with him at the rally. I get this one. I'm just not sure how you police it. Suddenly everyone has a buddy riding a Beemer. How about day passes for people who can prove they live within 50 miles AND have a "sponsor " who is a MOA member and paid attendant at the rally.
My .02.
Flame suit on.
St Paul was my first rally. I can't quit thinking how great a deal it was. Really? $50 for al of that? I'll be in Billings next year!
I'm a little afraid that day passes are going to screw up a great deal. If someone will pay $30 or $35 for a day pass, then maybe the whole rally should be $80, or maybe $90...it would also help with the lost revenue from the folks now only paying for a day, who used to pay for the whole rally.
I don't buy the idea that locals might come look and join. I just don't, unless they have a BMW and then the price is cheap enough to not really be a barrier. I was (for all intents) a local this year. I came because it was in my backyard. The $50 was not in any way a factor, it didn't take long looking at what was available to see it was a good deal.
You only want to come for one day and that is all You want to pay for? Fine. I don't listen to the bands so I want a discount. I Also don't look at the vintage bikes so don't charge me for that. Oh, and I don't want any of the riding courses either. I do drink beer but you charge me for that, but free coffee? No thanks. I'd rather have the discount.
The only argument that makes any sense to me... I have a buddy who happens to live close by and I want to be able to drink a beer with him at the rally. I get this one. I'm just not sure how you police it. Suddenly everyone has a buddy riding a Beemer. How about day passes for people who can prove they live within 50 miles AND have a "sponsor " who is a MOA member and paid attendant at the rally.
My .02.
Flame suit on.
fastdogs2
New member
Day pass vs. full attendance
My experience is not as extensive as many of you, but I will put my $.02 into the discussion, based on my reading of the posts.
I have been a BMW owner since 2002 and have attended five previous rallies before St. Paul. I have never camped at any of them because I prefer the luxury of a hotel bed, air conditioning and ready access to a bathroom. If you are a camper, that is great. I am not condemning you, but only stating my individual preference.
The only rally I have attended that was urban based was the recent St. Paul rally. All the others were in essentially rural based areas (Lima, Johnson City, Sedalia, Bloomsburg, Essex Junction). I list Essex Junction, VT, as rural based, because although it might be an urban center for Vermont natives, it would probably not be listed with the major population centers of the U.S., certainly not comparable with Minn/St. Paul. My experience was that once you left the greater Burlington, VT area, it was not too long that you were in the country, with excellent riding.
The urban based theme may be the key to the requests for day passes, since the tone of the posts suggest that the locals wanted to be able to bring family and friends to the rally without paying the full three day ticket price. I did not see such requests surface on the forum after the other rally events. Perhaps because there was not the population of local BMW riders in those other cities to draw such interest.
As others have questioned, what would the attraction for locals be, other than the beer tent and entertainment? If they don't own/ride BMW motorcycles, they would not have much interest in purchasing gear from the vendors. They might enjoy the stunt riders and GS Giants and the various costumes worn by attendees (I am always amused by the clothing combinations and personal appearances - riding boots with shorts, long riding socks with shorts, kilts, suspenders and belts together, old guys with white hair/beards who look like Santa Claus). The seminars would be of limited value to non-riders, particularly the motorcycle touring trips.
I could understand the day pass concept, since the only rallies I attended all three days were Johnson City and Sedalia. Usually two days are enough for me to tour the vendors and buy, visit the Vintage bikes, check out some seminars, and watch people. I really appreciated the large selection at the Country Store at the St. Paul rally and that was enough to lure me back for a second day, in order to pick up some t-shirts I should have bought on day one.
Unless the rally is located in an area where there are some enjoyable day rides, most of my riding is spent in getting to the rally and I use the rally as a rest from the long days spent on the motorcycle seat. Traveling to St. Paul via the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and returning along the Great River Road provided me the riding excitement that the immediate St. Paul riding area lacked. I would venture to guess if the rally is located in an area with great local riding, many folks will visit the rally for one day and use the rest of the time exploring local roads. Lima, Johnson City, Essex Junction, Bloomsburg and Sedalia had great local area riding. That may be an argument for one day passes, in that folks would rather use the rally as a base and spend most days riding locally, only to return to the rally area each night to eat/sleep.
As far as the $50 fee is concerned, I am amazed that guys who ride BMW motorcycles would think that amount of cash flow would cause a financial collapse of their portfolios. Come on guys, put it into perspective. I would bet many of you spend that much in two weeks visiting Starbucks. I can put my spare change into a piggy bank throughout the year to have enough to fund the $50 rally fee and I am retired on a fixed income.
Putting my flame suit on also.
Bill
My experience is not as extensive as many of you, but I will put my $.02 into the discussion, based on my reading of the posts.
I have been a BMW owner since 2002 and have attended five previous rallies before St. Paul. I have never camped at any of them because I prefer the luxury of a hotel bed, air conditioning and ready access to a bathroom. If you are a camper, that is great. I am not condemning you, but only stating my individual preference.
The only rally I have attended that was urban based was the recent St. Paul rally. All the others were in essentially rural based areas (Lima, Johnson City, Sedalia, Bloomsburg, Essex Junction). I list Essex Junction, VT, as rural based, because although it might be an urban center for Vermont natives, it would probably not be listed with the major population centers of the U.S., certainly not comparable with Minn/St. Paul. My experience was that once you left the greater Burlington, VT area, it was not too long that you were in the country, with excellent riding.
The urban based theme may be the key to the requests for day passes, since the tone of the posts suggest that the locals wanted to be able to bring family and friends to the rally without paying the full three day ticket price. I did not see such requests surface on the forum after the other rally events. Perhaps because there was not the population of local BMW riders in those other cities to draw such interest.
As others have questioned, what would the attraction for locals be, other than the beer tent and entertainment? If they don't own/ride BMW motorcycles, they would not have much interest in purchasing gear from the vendors. They might enjoy the stunt riders and GS Giants and the various costumes worn by attendees (I am always amused by the clothing combinations and personal appearances - riding boots with shorts, long riding socks with shorts, kilts, suspenders and belts together, old guys with white hair/beards who look like Santa Claus). The seminars would be of limited value to non-riders, particularly the motorcycle touring trips.
I could understand the day pass concept, since the only rallies I attended all three days were Johnson City and Sedalia. Usually two days are enough for me to tour the vendors and buy, visit the Vintage bikes, check out some seminars, and watch people. I really appreciated the large selection at the Country Store at the St. Paul rally and that was enough to lure me back for a second day, in order to pick up some t-shirts I should have bought on day one.
Unless the rally is located in an area where there are some enjoyable day rides, most of my riding is spent in getting to the rally and I use the rally as a rest from the long days spent on the motorcycle seat. Traveling to St. Paul via the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and returning along the Great River Road provided me the riding excitement that the immediate St. Paul riding area lacked. I would venture to guess if the rally is located in an area with great local riding, many folks will visit the rally for one day and use the rest of the time exploring local roads. Lima, Johnson City, Essex Junction, Bloomsburg and Sedalia had great local area riding. That may be an argument for one day passes, in that folks would rather use the rally as a base and spend most days riding locally, only to return to the rally area each night to eat/sleep.
As far as the $50 fee is concerned, I am amazed that guys who ride BMW motorcycles would think that amount of cash flow would cause a financial collapse of their portfolios. Come on guys, put it into perspective. I would bet many of you spend that much in two weeks visiting Starbucks. I can put my spare change into a piggy bank throughout the year to have enough to fund the $50 rally fee and I am retired on a fixed income.
Putting my flame suit on also.
Bill
Last edited:
i-scream-stop
iscream-stop
I think if you were going to offer a day pass, the best way to do it would be to have only one day available, charge a decent fee that makes the full price as not that bad of a deal like $30-35, and then not allow those in any of the door prize drawings. You have to make it a value for the ones that are going to do the three days, but allow outsiders to get in and experience the people, vendors and atmosphere if you want the club to grow.
pglaves
#13338
Let me add a little perspective. I've attended every national since Missoula 1984 except Moodus 93 when I had just changed jobs and had zero vacation days. Voni has attended every one since 1984.
It happens Voni is more or less a Minnesota native, having grown up and graduated high school in a Minneapolis suburb, and she has two sisters who reside in the MSP metropolitan area. It would have been very nice to have been able to show the family members around, but at the non-member-at-the gate price of $80 a head that was soon going to get into the few hundred dollar range. So that didn't happen and we got to have our little secret exclusive party all by ourselves.
This can be done or changed but it would require the commitment of many or the whole thing subbed-out- substantially increasing costs.
As something that I have been involved with, with paid staff/facility/management, is coming up, I thought I'd post the breakdown.
This is for attendees only! The exhibitors have a whole 'nother nut to crack.
TCIA Member
Early Registration: $255
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $300
Non-TCIA Member
Early Registration: $295
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $345
Includes unlimited access to Thursday, Friday and Saturday educational seminars, plus trade show entrance for all three days, keynote seminar, forums and the welcome reception.
If you are considering purchasing three or more individual seminars, you will save money by selecting a Gold Card.
Bonus! - If your company purchases four Gold Cards, you get one free! In order to qualify, you must purchase all five Gold Cards at the same time.
Early Registration Discount
Register by Friday, October 10, 2014 and save up to 33%!
Additional Registration Options:
Trade Show Only Pass
TCIA Member
Early Registration: $20
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $30
Non-TCIA Member
Early Registration: $30
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $40
Includes trade show access, plus all free forums, the keynote session and the welcome reception.
Bonus! - If your company purchases four Trade Show Only passes, you get one free. In order to qualify, you must order them at the same time.
Friday Only Pass (November 14)
Early Registration: $200
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $225
Includes trade show access for Friday-only, and ALL education sessions on Friday.
Individual Seminars
Early Registration: $85 each
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $100
Includes trade show access for all three days, all free forums, keynote session and welcome reception.
Planning to sign up for three or more individual seminars? Take advantage of Gold Card savings for the best deal!
Pre-Conference Workshops
Wednesday, November 12
8:00 a.m. ? 5:00 p.m.
Electrical Hazards Awareness Program (EHAP) | Limited seating, manuals and lunch included
TCIA Member $95; Non-Member $145
9:00 a.m. ? 4:30 p.m.
A-Z Pruning | Limited seating, ANSI A300 Pruning standard and lunch included
TCIA Member $195; Non-Member $260
9:00 a.m. ? 4:30 p.m.
Plant Health Care | Limited seating, manuals and lunch included
TCIA Member $195; Non-Member $260
1:00 p.m. ? 5:00 p.m.
Slay the Monsters, Improve Your Bottom Line | Limited seating
TCIA Member $135; Non-Member $150
OM
As something that I have been involved with, with paid staff/facility/management, is coming up, I thought I'd post the breakdown.
This is for attendees only! The exhibitors have a whole 'nother nut to crack.
TCIA Member
Early Registration: $255
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $300
Non-TCIA Member
Early Registration: $295
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $345
Includes unlimited access to Thursday, Friday and Saturday educational seminars, plus trade show entrance for all three days, keynote seminar, forums and the welcome reception.
If you are considering purchasing three or more individual seminars, you will save money by selecting a Gold Card.
Bonus! - If your company purchases four Gold Cards, you get one free! In order to qualify, you must purchase all five Gold Cards at the same time.
Early Registration Discount
Register by Friday, October 10, 2014 and save up to 33%!
Additional Registration Options:
Trade Show Only Pass
TCIA Member
Early Registration: $20
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $30
Non-TCIA Member
Early Registration: $30
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $40
Includes trade show access, plus all free forums, the keynote session and the welcome reception.
Bonus! - If your company purchases four Trade Show Only passes, you get one free. In order to qualify, you must order them at the same time.
Friday Only Pass (November 14)
Early Registration: $200
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $225
Includes trade show access for Friday-only, and ALL education sessions on Friday.
Individual Seminars
Early Registration: $85 each
After Early Registration (10/10/14): $100
Includes trade show access for all three days, all free forums, keynote session and welcome reception.
Planning to sign up for three or more individual seminars? Take advantage of Gold Card savings for the best deal!
Pre-Conference Workshops
Wednesday, November 12
8:00 a.m. ? 5:00 p.m.
Electrical Hazards Awareness Program (EHAP) | Limited seating, manuals and lunch included
TCIA Member $95; Non-Member $145
9:00 a.m. ? 4:30 p.m.
A-Z Pruning | Limited seating, ANSI A300 Pruning standard and lunch included
TCIA Member $195; Non-Member $260
9:00 a.m. ? 4:30 p.m.
Plant Health Care | Limited seating, manuals and lunch included
TCIA Member $195; Non-Member $260
1:00 p.m. ? 5:00 p.m.
Slay the Monsters, Improve Your Bottom Line | Limited seating
TCIA Member $135; Non-Member $150
OM
52184
GTRider
+1
This is the exact situation I found myself in at MSP. I have a brother and sister in the MSP area, with spouses, and would have loved to have treated them to a day at the rally so they could see the vintage display and take in some of the sights and sounds of the rally. Probably would have given my sister, an internationally known scientist who has always thought me riding my MC around the country was a crazy thing, a good grounding in what really holds this sport together. And I knew my brother, a computer programmer, would be into the gearhead aspects of the rally. And, both of them--and their spouses--would have come away with a new level of respect and appreciation for BMWMOA, BMW motorcycles, and motorcycling in general. And we'd all have enjoyed the time together and a trip to the beer garden and a bite to eat. But that idea was priced right out of possibility.
I'll have the same situation next year in Billings, where another two of my relatives live. I'd love to be able to treat them to a day pass or guest pass or whatever one wants to call it. Unfortunately, it looks like there is a lot of old-school thinking here that feels the rank and file membership will try to use the daypass idea to get a cheap visitation to the rally. If that is the concern, and the approach taken to offset it is to lock down admission so that one can only buy the full-boat rally fee, then in essence what that is saying is that a significant proportion of membership or prospective membership is not willing to spend the $$ for all three days of the rally. Why? Maybe the product being sold lacks appeal for the younger and less affluent rider or prospective rider? The rally has followed the same basic formula since I attended my first one back in 1990; maybe that format doesn't have sufficient appeal to the younger or less affluent rider? Should the discussion be not just about the dollars and cents aspects of the daypass but also about some analysis about what we could and should be offering to that segment of riders outside we graying and increasingly wrinkled rally rats? Just pondering...
At any rate, it's long past time to be offering a daypass or guest pass option. We need it to appeal to non-members, we need it to appeal to younger and less-affluent riders, and we need it to be able to accommodate the desire of members to bring a guest or multiple guests to the rally. Make it a one-day deal, on only the Saturday of the rally, make it use a different armband and not be eligible for prize drawings, make it's purchase only available to or attached to an existing member, or put any other restriction upon it that you want. It's time to at least give it a fair trial and Billings would be a great place to do that.
IMHO, of course.
Best,
DG
Visian
look out!!!
KenDittrick
Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197
+2! If we keep it simple as stated for a single day on Saturday etc. It becomes much more manageable for MOA (us) and maximizes exposure (weekend day, tons of events, activities and vendors) for those casually interested potential members.
Ken.
Ken.
Having worked as a registration volunteer at the 2013 rally, I would support a day pass set up of some kind. Different colour wrist bands for number of days makes sense and wouldn't be a problem to administer. I had a few people that came to the rally just to talk to the venders about products etc. The only way we could make that happen was if I went to the vender and had him return to the registration area to talk with the person interested. I ended up doing this and the vendor was not impressed that we didn't have some kind of day pass set up and it also tied up a registration volunteer and we could only entertain this if it was quiet.
It is all too easy to say no but if you want these type of events to continue you have to adapt. I agree day passes may be more applicable in the major urban centers as you might get more attendance and yes it would affect the number of people that bought the full 3 day pass, but to do nothing is similar to putting your head in the sand. Day passes wouldn't entitle the person to any daily draws, but they could purchase raffle tickets on bikes etc. Some common sense approach would work the best and in designing a day pass system have a single and family rate.
The 2015 Rally in Billings is a small enough center that it would be a good place to try a day pass system out and then there would be some information available to determine if it worked or not. I realize the object is to make money but there is also a need to make the event open to a wider audience.
And yes there will always be the idiots that try to beat the system and cheat, but do you cater to that 1% or the 99 % that are not there to cause problems.
It is all too easy to say no but if you want these type of events to continue you have to adapt. I agree day passes may be more applicable in the major urban centers as you might get more attendance and yes it would affect the number of people that bought the full 3 day pass, but to do nothing is similar to putting your head in the sand. Day passes wouldn't entitle the person to any daily draws, but they could purchase raffle tickets on bikes etc. Some common sense approach would work the best and in designing a day pass system have a single and family rate.
The 2015 Rally in Billings is a small enough center that it would be a good place to try a day pass system out and then there would be some information available to determine if it worked or not. I realize the object is to make money but there is also a need to make the event open to a wider audience.
And yes there will always be the idiots that try to beat the system and cheat, but do you cater to that 1% or the 99 % that are not there to cause problems.
pglaves
#13338
I just got home from the Chili Cookoff here in Terlingua, Texas - 10,000 or so folks attend. We were there for today only and had a black and white speckled armband which differed from the red arm bands that full all-week participants wore. I'm not sure how a bunch of chili cooks and enthusiasts can figure out how to make this work better than BMW riders, but they can and they have. Been doing the cookoff for 48 years and day passes haven't ruined it for them yet, but time will tell I guess.
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beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
+10, Double Gunny! Day passes for our Annual BMW International Rally are long overdue, AZ Beemers have been doing day passes for our RoadRunner Rally for 30+ years now with absolutely no problems! It's not Rocket Science Folks, it's so easy even a Honda or Harley rider could figure it out! jes' sayin' and nuff said!
Justscootin
Jeff Wilson life member
This is what they do at the BMW motorad days at mosport park here in Ontario
