Preparing for Death.

[belquar]

I know many of you have experienced this so here goes...

My father-in-law smoked for 40+ years. He is only 60 and looks like he is 90+. He got the official word that we (at least my wife and I) already knew. He has Stage IV adenocarcinoma of the lungs with metastatic disease in his spine and ribs. C4, L4, rib number 6 and 12 to be specific.

My sister is an oncology professional and she provides me with a wealth of info but I wanted to hear from ya'll.

My in-laws, god bless em, are kinda....well....ignorant. They don't understand much in the way of medical terminology and don't ask questions to inform themselves. Ignorance is bliss sorta thing.

After getting the biopsy results today we went out to eat and then went to their house. My mother-in-law was washing the dishes and said to me... "ya just don't know. Nobody is saying whether or not he is going to live or die." I was just flabbergasted. I looked at her and said...."YOU DON'T KNOW?" And she says, "NO, why do you?" At which point my wife called me out of the room to save me from myself. I honestly think they don't understand that his prognosis is less than six months. My wife feels the same way. She thinks they don't get it or they are still in total denial. She is trying to feel them out without scaring the crap out of them, but some things need to be taken care of.

And they don't seem to feel the urgency that they should to begin treatments. Not that they have to if they choose that path, but I am pretty sure they will. My father-in-law had a scan back in December for some shoulder pain and it showed the masses in his lungs had returned post-resection. At that time I urged them to get rolling on treatments. Push for diagnostics and confirmation so they could begin treating. He was still probably stage 1 or 2 then. Now he is full blown Stage 4. And they just kinda mosey on through, somewhat aware that things are starting to get serious but still not being proactive in seeking treatments.

I don't expect them to freak out and start panic dialing every oncologist in the book, but I feel they really don't know that death is now very imminent.

How do you tell someone that?

I do not look forward to the coming months of pain. I hate that I have to watch my wife go through this. She is really close with her Dad. SUCKS.

Thanks for listening to me vent.

Brian

 

[beemerred]

Getting Help.

I do not know the answers here but I do know that a neutral/trusted someone needs to come to the rescue and help explain his options and diagnoses. A family friend, a clergyman that they know and can talk to, or some hospice person who has dealt with these issues can explain it to them better because they`ve done it before and they are trained to do it and they will not get as emotional as someone as close as you and your wife are to the situation. It is hard for some people to understand the medical stuff without taking away their hope and faith. If that happens you can write him off that much sooner. My father-in-law had chemo and radiation treatments the first time and had some sucess but the second time it came back he knew the consequences and he knew the effect the treatments had on his body and emotions and therefore he chose not to suffer through that torment again and remained resolved to enjoy family and friends as much as he could for as long as he could because the second time around he knew the outcome and had prepared himself for it. Good Luck finding some expertise and remember that someone is saying a prayer for your family! Kerry Key aka beemerred

 

[Bud]

I can not tell you how sorry I am for you and your wife.

I'm not sure that anyone will be able to help them. Denial is such a strong thing.

You will be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[From MARS]

My father died when he was 65, from lymphatic cancer, after undergoing over 2 years of chemo, radiation, and anything else they could think of. It was a sad way to spend the last part of his life. I think he did it because some of my siblings told him he had to "fight" the cancer, and that he would be okay if he just took the treatments, but everybody knew it was pointless. They didn't want to accept the inevitable, and Dad suffered for it.

People are amazingly strong when dealing with the facts. It is the uncertainties that make acceptance hard. Your father-in-law needs to know the truth about all aspects of what is to come. He and his wife need to make the decision about the future, and any treatments, without the additional pressure of trying to please. They will choose what is best for them. The family must accept their decision and support it.

Shortly after my father died, an aunt found out she had breast cancer and untreated had another 6-8 months. When they told her she could get an additional six months if she had the radical mastectomy and chemo/radiation, she quietly asked of no one in particular, "What's another six months?" The last year of her life was filled with the things she wanted to do. After a short period of being bedridden, she died in her sleep in her own bed.

That's my experience in dealing with this question. It is something we will all go through if we outlive our parents. You and your family have my hope that by the time he dies, be it soon or years from now, everyone will have made their peace and said whatever they have to say.

Tom

 

[BOKRIJDER]

Brian,

Nothing wrong with venting, it's part of the process. Your wife's parents will work things out. The situation is earth shattering; everyone must work through it on their own schedule and in their own way.

Motard

 

[Polarbear]

Pray

Denial is a strength medium, so many use to get ignor the most serious of lifes struggles, I feel. We put off the inevitable as long as we can and then we suffer, hopefully a short period where our lives are less than what we've lived. This sound deep, it is. No doubt, your Dad knows his situation well and has his way in his outward denial of the situation towards his closest family. Its got to be so very tough to know you are failing and life is coming to an end. He knows and his way of dealing with it is stay normal as long as possible and ignor it. Cannot blame him much, as many of us would probably do the same. Be with your Dad as long as possible and love him deeply, as it should be. Pray a lot for his well being and your family may well see this through. Your wife needs your ultimate support and you must be there for her and all will be good in the end. God Bless our souls Randy13233"Polarbear"

 

[ultracyclist]

I am there now..

My mother and father are sharing a room in a convalescent facility.

She has COPD, vascular dementia, and respiratory complications to many to mention.
She is receiving hospice care.

My father has cardiac insufficiency, heart failure, and other things.

My siblings and I had meetings with the gerontologist, the hospice crew, and the social workers.

Then we had meetings with my father, the hospice crew (a 4 person team: clergy, social worker, case manager, and team leader), and gerontologist.

He now understands what is going one with my mom after avoiding "things".
He also understands that he may never leave the place either.

Every family is different, but this mix worked for us.

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that my mom and dad would sharing a room in a nursing home with both of them being critically ill.

Ride safe

 

[bobh41]

Struggling with the Grim Reaper

is about the toughest thing people have to face, either to directly experience dying or to watch a loved one go. Denial may not be your response but for some it's the best they can do. You obviously realize that making your father-in-law as comfortable as possible through the last days of his life is the best you can do. That's the important issue.

Unless the man's children are directly needed to assist him in this period there's little point in taking on the chore of trying to make them understand the inevitable; they will each get it in their own way, and they will handle it. You will have to look beyond the pain that you and your wife are experiencing and focus on the best possible resolve for your Dad, and I know that may be a tall order. Try to make sure you are not projecting your own pain, anger and frustration on family members - that won't help anybody.

My father's family - an infinite succession of very close farmers here in the Midwest - are so matter-of-fact about death it makes you wonder if they feel anything with regard to dying, but they are profoundly aware and feel deeply about each other. It's really a blessing to all involved to be able to "handle" this event in an orderly way, without the massive anxiety, confusion, and "mystery" that so often accompanies dying.

I wish you the best in this situation. You should know that your part in this is a blessing to your father-in-law. You may have to bite your tongue and hold back some of your feelings toward the family - but you can do it, and bring the strength that is needed here.

(I apologize if this comes across as "preachy" - I'm remembering the insanity of my in-laws, excepting my wife, when their mother died a victim of poorly managed cancer.)

 

[RIK]

When mom in law was diagnosed lymphoma at 83, she new time was up. She just wanted to be home. And that is where she passed a month later. Dad in law is 88 and chain smokes. We all know he is failing, as does he, but like mom, he says "I'm 88 what the hells the difference". Is it painfull? yes, but they are set in their ways and that's it.
In my case I didn't hear what was being explained because of the shock. When the doc said to me "You have cancer" I can recall only very loud noise and thinking about how to tell my wife and son, my mom and dad. I had the doc explain it twice more before I fully understood.
Can only say from my experience, explain to them both again, they might not have heard all that was said. Then allow them to decide.

 

[JK]

I know many of you have experienced this so here goes...

My father-in-law smoked for 40+ years. He is only 60 and looks like he is 90+. He got the official word that we (at least my wife and I) already knew. He has Stage IV adenocarcinoma of the lungs with metastatic disease in his spine and ribs. C4, L4, rib number 6 and 12 to be specific.

My sister is an oncology professional and she provides me with a wealth of info but I wanted to hear from ya'll.

My in-laws, god bless em, are kinda....well....ignorant. They don't understand much in the way of medical terminology and don't ask questions to inform themselves. Ignorance is bliss sorta thing.

After getting the biopsy results today we went out to eat and then went to their house. My mother-in-law was washing the dishes and said to me... "ya just don't know. Nobody is saying whether or not he is going to live or die." I was just flabbergasted. I looked at her and said...."YOU DON'T KNOW?" And she says, "NO, why do you?" At which point my wife called me out of the room to save me from myself. I honestly think they don't understand that his prognosis is less than six months. My wife feels the same way. She thinks they don't get it or they are still in total denial. She is trying to feel them out without scaring the crap out of them, but some things need to be taken care of.

And they don't seem to feel the urgency that they should to begin treatments. Not that they have to if they choose that path, but I am pretty sure they will. My father-in-law had a scan back in December for some shoulder pain and it showed the masses in his lungs had returned post-resection. At that time I urged them to get rolling on treatments. Push for diagnostics and confirmation so they could begin treating. He was still probably stage 1 or 2 then. Now he is full blown Stage 4. And they just kinda mosey on through, somewhat aware that things are starting to get serious but still not being proactive in seeking treatments.

I don't expect them to freak out and start panic dialing every oncologist in the book, but I feel they really don't know that death is now very imminent.

How do you tell someone that?

I do not look forward to the coming months of pain. I hate that I have to watch my wife go through this. She is really close with her Dad. SUCKS.

Thanks for listening to me vent.

Brian

Hi Brian -

My heart felt condolences for you and your family. Sadly, your choices are to either celebrate life, or to prepare for death and dying. There's books like "Death be not proud" that share the grieving process, and many a hospice that help make the "transition" easier for both patient and family.

My own bias is to make each and every day count. Adversity forges the character and conviction of everybody involved. Take a pilgrimage down memory lane. Reconnect with old family and friends. Instead of saying "goodbye," say "hello!" From current culture, watch the "Bucket List" and other great films and plays. Enjoy the company of family over great food and fine wine. Travel while the heart and health allow it.

Most importantly, however, is the art of actively listening and learning the wisdom of 60 years from a life well lived. A mirror to the soul, reflect the warmth of peace and passion, and resist the fear of anger, confusion, and isolation.

In summary, each of us is merely mortal. And the sense of death helps us define our view of life and its choice of purpose and priorities.

In closing, above all, make the upcoming process meaningful for everyone involved. The more you learn from others, the more you learn about yourself and life's quest for self-realization.


J.K.

P.S. Phil Lesh's own experience in lossing his father is expressed in the song "Box of Rain," and is well worth listening to. Also, reach out and experience the power of hope and prayer.

 

[BOKRIJDER]

Hi Brian -

My heart felt condolences for you and your family. Sadly, your choices are to either celebrate life, or to prepare for death and dying. There's books like "Death be not proud" that share the grieving process, and many a hospice that help make the "transition" easier for both patient and family.

My own bias is to make each and every day count. Adversity forges the character and conviction of everybody involved. Take a pilgrimage down memory lane. Reconnect with old family and friends. Instead of saying "goodbye," say "hello!" From current culture, watch the "Bucket List" and other great films and plays. Enjoy the company of family over great food and fine wine. Travel while the heart and health allow it.

Most importantly, however, is the art of actively listening and learning the wisdom of 60 years from a life well lived. A mirror to the soul, reflect the warmth of peace and passion, and resist the fear of anger, confusion, and isolation.

In summary, each of us is merely mortal. And the sense of death helps us define our view of life and its choice of purpose and priorities.

In closing, above all, make the upcoming process meaningful for everyone involved. The more you learn from others, the more you learn about yourself and life's quest for self-realization.


J.K.

P.S. Phil Lesh's own experience in lossing his father is expressed in the song "Box of Rain," and is well worth listening to. Also, reach out and experience the power of hope and prayer.

JK

Thanks, you've made this Saturday morning a bit easier. Last evening, my younger brother, a fellow motorcyclist, passed away after a long battle with cancer. Three years ago, he was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer. His initial prognosis, 6 months to 1 year. Modern medicine gave him 2 1/2 years of additional time, easy-no, but quality-yes. Quality because he made the years quality time - two new bikes and thousands of miles on the road; I couldn't keep up with him. Statdawg may have some photos, which he can dig up.
I was sitting at the computer and the phone last night passing the sad news to friends when Brian's thread popped up, didn't have the fortitude to post a long reply.

Thank you J.K. for picking up the ball for me, well said.
Brian, it'll work out, family is strong.

Motard

 

[osbornk]

I suspect your father-in-law knows his situation. I had a best friend first cousin who told me he had terminal cancer 3 years before he died even though most people thought he was in denial. He never admitted to anyone else that he even had cancer and regardless of how he felt, he always answered "Great" whenever anyone asked him he was. He simply decided to make the best of whatever life he had left. About 3 months before he died, I found him in the back yard planting an apple tree. When I asked him what he was doing, he simply said "You have to plan on living".

He simply accepted what was going to happen to him and made the best of it.

Ken

 

[voni]

Hugs, and many caring friends is my wish to you.

The gift of it all is that we hold those we love closer when we lose someone we care about.

And plan to live, not just sleepwalk through it.

Voni

 

[montana]

I think some of this might be easier for you if you look at it differently; your wife might also find some comfort in a different perspective. Keep using "denial" and that sets up a struggle, a conflict. It is his choice to move through life and take whatever steps or action or inaction. You may not make those choices for yourself in this situation and you may have hopes that a different choice for him would offer an outcome he seems willing to forego, but it's still his life and his choice.

The hardest thing I've ever done for a loved one is respect their medical directives as they moved from chronic to acute to death. It's the biggest gift you can give them, to let them live what is left of their life however they want to live it. In my case it was to keep having procedures done per my grandmother's wishes, to watch her have tubes and a ventilator installed, to see her handled like a piece of meat as her body deteriorated. I finally set a DNR when we were able to confirm she understood that her request to have the ventilator removed might be unwise, but she made it clear once it was off she didn't want it replaced. She lived a whole week without it. Which is just as well, considering she'd already nearly died a month earlier and I'd flown out every two weeks to deal with her and her stuff, and I'd cleaned out her house and given away her clothes.

I could go on about the miracle of my chain-smoking father-in-law who was registered with hospice for years until they kicked him off the list. He's in his mid-90s now. When we visit, we all roll outside with his wheelchair to visit while he smokes. In our family we call it "getting a smoker's tan" when we visit with him.

 

[swbell]

As i've read this thread there is a couple of things I would like to share:

1) Earlier this year, 2nd week of Jan, I had the opportunity to sit with my grandma who decided to leave this earth on her terms. It was a great week to be with her, however when I left I knew it was only a matter of hours. She decided to stop her dyalsis treatment. There was peace because she was perpared.

2) There is a scripture that comes to mind: Ps 39:5 "Behold, Thou hast made my days {as} handbreadths, and my lifetime as nothing in Thy sight, surely every man at his best is a mere breath."

I've meditated on this scripture many of times in the fall when sitting in a deer stand, watching my breath leave my mouth and then disappearing.

Ultimately life is short and I need to make the most of it and enjoy what has been given me. I also need to keep investing into my own children and those around me. IÔÇÖm typing this in a coffee shop as my wife is spending time with her grandmother who is 92. That is one reason I ride the cycle NOW and not wait until later in life to enjoy all that there is to enjoy on this earth.

Thanks for listening.

 

[revkev]

I certainly do pray for the best in all of the losses that have been shared. Death is close to everyone yet easily denied or ignored.

My perspective is that of a father whose son was killed in an auto wreck four years ago. This was and continues to be extremely painful for me, my wife and our other two sons. We miss him daily and yet try not to "cling" to him because in the end his days in this life are numbered by the Lord, as are mine. Also, he was only ours for a time and now belongs where he is, with the Lord who created him and called him by name, in this life and eternal life. He was merely on loan to us and we enjoyed his presence immensely.

That said, another perspective that I have is from that of being a pastor and for the past year serving and learning as a hospital chaplain where death and tragedy is always close at hand. In many ways there can be a real "denial" of death in the health care system. The system is designed to keep the living, living and for many who serve in health care, death is a failure, personal and systematic. Not everyone thinks like this of course but it is common. I run into many patients within my church and without who are never "told" that they are, in fact, close to death and will die soon. They are encouraged to be cheerful and optimistic so they can keep up the fight. In the end, death catches everyone. So, in my humble opinion there is a very fragile balance between "fighting on" and "facing" the reality that exists, death is close at hand. As a pastor my view of this life is less important than that which follows but this isn't the place to share that. End of life decisions are difficult and even more difficult when it is a loved one. I am not in the position to tell others the decisions they make for their own lives but at times I try to balance hope with a healthy realism of how things actually are. One cannot get rid of denial but another perspective is helpful at times. That said, it often is not wanted nor is it appreciated by those facing death.

May the Lord heal all those who grieve.

 

[redclfco]

Brian

So many of us have had to watch our parents/in-laws go down this way, I feel for ya and fully recognize the feeling of helplessness you and your wife must feel.

I watched my 76 yr old father with smokerÔÇÖs lungs choose between slowing down a bit and living another 10 or so years or going in for the triple. He never made it off the respirator. It will always bother me that he walked in to that hospital on his own elective; he could of stopped, and lived on. The odds were not in his favor, but he couldn't hear the words.

Hang in there. As a group we can't feel your pain, nor can we take it away; but we can sure as hell relate to what you are going through.



Red

 

[AFHRNFA1]

preparing for Death

I am sorry for you loss

 

[MOTOR31]

Brian,

Cancer makes the world a small place indeed. My maternal Grandmother died of it before I was born. My Mother had it and survived another 20+ years and my Wife is a survivor of 8+ years to date.

All you really can do is be there for your wife more than anyone else. Your In laws may or may not understand the situation. They may also feel that they do not want to deal with it as that would be interfering with the "plan" of their lives. If they are deciding to do nothing, that's their choice hard as it is to stand by and watch them make it.

Your Wife might want to ask their family Doctor for a consultation and find out what the In laws were told. Medico techno babble is hard to decifer and many saw bones have forgotten how to speak to a layman. Then again there may be no extention possible, just pain and suffereing sooner by treatment.

FWIW you have my thoughts and prayers for you and your wife. I hope that the both of you are able to see this through and grow closer together. We are all just temporary passengers on this ball of dirt, none stay forever.

 

[Troutluck]

My mother was given a month to live with lung cancer (second bout) and was placed in hospice (God bless them). Although the cancer never went into remission, her overall condition actually *improved* over the course of a year, and baffled the doctors who never expected to see her again. She succumbed suddenly, and peacefully, in the 12th month. I was lucky enough to be with her.

I don't deny that doctors know what they are doing, but I do believe that the human animal has enough variations that you can't ever be as precise as "X-number of months to live," nor is it worth anyone's time to speculate on one's quality of life leading up to "Month X."

Live as long as you can.