Pontificating about Safety features I would like to see in NEW BMW motorcycles

[lmo1131]

Couldn't be Hell, California... .. at least not today.

 

[junkjohn]

Finally!! My mother told me when I was a kid that I could get a Rupp Roadster mini bike "When Hell Freezes Over". Looks like today is the day.

 

[lmo1131]

+1 Rupp

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Somewhat nebulous information, given you don't identify your location in your forum header.

Don't be puzzled--it was a general comment that applies to everywhere it's very hot right now, and there am ample places in the northern hemisphere that fit the bill right now. That screenshot was from Chico, California.

 

[BC1100S]

That screenshot was from Chico, California.

Please tell me the forecast is for something a bit more, um, temperate. I'll be in the area in 10 days.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Please tell me the forecast is for something a bit more, um, temperate. I'll be in the area in 10 days.

We're in a temperature inversion of sorts so look for Chico to stay hot, maybe around 100 according to the current guess 10 days out. I did an 800 mile loop to get out of the heat and had 3 days of fantastic temps on the coast and in the mountains around Shasta Lake. I rode home this morning from Dunsmuir to Paradise CA and left at 5:05am this morning and had a lovely ride w/ temps ranging from 62 to 88, but mostly high 70's to low 80's, so very pleasant. Having had a whole lot of twisties on Day 1 and Day 2 I bailed on the twistie route home on Day 3 and opted for beating the heat so took I-5 and got home in 2h25m and it was a pleasant sunrise and relaxing cruise home. RTW is such a fine Sport Tourer--nothing beats it to ride on any kind of pavement! Put me right at 24K miles so did the oil/filter and FD oil changes but will wait until morning to tackle all the tupperware removal to get to the bloody airbox!

 

[22600]

Thank you Ajax

I don't mean any of these to replace rider skills. I always need to be vigilant and paranoid at all times, and I am. I have several hundred thousand miles on two wheels and it may kill me someday but at least I'll go out doing what I love to do. I find motorcycling to be a good and healthy outlet for the schizophrenia/paranoia that runs in my family. I am only half kidding. Come to think about it I might not be kidding at all.

My mantra has been don't trust anyone around you on the road. And it is getting worse between distractions and drugs and just plain that anyone can get a license to drive a car now regardless of the ability, maturity, or understanding of the responsibility that the driving a two ton object brings. And then there are the wackos, I can’t explain why they do what they do but they are out there. Any time, any place.

Have you ever seen the display on a modern fighter jet? There are many assists because things just happen too fast to be turning your head and looking all around for dangers around you. That went out with WWI and II. I think we are entering a new era of motorcycling and we need new tools and assists.

Anyway, back to BMW bikes and what I would like to see:

1. Turn on the brake lights when the motorcycle is decelerating. When in traffic and my buddy lets off the gas on his K1200GT his bike slows down fast without any warning. He can downshift several times slowing way down without any indication to those behind him. My smart phone can detect deceleration, so why shouldn’t my bike be able to also? Turn on the brake light!

2. Blinking brake lights - I have these because I added them on aftermarket. but I have noticed that new cars have the third (high on the back window) lights that now blink 3 times when a car brakes. It doesn't have to be the whole motorcycle brake light, but some portion of it should flash when we brake. Hopefully this will catch the eye of the distracted driver and make them notice us.

3. Blind spot radar or whatever it is on cars that shows a red dot in the rear mirror when there is someone within "X" feet of your tail end on either side. I have ridden in a Ford car that had this feature. I won't count on this alone to make sure no one is at my side but when it is ON I will probably won’t move until I am absolutely sure no one is in my blind spot. Even when It is not on I will look anyway.

4. An oscillating headlight for daytime use. If you have ever ridden through Kansas you know what a long, long stretch of two lane highway does to your depth perception. Bikes need to be seen far away. Ideally this could be turned off and on, or maybe auto on when radar indicates no one is near.

5. A kickstand warning - You are stopped but it is not down. I have dropped a couple of bikes thinking the stand was down when it wasn't. Yes, I am stupid, but it has happened. Judging from widespread sales of tip over protections there are many who either have done this or worry about it. Just a little tiny dash light that is red when not down and green when it is. It's a very costly error on a K or R bike, I know that firsthand. Super embarrassing too.

6. OK this one is an outlier, but I sure would like it. How many times have you pulled up to an intersection, put your feet down and found roller bearing gravel beneath them? Many for me. I even considered putting golf cleats on my boots to help with this. In a Jetson’s world there would be a couple of kickstand on either side that shoot out when your bike is at a standstill and exceeding a certain angle so that it doesn’t fall over. Ideally these would retract when you start moving. I did say Jetson’s didn’t I?

I am not advocating for the nanny state. Like I said I would not expect any of these to replace rider skills. I am thinking more like supplement. Some of these are features that are now in use on cars, of which there are many more than bikes, so they must be somewhat reliable.

Recently I looked at a brand new RT. Impressive, color display, etc. It made me think however how much more useful it would be to have a few of these features rather than a color display. Don't get me wrong, a color display is nice, but it’s not essential.

I have crashed a couple of times and luckily been able to walk away without serious long term injuries and continue to ride. I hope I never have to stop. I would like to see these features as a optional safety package and truthfully I’d be willing to pay at least a couple of grand for them. In the BMW motorcycle world that probably means $5,000.

So what I am looking for here is not if you don’t think you need these, but more about other safety ideas you may have. Not trying to dumb it down or make anyone buy or do what they don’t want to.

___________________________________

I enjoyed the read; it's always interesting to see other's thoughts. And, I got a good laugh out of some of it. Post more !

 

[daboo]

I'm not sure I want more changed. I like the fact that I have to think far more when I get on my bike than when I get in the car. A couple days off of riding, and I can tell the difference.

As for the first point, the brake lights... for the same reasons specified, I don't want any brake lights to come on when I decelerate. I find the cars behind me tend to back off a lot when they come up upon me without any brake light warning. They treat me like anyone treats a car with malfunctioning brake lights...they back way off. That's the effect I want. The first year I started riding again, I tried to give drivers behind me some warning by lightly applying my brakes. The only effect that made was my brake pads wore down quicker and the cars followed me closer. I've added an additional LED brake light that blinks for @$30. Works good when I want it.

As men, we have so few challenges any more. I want a bike that makes me think. It's part of the experience of riding.

Chris

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Around here, if you flash someone, you better be behind them, or they are going to think you are letting them go for it. Flash is to pass.

I've heard of this unspoken 'convention' but what I was referring to, and didn't state it, is rapid flashing along w/ a horn blast. The urgency implied w/ rapid flashing and blasting can't be construed as 'OK, go ahead and turn into my lane', and certainly from when I've done this that message seemed clearly to be what was conveyed when the ingress suddenly stops.

 

[ncpbmw1953]

As men, we have so few challenges any more. I want a bike that makes me think. It's part of the experience of riding.

Chris

Coming home in one piece is ample challenge--I'll gladly take any meaningful assistance to lower crash risk but I agree it is quite possible one could become complacent if those assists really worked and one put too much dependance on them. My mantra is maximum alertness and attention to reducing risk all the time while riding, so I strive to be an 'active' rider, always jockeying position to reduce risk.

 

[lmo1131]

I strive to be an 'active' rider, always jockeying position to reduce risk.

Hey, when your number is up, it's up.

That's why I change my number every morning.

 

[daboo]

Coming home in one piece is ample challenge--I'll gladly take any meaningful assistance to lower crash risk but I agree it is quite possible one could become complacent if those assists really worked and one put too much dependance on them. My mantra is maximum alertness and attention to reducing risk all the time while riding, so I strive to be an 'active' rider, always jockeying position to reduce risk.

I'll give you an example of how the technology that was supposed to reduce accidents has made people complacent. Or at least it seems so in my mind. ABS brakes in cars.

When I was growing up in the last century and took Drivers Ed, there was a big push to not tailgate. You followed so many car lengths away from the car in front of you. Later, that changed to following at a two second distance. The person tailgating was the exception, not the rule. Then ABS became standard equipment on all cars. It didn't seem to take long, and a lot more drivers began tailgating. It was like, all they had to do was to mash the brakes and they'd stop without hitting the car ahead of them. (That's not accurate because they still needed to account for their own reaction time, but they were all expert drivers with instantaneous reflexes.) Now look at the freeways, or any road for that matter. The exception is the driver who allows two seconds following distance. So now instead of a two car fender bender, you get multiple car pileups that close the freeway.


What amazes me, are the riders who are less than a bike length away from the car ahead of them. Cars actually can stop quicker than motorcycles, plus you can't see anything like the 2x4 on the road that the car just straddled, but you on the motorcycle will run over and will probably cause you to crash. Added to that, seems to be the car driver behind the motorcyclist who tailgates him. So if the motorcyclist does go down...he's dead.

You (in general) will tell me this can't possibly work where you live, but I do it all the time. I follow what the MSF instructors said, and that is to follow at a four second distance. That allows two seconds for me to recognize the hazard and two seconds to take action to avoid it. It also allows me to use engine braking a lot...which means my rear brake light never lights up. In the morning, it is particularly "fun" to watch the occasional driver behind me wake up. They'll be following a couple seconds behind me. Trying to wake up. Maybe drinking coffee. When all of a sudden they realize this motorcycle in front of them is slowing down. It only takes one or two times at that, and the driver now has fallen about 6-8 seconds behind me. Watch your mirrors, just in case. But I don't want to give the driver behind me any advance warning to encourage them to follow closer. They treat me like someone who has no working brake lights and back way off. In the end, that is much safer than the complacency they can get of knowing I'm slowing down and they can drive closer behind me with that warning.


I also ride actively. My lane positioning is based on "protecting" my space and being visible. I can tell a newbie rider very quickly by seeing where they position themselves on the road. Often, they are off to the side with as much space as possible between them and any cars. What they don't realize is they are also positioning themselves where they can't be seen. And when a car tries to occupy what appears to be empty space...they'll blame it on the car and not their own behavior.

Chris

 

[jopars]

Self Cancelling Turn Signals?

Back on the original subject, I have bought 2 new Japanese bikes in the last few years (2015 Yamaha XT250, and a Kawasaki Versys X300), and neither have self-cancelling turn signals. This despite the fact the Japanese developed this technology 20-30 years ago. They now seem to have abandoned it.
AFAIK, BMWs still have self-cancelling technology, but is it only a matter of time before they too drop them?

More to the point, this tech must suely have reached the point where it can be designed into any machine for almost zero cost, so why are we seeing a decline in the use of this (I think) very important safety feature?

JP

 

[36654]

Back on the original subject, I have bought 2 new Japanese bikes in the last few years (2015 Yamaha XT250, and a Kawasaki Versys X300), and neither have self-cancelling turn signals. This despite the fact the Japanese developed this technology 20-30 years ago. They now seem to have abandoned it.
AFAIK, BMWs still have self-cancelling technology, but is it only a matter of time before they too drop them?

More to the point, this tech must suely have reached the point where it can be designed into any machine for almost zero cost, so why are we seeing a decline in the use of this (I think) very important safety feature?

JP

Self cancelling signals appeared on the K-bikes back in the mid 80's, but then disappeared on the Oilheads, but returned (to my knowledge) on the Showerhead Boxers

 

[ncpbmw1953]

Now look at the freeways, or any road for that matter. The exception is the driver who allows two seconds following distance. So now instead of a two car fender bender, you get multiple car pileups that close the freeway.....What amazes me, are the riders who are less than a bike length away from the car ahead of them. Cars actually can stop quicker than motorcycles

Chris

I'll bet we follow many of the same principles for safe riding practices. But as far as identifying newbies, my wife is one and she followed and learned my behaviors, whereas I see myriad other riders who do what you say, stay stuck in the middle of their lane and close to the vehicle in front of them. The squids are in their own class and depend on reflexes and a sense of invincibility or a death wish I'm not sure which.

It's really preposterous how tailgating is completely ignored where I live. It becomes a triggering event in road rage and certainly contributes to the fact rear end collisions are the most common collision type. Connecticut got tired of tailgating so started a campaign against it a few years ago but I don't know how effective it's been. I think an aggressive anti tailgating campaign would certainly help over tacit approval coming from ignoring this. I sent a well written letter about this to several administrators at the state DMV as well as the Gov's office but never heard back.

When I was in France 2y ago I was impressed by how respectful drivers were to other drivers on our 5h ride to southern areas out of Paris. On 4 lane freeways the default practice was always to pass then get right back into the right line, and never saw one tailgater the entire trip. Where I live people 'park' in the fast lane which sets up for the next would be tailgater. A few choice signs "Stay in the right lane except when passing" could help.

For car v moto braking--it all depends on which car and which bike, let alone the operators. Also, ABS on either vehicle does not allow one to brake quicker--it just helps prevent wheel lock and sometimes that can translate to braking over a longer distance depending the specific machine and rider skill set.

 

[pkpilot]

For car v moto braking--it all depends on which car and which bike, let alone the operators. Also, ABS on either vehicle does not allow one to brake quicker--it just helps prevent wheel lock and sometimes that can translate to braking over a longer distance depending the specific machine and rider skill set.

Finally someone that states the braking debate correctly. Motorcycle braking distance is much more a function of the rider, especially on a ABS equipped bike. It takes training and practice to get the maximum braking on a bike. Not so in a car, just mash the pedal. If both the bike and the motorcycle use maximum braking, the bike has a slight advantage. How many times have you done a maximum braking drill on your bike where the ABS was engaged for the whole time? It is a bit of a ride, but you will stop fast.


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[36654]

Not so in a car, just mash the pedal. If both the bike and the motorcycle use maximum braking, the bike has a slight advantage. How many times have you done a maximum braking drill on your bike where the ABS was engaged for the whole time? It is a bit of a ride, but you will stop fast.

Not arguing with your point, just observing that ABS is now assumed to be the norm. Isn't that a beautiful thing?

 

[daboo]

...If both the bike and the motorcycle use maximum braking, the bike has a slight advantage. ...

What I have in my mind is the guy on the sport bike who is one bike length from the rear bumper of the car ahead of him. Chances are, I will also see a car tailgating him. It's like the car driver in the rear figures if the biker feels it is okay to tailgate, I will also.

I don't care who you are, or how good your bike is...if you are less than a second away from the rear of the car in front of you, you won't brake in time.

Chris

 

[pkpilot]

Not arguing with your point, just observing that ABS is now assumed to be the norm. Isn't that a beautiful thing?

ABS is a beautiful thing, especially after you do a maximum braking drill with and without it. The difference is more than obvious.


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[BC1100S]

Self cancelling signals appeared on the K-bikes back in the mid 80's, but then disappeared on the Oilheads, but returned (to my knowledge) on the Showerhead Boxers

My Oilhead has self-cancelling turn signals. Of course, it IS an S so its special.