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points or electronic ignition?
- Thread starter 2010rt
- Start date
RPGR90s
Member
Points vs. Electronic
I think it comes down to convenience. I left the points in my '74 R90s (140k miles) until a couple of years ago.
I've always been a fan of points, remembering working with my dad in the garage changing them, setting the timing, on our Ford station wagon (429V8!!). I still have my dad's dwell meter.
A few years ago, BMW dealers were getting runs of Chinese made points, that had all sorts of problems. Contacts not aligning and rapid wear of the rub block to name a few.
It so happened that on a few trips, I saw my gap go from .016" to a few thousandths, so I started looking at electronic systems.
I believe BMW went back to the quality Norris points units, but the Motoelektrik system intrigued me. http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm Plus Rick Jones is a good guy!
I installed it two years ago and I've been very happy with it. One selling point was the ignition curve is controlled electronically unlike the Dyna III system which uses the stock advance weights/springs.
I can't say there's any performance improvement, but I did notice the bike fires instantly, hot or cold. And, I'm not pulling the front cover anymore, and risking shorting out the diode board.
RPGR90s
I think it comes down to convenience. I left the points in my '74 R90s (140k miles) until a couple of years ago.
I've always been a fan of points, remembering working with my dad in the garage changing them, setting the timing, on our Ford station wagon (429V8!!). I still have my dad's dwell meter.
A few years ago, BMW dealers were getting runs of Chinese made points, that had all sorts of problems. Contacts not aligning and rapid wear of the rub block to name a few.
It so happened that on a few trips, I saw my gap go from .016" to a few thousandths, so I started looking at electronic systems.
I believe BMW went back to the quality Norris points units, but the Motoelektrik system intrigued me. http://www.motoelekt.com/ignition.htm Plus Rick Jones is a good guy!
I installed it two years ago and I've been very happy with it. One selling point was the ignition curve is controlled electronically unlike the Dyna III system which uses the stock advance weights/springs.
I can't say there's any performance improvement, but I did notice the bike fires instantly, hot or cold. And, I'm not pulling the front cover anymore, and risking shorting out the diode board.
RPGR90s
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stevenrankin
Active member
Lots of threads
There have been lots of comments made in the treads about points versus electronic systems. All I will write is my experiences. Get rid of the points! Go with one of the now varied electronic systems available from vendors.
I had a 77 R75/7 bike as my first BMW. it had points and when they were in proper adjustment and new, they were fine. The problem was, they never stayed new or in proper adjustment. When they went out of adjustment or wore out, the bike would start to ping terribly. Of course, the points would go out of adjustment while I was on a trip far from my garage and I found myself more than one time messing with points in a parking lot on my knees. I traded that bike in for a 83 R80RT with the BMW factory electronic ignition and rode it for 26K miles never having to adjust the timing or mess with anything but normal valve adjustments and carb cable adjustments. That bike was destroyed by broad siding a deer and I purchased an 84 R80RT to replace it. I have had the 84 now since new and it has 240K miles on it. The ONLY times I have ever had to adjust timing is due to timing chain replacements or work where the bean can had to be removed.
I purchased a 78 RS and the first thing I did was install at the time the only system available, a Boyer electronic ignition system. Again like the RT, I have never had to make any timing adjustments of any kind on the RS except when it was torn apart and rebuilt after I got broad sided by a car and it sat in bins for years before being rebuilt. Now that it is running again, I adjusted the timing when it was rebuilt and I have not had to mess with it since. It has 45K on it since I installed the Boyer system.
Now a day, there are three or four different systems available to replace points. If I were to do it over again with the RS, I would go with the system available from Alpha. It is a copy of the BMW system, for the bean can points found in the 79 and 80 bikes as well as a point plate replacement system for bikes earlier than 79. If any of these choices had existed back when I had the 77 bike, I would have changed to electronic then on that bike as well.
The big argument against electronic systems is the ease of changing points if they go bad during a trip. Well, I have never had an electronic system go bad either and It is far easier to change the module or bean can on my 84 than it is to change and adjust points in a parking lot. Okay, I have to carry two items instead of one if I did carry spare ignitions parts on trips. I don't because I don't feel the need to due to the reliability of the electronic system.
My cousin had a Suzuki bike at the same time I had my 77 BMW. He used to laugh at me fussing with points in a parking lot while on a trip while all he had to do with his Suzuki was get on and go. They had electronic ignition years before BMW ever did. St.
There have been lots of comments made in the treads about points versus electronic systems. All I will write is my experiences. Get rid of the points! Go with one of the now varied electronic systems available from vendors.
I had a 77 R75/7 bike as my first BMW. it had points and when they were in proper adjustment and new, they were fine. The problem was, they never stayed new or in proper adjustment. When they went out of adjustment or wore out, the bike would start to ping terribly. Of course, the points would go out of adjustment while I was on a trip far from my garage and I found myself more than one time messing with points in a parking lot on my knees. I traded that bike in for a 83 R80RT with the BMW factory electronic ignition and rode it for 26K miles never having to adjust the timing or mess with anything but normal valve adjustments and carb cable adjustments. That bike was destroyed by broad siding a deer and I purchased an 84 R80RT to replace it. I have had the 84 now since new and it has 240K miles on it. The ONLY times I have ever had to adjust timing is due to timing chain replacements or work where the bean can had to be removed.
I purchased a 78 RS and the first thing I did was install at the time the only system available, a Boyer electronic ignition system. Again like the RT, I have never had to make any timing adjustments of any kind on the RS except when it was torn apart and rebuilt after I got broad sided by a car and it sat in bins for years before being rebuilt. Now that it is running again, I adjusted the timing when it was rebuilt and I have not had to mess with it since. It has 45K on it since I installed the Boyer system.
Now a day, there are three or four different systems available to replace points. If I were to do it over again with the RS, I would go with the system available from Alpha. It is a copy of the BMW system, for the bean can points found in the 79 and 80 bikes as well as a point plate replacement system for bikes earlier than 79. If any of these choices had existed back when I had the 77 bike, I would have changed to electronic then on that bike as well.
The big argument against electronic systems is the ease of changing points if they go bad during a trip. Well, I have never had an electronic system go bad either and It is far easier to change the module or bean can on my 84 than it is to change and adjust points in a parking lot. Okay, I have to carry two items instead of one if I did carry spare ignitions parts on trips. I don't because I don't feel the need to due to the reliability of the electronic system.
My cousin had a Suzuki bike at the same time I had my 77 BMW. He used to laugh at me fussing with points in a parking lot while on a trip while all he had to do with his Suzuki was get on and go. They had electronic ignition years before BMW ever did. St.
Is this the '74 R90/6 you posted about last month?
There are a number of electronic ignitions out there. I run the Dyna III in my /7. I've had good luck with it, though did have to replace it many years back. One consideration on it is that it uses the stock advance unit but replaces the points will Hall sensors. There is a Boyer system as well as crank-mounted ignition systems that can provide more consistent timing.
If you want to stay with points, consider adding what's called a points booster. I'm not totally familiar with all aspects, but it basically (I think) reduces the current running across the points and thus reduces the wear of the points surface. You will still have to monitor the rubbing block on the points assembly as that will still wear over time.
There are a number of electronic ignitions out there. I run the Dyna III in my /7. I've had good luck with it, though did have to replace it many years back. One consideration on it is that it uses the stock advance unit but replaces the points will Hall sensors. There is a Boyer system as well as crank-mounted ignition systems that can provide more consistent timing.
If you want to stay with points, consider adding what's called a points booster. I'm not totally familiar with all aspects, but it basically (I think) reduces the current running across the points and thus reduces the wear of the points surface. You will still have to monitor the rubbing block on the points assembly as that will still wear over time.
Probably the cheapest, most simple way of eliminating the points is a Dyna III system. They don't require any cutting of the original wiring and is about 1-2 hours at most to install. It also will allow timing each cylinder independent of the other side. That will give you a steady timing mark and a smoother running bike. Seems to start easier than the point set up as well. It still retains the mechanical advance as well. I've had one on one r75 for 8 years and never touched it after the install. My experience is they are very reliable.
m_stock10506
Well-known member
I suppose there has to be a really good story to balance out the guys with early failures and breakdowns.
Right after I bought my 1974 R60/6 (used), I had a Dyna III ignition installed by the then local BMW shop.
20 years and 82,000 miles later that Dyna III is still running on that bike. It's still my smoothest running bike.
Right after I bought my 1974 R60/6 (used), I had a Dyna III ignition installed by the then local BMW shop.
20 years and 82,000 miles later that Dyna III is still running on that bike. It's still my smoothest running bike.
I think one factor is how much are you going to ride it.
I'm only getting about 15-1800 miles/yr on my 1978 R80.
I've only got to tune it up about every 3 years or so.
If your going to put on some real miles a electronic system might be the way to go.
As mentioned before if you do keep the points make sure you have the Norris points in there, there were some Chinese make junk points being sold that weren't good.
My bike runs fine now and I run a heated jacket with it.
Sometimes I think about going to the electronic ignition and upgraded alternator.
Nick
1978 R80
I'm only getting about 15-1800 miles/yr on my 1978 R80.
I've only got to tune it up about every 3 years or so.
If your going to put on some real miles a electronic system might be the way to go.
As mentioned before if you do keep the points make sure you have the Norris points in there, there were some Chinese make junk points being sold that weren't good.
My bike runs fine now and I run a heated jacket with it.
Sometimes I think about going to the electronic ignition and upgraded alternator.
Nick
1978 R80
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I would go electronic ignition and never think about it again. I had Japanese bikes with points and it seemed I was constantly adjusting them. Electronic? Hook it up and forget about it.
I always like the comments that "I can fix my points on the road!" Well with electronic you won't have too!
I always like the comments that "I can fix my points on the road!" Well with electronic you won't have too!
stevenrankin
Active member
Lots
Yes, lots has changed since 77 BMW. The past ten years has seen retrofit electronic increase in number from the Dyna system to a whiz bang digital system mounting on the alternator crankshaft instead of the cam. When I installed my Boyer system on my 78 RS, there was no real choice, Boyer, Dyna. Now, there is a system available from Alpha very much like the BMW electronic system with the exception being bikes before 79 used a point plate and after used a bean can. The Alpha system I am talking about eliminates the points and replaces them with a Hall effect sensor just like in the BMW bean can on their system. While I have not seen one on hand, the pictures look as if Alpha has eliminated the advance weight system altogether. Timing control is done digitally.
IF I were to eliminate points on another bike or replace the Boyer system on my RS, I would most likely choose the Alpha system. It has the advantage in there is less wiring changes involved. This holds true on the bikes with the points in a can system.
One of my friends is installing a crank shaft mounted electronic system and I am eagerly awaiting to see how he makes out with the installation and how the customer likes the change. St.
Yes, lots has changed since 77 BMW. The past ten years has seen retrofit electronic increase in number from the Dyna system to a whiz bang digital system mounting on the alternator crankshaft instead of the cam. When I installed my Boyer system on my 78 RS, there was no real choice, Boyer, Dyna. Now, there is a system available from Alpha very much like the BMW electronic system with the exception being bikes before 79 used a point plate and after used a bean can. The Alpha system I am talking about eliminates the points and replaces them with a Hall effect sensor just like in the BMW bean can on their system. While I have not seen one on hand, the pictures look as if Alpha has eliminated the advance weight system altogether. Timing control is done digitally.
IF I were to eliminate points on another bike or replace the Boyer system on my RS, I would most likely choose the Alpha system. It has the advantage in there is less wiring changes involved. This holds true on the bikes with the points in a can system.
One of my friends is installing a crank shaft mounted electronic system and I am eagerly awaiting to see how he makes out with the installation and how the customer likes the change. St.
Digital ignition timing remains consistent until you change it...
With points, ignition timing changes as the points wear. Keeping timing where you want it contributes to the overall stability of engine tune and service life of the engine. Not to mention extracting the best performance out of a gallon of gas. I install Dyna or Boyer in my Airheads. Keep the points components for the possibility of a thermonuclear event as the resulting EMP will kill the digital system.
With points, ignition timing changes as the points wear. Keeping timing where you want it contributes to the overall stability of engine tune and service life of the engine. Not to mention extracting the best performance out of a gallon of gas. I install Dyna or Boyer in my Airheads. Keep the points components for the possibility of a thermonuclear event as the resulting EMP will kill the digital system.
jad01
New member
If you go with the Boyer, I'd suggest calling Bill at Rocky Point Cycle. FWIW, I'm still running mine in the /7- it's nice piece of kit. Bill's a nice guy and can give you good info if you need.
salindroth
New member
spark plugs with or without resistor for Dyna III electronic ignition?
Reviving this old thread since it's close to my question.
I recently bought a 1975 R90/6 that has a Dyna III system installed. I read that spark plugs without a resistor (like the OEM Bosch plugs) could damage the electronic ignition. Wondering if this is true with the Dyna III. Thanks for the advice.
Reviving this old thread since it's close to my question.
I recently bought a 1975 R90/6 that has a Dyna III system installed. I read that spark plugs without a resistor (like the OEM Bosch plugs) could damage the electronic ignition. Wondering if this is true with the Dyna III. Thanks for the advice.
Generally that is true. But what you should have on a /6 is a block-style plug cap which has built in 5K ohm resistance. So you can run the non-resistor plugs but you should have the additional resistance in the plug cap to keep the energy that is released by the plug from working its way back up the spark plug wires to your ignition unit.
