Petition: Keep Ethanol-Free Gas Available

[36654]

Corn shouldn't be used to make alchol when lots of folks could eat the corn.

Try that in Germany..........

 

[moezilla]

When we start importing cheaper ethanol watch what happens to the corn based plants.

Right now we (USA) are exporting ethanol to some foreign markets, and foreign corn producers are crying foul, due to the huge subsidies our government is giving the ethanol industry.

 

[beecher]

Right now we (USA) are exporting ethanol to some foreign markets, and foreign corn producers are crying foul, due to the huge subsidies our government is giving the ethanol industry.

Huge is an understatement. Multi billions of dollars to farmers. Let it stand on its own. Or better yet drink it.

 

[Ken F]

Al Bore just came out a couple of weeks ago and said that Ethanol was not a good idea. The reason he supported it was because he was running in a primary in Iowa, and Iowa grows a lot of corn...



The newest person to admit that this was a ÔÇ£bad ideaÔÇØ (read scam) is none other then Albert Gore.


>Former U.S. vice-president Al Gore said support for corn-based ethanol in the United States was not a good policy, weeks before tax credits are up for renewal. 

ÔÇ£It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for (U.S.) first generation ethanol,ÔÇØ said Gore, speaking at a green energy business conference in Athens sponsored by Marfin Popular Bank.

ÔÇ£First generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small.["]

Ethanol was never a good idea, it raised the global cost of food, has only about 2/3rds the energy capacity of gasoline and winds up being more expensive (because of transportation costs, etc.) then using actual gasoline. So why oh why would the Goreacle work so hard to promote ethanol?

ÔÇ£One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president.ÔÇØ

Politics of course. Gore wanted the rest of America to subsidize his home state farmers and farmers in Iowa so that he could garner more votes. Exactly how much did America subsidize corn farmers for this complete fraudulent use of ethanol? Try about $37 billion dollars during the Clinton administration.

Can we please dispense with the whole ÔÇ£the science is inÔÇØ crap since it has repeatedly been shown that the people behind the environmental movement have been more then wiling to lie, cover-up legitimate research and destroy the careers of people who disagree with them. Again Gore shows us that this movement is a scam to redistribute money. For ethanol it was to take money from Americans and give it to farmers, for global warming itÔÇÖs to take money from Americans and distribute it to the 3rd world. <

 

[Omega Man]

Moderator Interruption....Ladies and Gentlemen, this thread started out on how to save gasoline that would be less harmful to our engines. Going political won't help the thread stay open. Thanks, Gary

 

[PlaneGeek]

To quote Daniel Patrick Moynihan ÔÇ£Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.ÔÇØ

I like that! I'm waiting for the European's to start developing some alternative fuel and preferably electric vehicles. Including electric motorcycles. I guess they don't need it since they have all that awesome public transit infrastructure. Leave it to the good old US to think only for themselves and not the collective good...

 

[PlaneGeek]

Moderator Interruption....Ladies and Gentlemen, this thread started out on how to save gasoline that would be less harmful to our engines. Going political won't help the thread stay open. Thanks, Gary

Um, but isn't a petition is a political function...?

 

[rocketman]

I like that! I'm waiting for the European's to start developing some alternative fuel and preferably electric vehicles. Including electric motorcycles. I guess they don't need it since they have all that awesome public transit infrastructure. Leave it to the good old US to think only for themselves and not the collective good...

yeah, ain't that a great qoute, read it recently in an article in the NY Times.

Actually they (Europe) have been; search for European Alternative Fuel Initiatives, but like so much pertaining to environmental or renewable fuel issues; more rhetoric than actual funding/progress/demand. But why wait for Europe? Brazil has shown alternate fuels can be viable, not necessarily in the same way they are producing it, but rather simply to show there are workable alternatives and they are achievable.
In the end does it really make a difference who or where the technology is developed in facing and finding and leading the way to a solution for a global problem? (other than the fact that the ones who do have an economic advantage).

RM

 

[Ken F]

It was not my intent to turn the thread political. I've been watching since Gore said this for it to show up in the thread...it hasn't.

It is pretty telling to me that Ethanol's "inventor" (so to speak) and greatest proponant
now admits that it was a bad idea, and HIS motives were political.

460

 

[Sanders]

Have you looked at the world price of sugar vs the US price? That's a big reason why all the candy manufacturers went off-shore. Corn production costs and prices will be supported to whatever level is required for ADM and Cargill.

A few years back I found some stats provided by Ag dept I believe which stated that ADM and Cargill recieved 95% of all subsidies for Ethanol refining. At least here in Minnesota where it a mandated 10%. The small farm co-ops might have started a few, way back when, but they are not in control anymore.
So Big Business get tax breaks/incentives/subsidies to build the sthanol refinery's provided by me, a taxpayer, and then I have to pay upwards of .38 cents combined fed and state tax per gallon at the pump when I purchase.... They've got us at both ends.
Back in '06 or '07 when gas hit 4$/gallon here, Ethanol was pushing it up because it was selling for $2.65 a gallon. My employer had huge stocks of the stuff. They made a lot of $$$ selling it off on the spot market and putting it the pipeline, instead of blending it in the fuel, which was why they purchased it in the first place
I too wish that we had a choice at the pump. I do know of 1 place with pure fuel, but its 10 miles away, and a bit of a hassle. Especially for my small engines and winter motorcycle storage.
I've always wondered if ethanol FUBAR'd my fuel strip (gauge) on my '07 GS Adv. all 3 of 'em.
I keep hoping the ethanol industry will go away, but it won't. Major refinery's are buying into them now.

 

[rocketman]

It was not my intent to turn the thread political. I've been watching since Gore said this for it to show up in the thread...it hasn't.

It is pretty telling to me that Ethanol's "inventor" (so to speak) and greatest proponant
now admits that it was a bad idea, and HIS motives were political.

460

No, he didn't say ethenol in and of itself was bad. what he said was,

"It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first generation ethanol. First generation ethanol I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was about to run for president."

So, yes while he feels it is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for first-generation ethanol, (which many supporters of alternative energy aggree with) one has to note he was refering to "the most basic, energy-intensive process of converting corn to ethanol for use as a motor vehicle fuel additive".

As for polical motivations, sure we knew that already, but he hardly "invented" the technology nor is he the driving force behind it anymore than he was the net.

Taking things out of context really is a slippery slope...

RM