Our 2025 Rally : The What, Where & Why... Lebanon Tennessee : June 19-21 2025

[gregfeeler]

IYO, at what number of attendees [ the least number needed ] would make it financially untenable to continue the national rally? 3K? 2K? If we keep losing the numbers in attendance, there has to be a number where the board says, can't do it this year.

How far down the rabbit hole, IYO, will the board go on lack of attendance before cancelling nationals? There's got to be a number that flips the switch to not having enough attend to make it viable anywhere.

You are asking me the same questions as your first post. I didn't mean to imply that the club membership is in endless decline, but it is much smaller than our peak in 2009 of just a smidge over 40,000. Those days are gone for many reasons and the adjustments which had to be made as the memberships has shrunken to (probably) something under 20K have been difficult. It is always easier to grow a thing than to scale it back. Which does relate to your questions.

It's feasible to have a motorcycle rally with two or more people - it's just a matter of expectations. Many successful regional/club rallies only draw 100 to 150 people. The BMW RA has had many of their "national" rallies with between 1,000 and 1,500 people. But - these rallies didn't have the offerings that BMW MOA Rally attendees are used to expecting. They didn't have a BMW demo truck, or hundreds of vendors, or three nights of quality live music (usually two bands on both Friday and Saturday evenings), or give away thousands of dollars in door prizes, or one, two, or three new motorcycles. You get the picture.

To have rallies like what's become the MOA traditional national rally is going to require something in the ballpark of 4,000 people, along with good financial management (expenses, promotion, site costs, etc.). Once you get below 3,000 then I think you would have more difficulty getting good vender participation which is one of the big reasons people come to the rallies. Having said that, I also think that there is something of a natural "bottom" to attendance numbers for our kind of event, and I we've hit that and may be coming back up. I believe that there are enough people riding BMWs - be they MOA members or not - to keep the model viable. A strong MOA will be essential as it takes a bunch of money to bankroll these rallies and wait up to two years for the full payback. BUT - and this is something you and everyone reading this can do to help the MOA - every one of us should bring at least one new person to each rally. These just can't be adequately explained and must be experienced, after which, most people will be back the next chance they can.

To make my point about rally attendance, here's a list of pre and post-COVID attendance numbers. Keep in mind that rallies east of the Mississippi always have higher attendance.

2017 – Salt Lake City, UTAH (fair grounds) -- 4206 (WEST)
2018 – Des Moines, IOWA (fair grounds) -- 4580 (CENTRAL)
2019 – Lebanon, TENNESSEE (exposition center) -- 6018 (EAST)
2020 - Skipped
2021 – Great Falls, MONTANA (expo park) -- 4889 (WEST)
2022 - Springfield, MO -- 4,621 (CENTRAL)
2023 - Doswell, VIRGINIA -- 5,836 (EAST)

 

[gregfeeler]

Maybe it's me but I suspect even with LOW attendance numbers there would still be a National Rally. Heck the RA does it with 1,000 ....yes NOT the same kind of event but for me it's the people and the bikes. I just attended a BMWST event with 100+ attendees and had a blast. Great people, great bikes, great location .... all the rest is just details for me. Isn't the beer garden a big expense with license and insurance? Not sure but just asking. If they cut that out and folks had to BYOB the fun would still happen. Adventure Rallies and Overlanding events are growing so there has to be a way to leverage that segment. Just saying.

Well said. Rallies are "good" or "bad" mostly based on your expectations.

 

[r65_steve]

. BUT - and this is something you and everyone reading this can do to help the MOA - every one of us should bring at least one new person to each rally. These just can't be adequately explained and must be experienced, after which, most people will be back the next chance they can.

I dunno. I come because it gives me a goal place to ride to. I attend solo. I don't spend much money, and I dont really know many people in the club. I'm a younger demo graphic.

I like looking at the old bikes. The stuff for sale is the same year to year. Too many sales pitches for trips I cant afford. The seminars are "meh" or a good place to hide on a hot day. I like camping there cause I won't do it alone in the woods like I think I will. I like the bands in the evening.

I sound grumpy, So things I liked:

TN: the midday bands, going off site for a ride to Jack Daniel's and KY the demo truck, the stunt rider, the lady who showed how to pick up a dropped bike, volunteer working at the t shirt shop, cheap drinks and snacks in the airhead tent.

MO: the fact I rode there from VA. Longest trip ever for me, a day trip to AR and Branson, a trip to the ghost town in OK, Baxter spring KS (a hell raising town), the last minute cover band but the singer got too drunk during the set, watching the GS guys in the horse barn.

VA, day trip to some towns I'd not been to, watching the GS mud pit, the bands but not the blues guy or the comedian, the demo truck...twice!, Wes and George's tech session, sitting around people watching on the grass under the big tree, me and 2 other strangers helping a guy jump start his 1100RT without taking all the plastics off to get to the battery. Took darn near 30.minutes, but it was Fun.

 

[gregfeeler]

I dunno. I come because it gives me a goal place to ride to. I attend solo. I don't spend much money, and I dont really know many people in the club. I'm a younger demo graphic.

I like looking at the old bikes. The stuff for sale is the same year to year. Too many sales pitches for trips I cant afford. The seminars are "meh" or a good place to hide on a hot day. I like camping there cause I won't do it alone in the woods like I think I will. I like the bands in the evening.

I sound grumpy, So things I liked:

TN: the midday bands, going off site for a ride to Jack Daniel's and KY the demo truck, the stunt rider, the lady who showed how to pick up a dropped bike, volunteer working at the t shirt shop, cheap drinks and snacks in the airhead tent.

MO: the fact I rode there from VA. Longest trip ever for me, a day trip to AR and Branson, a trip to the ghost town in OK, Baxter spring KS (a hell raising town), the last minute cover band but the singer got too drunk during the set, watching the GS guys in the horse barn.

VA, day trip to some towns I'd not been to, watching the GS mud pit, the bands but not the blues guy or the comedian, the demo truck...twice!, Wes and George's tech session, sitting around people watching on the grass under the big tree, me and 2 other strangers helping a guy jump start his 1100RT without taking all the plastics off to get to the battery. Took darn near 30.minutes, but it was Fun.

I dunno... sounds to me like you have found more than enough to keep you coming back. The rally is intended to be a smorgasbord of things to do so there's enough for anyone's interests. BTW, the travel pitch "seminars" have been removed from the Seminars schedule and relegated to a separate venue just for vendors. If you haven't seen any of the truly instructional seminars I'd suggest you give them a try.

 

[vetbmwrider]

Further, there are parts of the country where it's always been difficult to find a good site. We have been to Oregon so many times because there just aren't suitable venues in either California or Washington State. The mid-west has a lot of giant fair grounds (Sedilia, Des Moines, St. Paul), but those large venues also are not cheap, and unless the local Convention and Visitors Bureau or similar group can kick in a significant financial off-set we often can't afford them anymore.

Greg I have to disagree with you on this that there is no suitable sites in California or Washington. There are sites in those states meet the requirements, it comes down to historical data that attendance will be lower in those states if a rally was held in these states. We can use MOA membership numbers west coast vs east coast. Most of the MOA membership is located on or near the east coast. That means a rally will be more financially secure and benefit the MOA to hold a rally near the highest population of the club. The main reason to hold a rally in Oregon it satisfies the west coast membership by having a rally near them and put a rally in the middle between the two highest MOA membership states CA and WA). Also the rally numbers show that numbers decrease as you go west form the main population area of the MOA. I recall attending MOA rallies in the past that where more down to earth and meant more to me and my family then the high commercial event that MOA rally is today. The MOA rallies have lost personal touches over the years, by going to these large venues, for someone that has been a member for over 20 plus years i get more joy in riding to the location then being there.

 

[dennypink]

Well said. Rallies are "good" or "bad" mostly based on your expectations.

Hi Greg - thank you for your rally insights! With what appears to be our rally numbers decreasing, could County Fairgrounds be considered for our primary locations? Maybe one way to cut costs; one band per night? Thanks!
DP

 

[hexst]

Well this doesn’t suprise me, seems like the organization has taken the track of we make the rules we can break the rules. I see money as the prime driver. MOA has had event there every year lately and is enamored with the venue. Don’t know if I’ll make it if I do it would just be a stop from Florida to more interesting places for me. Having been to the first National there and have ridden a lot in the area it holds no allure and I could save money by skipping the vendors. There is sure to be other local rally’s over that time that my money would help the local club.

 

[gregfeeler]

Greg I have to disagree with you on this that there is no suitable sites in California or Washington. There are sites in those states meet the requirements, it comes down to historical data that attendance will be lower in those states if a rally was held in these states. We can use MOA membership numbers west coast vs east coast. Most of the MOA membership is located on or near the east coast. That means a rally will be more financially secure and benefit the MOA to hold a rally near the highest population of the club. The main reason to hold a rally in Oregon it satisfies the west coast membership by having a rally near them and put a rally in the middle between the two highest MOA membership states CA and WA). Also the rally numbers show that numbers decrease as you go west form the main population area of the MOA. I recall attending MOA rallies in the past that where more down to earth and meant more to me and my family then the high commercial event that MOA rally is today. The MOA rallies have lost personal touches over the years, by going to these large venues, for someone that has been a member for over 20 plus years i get more joy in riding to the location then being there.

Much to take apart in your post:

As of 2016 when I got off the Board, we had looked for years all over California for a suitable venue (NOTE: suitable) and never did find anything. California has a lot of beautify country but also two of the largest metropolitan areas in the US, and almost all of the places we looked at were embedded in a very dense urban environment (which we didn't think was safe on several levels), or lacked the infrastructure we needed, or were just out of our budget. If anyone can suggest a facility they thing might work, by all means contact Ted Moyer (Executive Director) or Brian Dutcher (MOA President). I'm sure the Rally Site Selection Committee would be interested.

Oregon gets our repeat business because Washington also doesn't have any suitable facilities. I personally looked at everything we could find in Washington State before the Salem rally, and neither facility would come close to working for an MOA rally. Again, things change over time and if anyone has a suggestion - send it in. For their part, the Redmond community welcomed us with open arms for our second rally there, and I'm sure they are again this time. The support of the community is an immense help in putting on a great rally experience. You might think every place would welcome such nice people who spend money, but that's too often not the case. The old tales of "biker gangs" and the stories of contemporary events held by riders of certain other brands of motorcycles can make hosting our rally a hard sell. Universally, AFTER the rally, the town loves us and wants us back. If we don't return as some point, then we waste that good will and what it can do to benefit the club.

I'm not sure what MOA rallies you are referring to as being "more down to earth" over the last 20 years, because I've been to all of them (but Des Monies) and have found them to be a remarkably consistent experience given that each is run by different rally chairs in very different locations year to year. The fact (as I see it) is that once you get above 4,000 or so people, the event is not going to feel like a 1,5000 person RA rally, or local club event. Numbers change things and they give you more vendors, better entertainment, more to see and do, but they also are more crowded and less intimate. Maybe you could expand a bit on what rallies you liked better than others, and why?

 

[gregfeeler]

Well this doesn’t suprise me, seems like the organization has taken the track of we make the rules we can break the rules. I see money as the prime driver. MOA has had event there every year lately and is enamored with the venue. Don’t know if I’ll make it if I do it would just be a stop from Florida to more interesting places for me. Having been to the first National there and have ridden a lot in the area it holds no allure and I could save money by skipping the vendors. There is sure to be other local rally’s over that time that my money would help the local club.

The rally rotation schedule is not a "rule" - it's a policy. It's a practice and a goal, but the overriding consideration is finding the best rally site at the time. As I have said on this thread earlier, I think the membership is due an explanation for this decision, but I will give the Board the benefit of the doubt that they made the best decision they could given the choices they had in front of them. Often a rally location is at the edges of it's zone, and Lebanon, TN is only about 300 miles from Jonesboro, AR which would put the rally into the "promised" Central Zone. Lebanon is also just over 500 miles from Sedalia and Springfield, MO where we've had rallies. Given the size of our Central Zone, I'm willing to call this "close enough:"

I also have to say it amazes me when people say things like, "I see money as the prime driver". The single biggest challenge this club had had since 2008 has been having enough money to provide the quality membership experience you all deserve for your dues. I'd lead the lynch mob to turn out club leaders who didn't keep the financial health of the club on an equal priority with other decision factors. The challenge for your club leadership is, and has always been, to run it like the business it is on the back end, but keep a "big club" feeling for the membership experience. Overall, I think we've done a pretty good job, all things considered. Not perfect, but we are still members - not customers - and the club is still run by member volunteers.

 

[gregfeeler]

Hi Greg - thank you for your rally insights! With what appears to be our rally numbers decreasing, could County Fairgrounds be considered for our primary locations? Maybe one way to cut costs; one band per night? Thanks!
DP

I need to clarify something - I do not think that our rally numbers are continuing to decline. Rather, they have stabilized at an average of 4,574 for West and Central rallies (combined) and 5,025 for all rallies including Eastern ones over the last six events which includes pre- and post-COVID. Those are very good numbers, all things considered, and there's no reason for the foreseeable future to speculate about "what if rally numbers continue to decline".

2017 – Salt Lake City, UTAH (fair grounds) -- 4206 (WEST)
2018 – Des Moines, IOWA (fair grounds) -- 4580 (CENTRAL)
2019 – Lebanon, TENNESSEE (exposition center) -- 6018 (EAST)
2020 - Skipped
2021 – Great Falls, MONTANA (expo park) -- 4889 (WEST)
2022 - Springfield, MO -- 4,621 (CENTRAL)
2023 - Doswell, VIRGINIA -- 5,836 (EAST)

Having said that, in answer to your question about county fairgrounds, we almost always have our events at some kind of fairgrounds, so you are spot on. The rally in Redmond this year is at the Deschutes County Fairground. Fair sites vary tremendously over the US. In many midwestern states the state fair grounds are massive with city-like infrastructure, while in other areas they just are not nearly as popular so the sites are much smaller with far fewer resources. For example, the Idaho State Fair and Expo Center in Boise is not nearly big enough for an MOA rally. It was good for the RA Rally I co-chaired there in 2007, but you could subtract it's space and buildings from the Sedalia, Des Moines, or St. Paul rally sites and hardly notice the loss.

Entertainment can be very expensive, or not so much, depending on choices made. Many quality local or regional bands can be hired for a few thousand dollars a night, especially if you start looking a year in advance to get on their tour schedule early enough that you are part of what forms it and won't have to be squeezed in. It's also possible to spend a lot of $$$, but in the cases where the rally chairs went for top name entertainment, I think they did very well and it adds so much to the event. So, yes, entertainment is an area that needs watching, but there's a line item for it in the rally budget based on prior year's costs, and if the current chairs want to go over that amount they must make up for it in some other area. Overall, the rally budget is very well managed.

 

[gsinnc]

My first National was 2003 in Charleston WV and have attended 14 (including the upcoming Redomond Rally) Some better than others and West Bend WI, Salt Lake and Great Falls were some of my favorites. But honestly ALL were good and enjoyed them all. I realize the work and efforts involved in pulling off this type of event and while I love new destinations happy wherever the Rally takes place. All provide an opportunity to ride, meet old friends, make new friends, see gear and accessories first hand in person and get to hang out with thousands of BMW riders and cool bikes. !!

 

[bigjohnsd]

2026 at the Buffalo Chip!

 

[skibum69]

Thanks for all of the insight gregfeeler, it really helps to show some of the realities involved in hosting rallies the size of the National. Now all I need to do is get to another one!

 

[brownie0486]

Much to take apart in your post:

As of 2016 when I got off the Board, we had looked for years all over California for a suitable venue (NOTE: suitable) and never did find anything. California has a lot of beautify country but also two of the largest metropolitan areas in the US, and almost all of the places we looked at were embedded in a very dense urban environment (which we didn't think was safe on several levels), or lacked the infrastructure we needed, or were just out of our budget. If anyone can suggest a facility they thing might work, by all means contact Ted Moyer (Executive Director) or Brian Dutcher (MOA President). I'm sure the Rally Site Selection Committee would be interested.

Oregon gets our repeat business because Washington also doesn't have any suitable facilities. I personally looked at everything we could find in Washington State before the Salem rally, and neither facility would come close to working for an MOA rally. Again, things change over time and if anyone has a suggestion - send it in. For their part, the Redmond community welcomed us with open arms for our second rally there, and I'm sure they are again this time. The support of the community is an immense help in putting on a great rally experience. You might think every place would welcome such nice people who spend money, but that's too often not the case. The old tales of "biker gangs" and the stories of contemporary events held by riders of certain other brands of motorcycles can make hosting our rally a hard sell. Universally, AFTER the rally, the town loves us and wants us back. If we don't return as some point, then we waste that good will and what it can do to benefit the club.

I'm not sure what MOA rallies you are referring to as being "more down to earth" over the last 20 years, because I've been to all of them (but Des Monies) and have found them to be a remarkably consistent experience given that each is run by different rally chairs in very different locations year to year. The fact (as I see it) is that once you get above 4,000 or so people, the event is not going to feel like a 1,5000 person RA rally, or local club event. Numbers change things and they give you more vendors, better entertainment, more to see and do, but they also are more crowded and less intimate. Maybe you could expand a bit on what rallies you liked better than others, and why?

Do you anticipate a day when the acceptable venue choices become even scarcer than they are in some states today and result in the nationals being held in just a few cities/states in each zone? IOW,, the choices becoming less and less over the coming years. I ask because as someone mentioned, Tenn welcomes the MOA with open arms, and where it's being held there in a year that's not that zone, do you think Lebanon will just become the venue for east zone, another city for mid and west zones?

 

[vetbmwrider]

As of 2016 when I got off the Board, we had looked for years all over California for a suitable venue (NOTE: suitable) and never did find anything. California has a lot of beautify country but also two of the largest metropolitan areas in the US, and almost all of the places we looked at were embedded in a very dense urban environment (which we didn't think was safe on several levels), or lacked the infrastructure we needed, or were just out of our budget. If anyone can suggest a facility they thing might work, by all means contact Ted Moyer (Executive Director) or Brian Dutcher (MOA President). I'm sure the Rally Site Selection Committee would be interested.

Without knowing what has been vetted or not. After 20 min of googling California largest fairgrounds, I was able to identify 4 possible sites not in heavily urban area that would not be safety concerns and appear largest enough to hold a event and have buildings and sq feet. Now without the current spec sheet of requirement that the MOA uses to find and vet sites. I can only go by past conversation I have had MOA BOD members and use my aging mind what was on the spec sheet that the MOA used in the past to identify protentional rally site.

Madera District Fairgrounds1850 W Cleveland Ave, Madera, CA 93637 www.maderafair.​

10 plus hotels

Eastern Sierra Tri-County Fair, 475 Sierra St, Bishop, CA 93514 tricountyfair.com
15 plus hotels

Mariposa Fairgrounds & Exposition Center 5007 Fairgrounds Rd, Mariposa, CA 95338 www.mariposafair.com​

serval hotel and B&B in the area

Gold Country Fairgrounds & Event Center 209 Fairgate Rd, Auburn, Ca 95603 goldcountryfair.com​

12 plus hotels

Now with Washington State you can google (Washington State largest county fairgrounds) this will pull up several sites here a couple sites.

Grant County Fairgrounds 3953 Airway Dr NE, Moses Lake, WA 98837 gcfairgrounds.com

Lincoln County Fairgrounds 1601 Morgan St, Davenport, WA 99122 lincolncountywafair.com

With today highspeed internet I find it hard that MOA cannot identify any rally sites within the third largest State in the US or find a rally site with a 17
state region. Yes, I do understand the cost and numbers of putting on a rally you have a break even number and that changes with each rally site and to hold a rally it comes down to the number game. We can look into the cost ledger and identify each cost and what it takes to put on a rally and that would bore most people to death. A very good friend to me and the MOA, once stated that MOA does this very well. When they put on a rally it can be compared to a 3 ring circus. You have camping, vendors and entertainment for each ring. The MOA has this down to a science and with each improvement the MOA has made over the years it has lost it personality this can for good or bad depending on that person. After not attending several rally's and attending the last 2 rally's for me the rally's have gone so commercial it has taken the enjoyment out attending.

 

[gsinnc]

As of 2016 when I got off the Board, we had looked for years all over California for a suitable venue (NOTE: suitable) and never did find anything. California has a lot of beautify country but also two of the largest metropolitan areas in the US, and almost all of the places we looked at were embedded in a very dense urban environment (which we didn't think was safe on several levels), or lacked the infrastructure we needed, or were just out of our budget. If anyone can suggest a facility they thing might work, by all means contact Ted Moyer (Executive Director) or Brian Dutcher (MOA President). I'm sure the Rally Site Selection Committee would be interested.

Without knowing what has been vetted or not. After 20 min of googling California largest fairgrounds, I was able to identify 4 possible sites not in heavily urban area that would not be safety concerns and appear largest enough to hold a event and have buildings and sq feet. Now without the current spec sheet of requirement that the MOA uses to find and vet sites. I can only go by past conversation I have had MOA BOD members and use my aging mind what was on the spec sheet that the MOA used in the past to identify protentional rally site.

Madera District Fairgrounds1850 W Cleveland Ave, Madera, CA 93637 www.maderafair.​

10 plus hotels

Eastern Sierra Tri-County Fair, 475 Sierra St, Bishop, CA 93514 tricountyfair.com
15 plus hotels

Mariposa Fairgrounds & Exposition Center 5007 Fairgrounds Rd, Mariposa, CA 95338 www.mariposafair.com​

serval hotel and B&B in the area

Gold Country Fairgrounds & Event Center 209 Fairgate Rd, Auburn, Ca 95603 goldcountryfair.com​

12 plus hotels

Now with Washington State you can google (Washington State largest county fairgrounds) this will pull up several sites here a couple sites.

Grant County Fairgrounds 3953 Airway Dr NE, Moses Lake, WA 98837 gcfairgrounds.com

Lincoln County Fairgrounds 1601 Morgan St, Davenport, WA 99122 lincolncountywafair.com

With today highspeed internet I find it hard that MOA cannot identify any rally sites within the third largest State in the US or find a rally site with a 17
state region. Yes, I do understand the cost and numbers of putting on a rally you have a break even number and that changes with each rally site and to hold a rally it comes down to the number game. We can look into the cost ledger and identify each cost and what it takes to put on a rally and that would bore most people to death. A very good friend to me and the MOA, once stated that MOA does this very well. When they put on a rally it can be compared to a 3 ring circus. You have camping, vendors and entertainment for each ring. The MOA has this down to a science and with each improvement the MOA has made over the years it has lost it personality this can for good or bad depending on that person. After not attending several rally's and attending the last 2 rally's for me the rally's have gone so commercial it has taken the enjoyment out attending.

Well there you go. Off to California we go. And in 20 minutes. Dang !!

 

[gregfeeler]

Do you anticipate a day when the acceptable venue choices become even scarcer than they are in some states today and result in the nationals being held in just a few cities/states in each zone? IOW,, the choices becoming less and less over the coming years. I ask because as someone mentioned, Tenn welcomes the MOA with open arms, and where it's being held there in a year that's not that zone, do you think Lebanon will just become the venue for east zone, another city for mid and west zones?

No, I don't see us ever cycling back and fourth between a handful of rally sites. There are some areas of the US where it has always been difficult or "impossible" to find locations and that will continue However, it's a core part of the MOA rally experience to go to a different place each year, and for any given year a site which was not suitable for some reason previously might have that reason go away and become an option. So, in a way "new" ones open up all the time. However, that statement includes the idea of revisiting particularly good and popular sites every five+ years. This is something the membership has asked for over the years - to go back to "great" rally sites - and it makes perfect sense to do so - just as long as we don't do it too often.

The final requirements for any site that otherwise checks all the boxes on our list are: price, availability, and willingness on the part of the site management. Some sites look great but want too much money. A few years later that's not working for them, so the price comes down, or the local CVB decides they need more tourist business, so they offer to buy done the site fee by $10,000 or $20,000.

A site could be not be available when we want it. We had to wait for three or for years for Billings, MT for that reason, and it's been that way for many sites as they try to be booked out as far as possible.

And, finally, the people managing the site have to want to work with us, and they don't always. This is the deciding factor more often than you would think. As an example: we looked at the Sale Lake City site sometime between 2010 to 2012. The place was "tired" and the people running it were very unwilling to try to make it work for us. Five or six years later, the Sate of Utah had decided to revitalize the place, so had refurbished many buildings, added some new ones, and installed a management team with the goal of making it a financial success. They reached out to us and with both sides willing to cooperate, a deal was done. The whole community got behind our rally.

 

[gregfeeler]

As of 2016 when I got off the Board, we had looked for years all over California for a suitable venue (NOTE: suitable) and never did find anything. California has a lot of beautify country but also two of the largest metropolitan areas in the US, and almost all of the places we looked at were embedded in a very dense urban environment (which we didn't think was safe on several levels), or lacked the infrastructure we needed, or were just out of our budget. If anyone can suggest a facility they thing might work, by all means contact Ted Moyer (Executive Director) or Brian Dutcher (MOA President). I'm sure the Rally Site Selection Committee would be interested.

Without knowing what has been vetted or not. After 20 min of googling California largest fairgrounds, I was able to identify 4 possible sites not in heavily urban area that would not be safety concerns and appear largest enough to hold a event and have buildings and sq feet. Now without the current spec sheet of requirement that the MOA uses to find and vet sites. I can only go by past conversation I have had MOA BOD members and use my aging mind what was on the spec sheet that the MOA used in the past to identify protentional rally site.

Madera District Fairgrounds1850 W Cleveland Ave, Madera, CA 93637 www.maderafair.​

10 plus hotels

Eastern Sierra Tri-County Fair, 475 Sierra St, Bishop, CA 93514 tricountyfair.com
15 plus hotels

Mariposa Fairgrounds & Exposition Center 5007 Fairgrounds Rd, Mariposa, CA 95338 www.mariposafair.com​

serval hotel and B&B in the area

Gold Country Fairgrounds & Event Center 209 Fairgate Rd, Auburn, Ca 95603 goldcountryfair.com​

12 plus hotels

Now with Washington State you can google (Washington State largest county fairgrounds) this will pull up several sites here a couple sites.

Grant County Fairgrounds 3953 Airway Dr NE, Moses Lake, WA 98837 gcfairgrounds.com

Lincoln County Fairgrounds 1601 Morgan St, Davenport, WA 99122 lincolncountywafair.com

With today highspeed internet I find it hard that MOA cannot identify any rally sites within the third largest State in the US or find a rally site with a 17
state region. Yes, I do understand the cost and numbers of putting on a rally you have a break even number and that changes with each rally site and to hold a rally it comes down to the number game. We can look into the cost ledger and identify each cost and what it takes to put on a rally and that would bore most people to death. A very good friend to me and the MOA, once stated that MOA does this very well. When they put on a rally it can be compared to a 3 ring circus. You have camping, vendors and entertainment for each ring. The MOA has this down to a science and with each improvement the MOA has made over the years it has lost it personality this can for good or bad depending on that person. After not attending several rally's and attending the last 2 rally's for me the rally's have gone so commercial it has taken the enjoyment out attending.

I appreciate your efforts, but I'm not going to get into an "analysis" of potential rally sited in this tread. That's not possible to do, and even if it were, I, and everyone else on this thread are not the right people to convince. As I've said several times here, if you think these sites are worth consideration then send this information to Ted Moyer, the Executive Director. That will get these sites proper attention. Posting them here is only good for our discussion.

For that above reasons, I'm not going to discuss each of the locations you listed, but I can discuss two of them. I've been to Mariposa and Auburn, and while beautiful sites for a local club rally, they are not nearly large enough for an MOA event. Just looking at indoor vendor space alone, we need between 30,000 to 40,000 square feet as a minimum, and it's highly preferable to have that in one building. Mariposa has a total of 12,305 square feet spread across four budlings, and Auburn has only a bit more at 16,715 square feet across three buildings. Those are just not workable for size or logistics, and that is not accounting for registration, first aid, coffee, outdoor vendors, seminars (six to seven large rooms minimum), closing ceremonies, rider education, and many other needs. The requirements for an MOA rally are far more extensive than it appears until you really go through the process.

Mariposa
Building A – 5,000
Building B – 5,000
Building C – 1153
Building D – 1152
12,305 total

Auburn
Placer Building – 8,937
Sierra Building – 5,000
Tahoe Building – 2,808
16,715 total

If you think the MOA rallies are "too commercial" then perhaps the RA rally, or the local club rallies, are a better fit for you. Not everyone likes big events. Personally, I do like them very much, and - as I said before - I haven't seen them go any more "commercial" over the last 20 years and I've run two of them. But, many like smaller rallies - I get that - I've run or help run the Idaho Stanly Stop rally a number of times and we were limited at the time to 150 riders.

But, do send your list of potential of sites to Ted Moyer (t e d @ b m w m o a . o r g).

 

[collingsbob]

Why isn’t Canada considered as a location for the rally? I seem to remember that my membership dues were accepted..

 

[gregfeeler]

Why isn’t Canada considered as a location for the rally? I seem to remember that my membership dues were accepted..

We did one rally in Canada, at Trenton in 2002, but unfortunately it turned out to be a logistical nightmare. Our vendors had many problems getting their merchandise into and out of Canada, and many didn't attended due to the problems. Our rally give away bike was tangled up in customs for two or three months. I attended that rally, and the site and the people were great, but unfortunately the boarder policies of Canada were very problematic, and now Canada will not allow US Citizens to enter who have a DUI on their driving record, which is another exclusion for many of our members who feel they have paid their debt to society. It's too bad, as there are so many beautiful places in Canada, and the people are friendly and welcoming in my experience.