• Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password.

    If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?

Odyssey battery voltage vs amps causing ABS fault?

J

jconway607

JohnWC
My 96 R1100 has never had a problem with the ABS. The last Odyssey was about 4 years old. I put a new Odyssey PC680 battery in it last fall and I keep it on a trickle charger all the time when not riding. Now every time I start up, the lights are flashing alternately, and stay that way. It also seems to crank slower. If I stop the bike after five minutes of riding, then restart it, everything works perfectly.
The people at Odyssey seem to blame: 1)battery sat on shelf too long, 2) trickle charger doesn't work, 3) bike's charging system not working right, 4) my Fluke meter is inaccurate. Everything but the battery, and all rather a stretch as far as I can tell.
My point is this: The battery reads 13 volts before I go to start it, which according to Odyssey is fully charged. (12.84 volts from them) Now I said to them, " But even a battery that is about shot will read 12 volts. It's the amperage that goes down." They seemed confused by that.
I look to everyone here for expertise. Does the ABS only consider the voltage? In which case I can't see why it's showing a low voltage fault on start up. Or would a battery with proper voltage but low amperage cause the fault? Any other ideas on this situation, or how to fix it? Thanks.
 
The regular PC680 is what's in all my bikes.
I had a similar problem a short time ago with a 1 year old PC680. Normally I am getting 5-7 years life with these.

This came from Bruce R. Essig, ODYSSEY National Program Manager.

"Larry –
In follow up to your telephone inquiry about charging the ODYSSEY PC680, we highly recommend the CTEK MUS 4.3.
Use the snowflake charging setting for ODYSSEY. This charger also works on all other types of batteries, wet, gel, etc.
Make sure you use the snowflake charging setting on ODYSSEY batteries.
Let us know if we can help further.

Bruce R. Essig
ODYSSEY National Program Manager
Office: 660-429-7506
Fax: 660-429-1758
Cell: 816-668-6676
ODYSSEY Batteries are Awesome!


The CTEK charger I got was the CTEK (56-864) MUS 4.3. Best price was on Amazon...
http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-864-A...&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

They have a snowflake mode which is recommended for AGM batteries that maxes out at 15+ volts before it goes into float mode. Different than "bring it back from the dead mode), and recommended by the folks at Odyssey.


Also, even though your battery tender says your battery is topped off, the CTECK does a de-sulfation mode, which really maxes it out. I don't think the Deltran (or most brands) do that, and that's why I switched. There's a big difference between a surface charge and a full charge. It could be that your battery is getting a good surface charge but your trickle charger may not be de-sulfating the plates.

As always...YMMV.
 
"Voltage" depends upon the condition of the source: the battery (and the heavy primary power cables).
"Amperage" - more correctly called "Current" - depends on the load: the starter, the ABS, and the rest of the bike.

With nothing to "pull" current (and a DVM pulls so little that you can call it zero), even a battery that is almost kaput can show 12 volts or more. (And I highly doubt that your Fluke is inaccurate; my understanding is that their internal battery is only necessary to power the display and to be a voltage source when measuring resistance, not voltage or current.)

But once a load is applied to a battery, current flows... A big, fully-charged battery will "Support" more current than a smaller or weaker battery; and a large load (starter, ABS) will "pull" more current than a small load (light bulb, clock, etc.).

Considering the year of your bike, it is entirely possible that the starter is tired (crudded-up bushings, broken-down insulation on the coil windings inside) or even coming apart; it is also possible that the battery is defective. It is possible that your charger is not "compatible" to your battery (Odyssey should be able to tell you exactly what their battery wants to see during a charge); it is also possible that your charger is defective (I've repaired a few and tossed several).

The real test is to take the battery to an automotive parts store and have it "Load-Tested" - they can put it on a machine that will monitor its ability to deliver high current and still supply (support) 12 volts.
Do Not Let Them "Charge It Up A Little" before the test! You want to see the real-world worst case.
If it passes the spec (they should actually have either a book or a computer link that specifies how much current they should be drawing from the battery = how much Load they should put on it for how much time), then you likely have either a weak starter motor or the large power cables (inspect both the positive and negative lines) may be too corroded internally to allow full voltage + current to pass.

To see the bike's charging system, you want several voltage measurements at the battery terminals: key off; key on but engine not started; key on with engine running at idle; key on with engine at 2500 rpm (how old is that alternator belt?). It would also be significant to note whether there is any significant difference between having the battery disconnected and having it hooked up but in the "key off" condition - that may show an unwanted (parasitic) current drain.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the replies. The Odyssey person I spoke with told me absolutely not to use a de-sulfating setting on a charger because the voltage would go too high. She also said that the float charger should be less than 13.5 volts. I spoke with a person at Delran and they said they had heard all of this from Odyssey before. He said the Tender Junior puts out 12.5-14.6 when blinking green, then 13.4-13.6 volts on solid green float mode. Exactly where Odyssey claims it needs to be. I'm not clear what the "snowflake" setting is. The Delran Jr doesn't have any controls, but it worked fine for the other Odyssey. I didn't charge the battery before putting it in the bike. I guess my next step will be to strip off the side panel remove the battery and put it on a regular charger. I won't be surprised if it immediately blinks up to "ful".

Your suggestion, Pauls1150, of taking the battery to an auto parts store for a load test was something I had forgotten, but which I will do, before I try charging it off the bike.
 
The early death of an Odyssey battery was reported on bmwsporttouring.com in October, 2013 by Moshe Levy. After posts for help and some very unpleasant experiences, he shared the results of his trouble shooting and responses from Odyssey. In particular, Odyssey pointed out that many battery tenders are not recommended for their battery as it needs a higher float voltage than other batteries. The thread also provides a procedure which may allow recovery of a discharged Odyssey.

Additional charging details are in the Odyssey Technical Manual, pg16.

If you do not have one of the recommended chargers for winter storage, you will be better off simply disconnecting the battery for winter. One of the strengths of the Odyssey is its ability to maintain a charge for long periods without use.
 
Do a proper load test on the battery as already suggested.

ABS2 systems are very sensitive to voltage dips on startup. The voltage during cranking drops below 10v momentarily and that is enough to cause the fault.
Once the engine is slightly warmed the cranking voltage won't drop as low and that is why you get a normal ABS startup.
Some have gone as far as powering the ABS electronics feed thru a relay contact that closes after the bike starts charging.
See this link:http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/ABS-II_low_voltage_modification/index.shtml

I keep my PC680's in top charged condition but have noticed after 4-5 years ABS startup lo voltage faults happen on a cold engine in the '40s.
I have already done a similar relay mod so my HID headlight won't fire until the alternator starts charging - this was done so the lamp does not strike twice every time the bike is started. (greatly increases the life of the lamp)
I may tie the ABS feed to that circuit as well if I find the time.

Note: Oilheads typically charge at 13.9 - 14.1v. This is too low for AGM batteries (odyssey included) - they need 14.7v to fully charge.
Ideally the regulator should be modified for higher output. I did this mod back in 2008 and it works very well.
There is lots written here about the subject, Roger 04RT started a well documented thread.

Roger - do you have the link?
 
I had the same issue as Roger using a Battery tender. I bought a recommended charger then brought the battery back using the procedure. Now all is fine.
 
The CTEK charger does 14.4/14.7/15.8 V. The high end is just short spurts/cycles to desulfate the plates. The other voltages are the float/maintaining modes. IIRC, it has a 16+v setting for reviving completely dead batteries. I obviously don't use that. The infrequent 15.8v charge can be seen as the last in a series of green lights, and it hardly goes there. Keep in mind, I use this on my '02 R1200C, my '04 R1200C Montauk, and my '09 R1200RT (with its stupid CANBus), and charge the batteries while they're installed in the 3 bikes, and have had zero issues to date. Lots of opinions here, but you can call the guy I spoke to and pick his brain if you want. He was very friendly and very knowledgeable. I thought it was cool that even though he works for Odyssey, he recommended another manufacturer's charger as the best one.
 
The key issue to chase is how low does the voltage drop when the starter is cranking the engine. Somewhere in the 8.x volt range is where the ABS units typically low-voltage fault.

Once you know that the voltage is dropping too far while cranking, you need to split the diagnosis into: is it the battery; the starter; a connection or cable?

In my personal experience it has been the battery a couple of times and the starter (loose magnet) once.
 
rocketmanli said:
If the starter is beginning to fail and putting too much of a draw on the battery, you can get a brand new Valeo OEM one right here for only $ 58.83.
http://www.discountstarterandalternator.com/p-6416-brand-new-starter-for-bmw.aspx
Click to expand...

Are you sure that is a Valeo? It looks like a Chinese copy to me. There is no Valeo label on it.
The option column says "Valeo system" but what does that really mean?
Euromotoelectrics has the Valeo for $189 - too much of a price gap IMO for it being a true Valeo.

Not to say that starter may well do the job, but I'm willing to bet that replacement parts are not available just as Euro's Chinese ones do not have any either.
 
Check the amp draw on the starter

I'm with the others who suggest checking the starter for dragging and causing the low voltage fault. I almost went through the whole " this Oddesy battery is no good" routine a few months back only to find out (through the suggestions on this forum) that my Valeo starter had dropped a magnet. Got a Valeo replacement from the Boneyard and I was back in business. Its a lot of $$$ for the Valeo replacement but it has a better warranty, can be rebuilt and side by side with the original you can see the new one is beefier.
 
jconway607 said:
My 96 R1100 has never had a problem with the ABS. The last Odyssey was about 4 years old. I put a new Odyssey PC680 battery in it last fall and I keep it on a trickle charger all the time when not riding. Now every time I start up, the lights are flashing alternately, and stay that way. It also seems to crank slower. If I stop the bike after five minutes of riding, then restart it, everything works perfectly.
The people at Odyssey seem to blame: 1)battery sat on shelf too long, 2) trickle charger doesn't work, 3) bike's charging system not working right, 4) my Fluke meter is inaccurate. Everything but the battery, and all rather a stretch as far as I can tell.
My point is this: The battery reads 13 volts before I go to start it, which according to Odyssey is fully charged. (12.84 volts from them) Now I said to them, " But even a battery that is about shot will read 12 volts. It's the amperage that goes down." They seemed confused by that.
I look to everyone here for expertise. Does the ABS only consider the voltage? In which case I can't see why it's showing a low voltage fault on start up. Or would a battery with proper voltage but low amperage cause the fault? Any other ideas on this situation, or how to fix it? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Based on "if I stop after 5 minutes of riding" and "13 volts before I go" the starter could reasonably be a culprit, as several others in this thread have suggested.

In my case in the thread "Battery or Starter" posted earlier in this thread it turned out to be Battery AND Starter. Neither was non-functional but each had issues.

Was the 13V measured right after removing the BT Jr.? If so, disconnect it and let the battery sit overnight and then remeasure. Here is oddysey's advice:

Use Figure 2 to determine the SOC of the ODYSSEY battery, as long as the battery has not been charged or discharged for six or more hours. The only tool needed is a good quality digital voltmeter to measure its open circuit voltage (OCV)1. The graph shows that a healthy, fully charged ODYSSEY battery will have an OCV of 12.84V or higher at 77ºF (25ºC).​
 
I took the battery out, and had it load tested at Autozone. They said it was fine. I then put it on a charger and, as I thought, it went right up to "full" within a minute. I am going to try doing what I believe Odyssey said to do: Using jumper cables from the bike to the battery, turn on the headlight and get the battery down to about 10.5-11 volts, then recharge it, and repeat the process. I'm not crazy about letting the bike sit there with the ABS blinking and other lights glowing for I don't know how long, but can't think of another way to drain the battery. Any suggestions?
I gather I will need to remove the starter in order to lock the crank so that I can then remove the HALL sensor for rewiring by GSAddict. I will then have the starter tested to see how it stacks up. Although it spins the motor fine after I have ridden it awhile. I am cranking the bike in cooler weather when the ABS problem occurs. That is probably increasing the draw on the starter motor, which may be part of the problem. As soon as I locate my spare alligator clip wires I plan to try starting the bike with the volt meter attached, as suggested. That will probably be a telling number. Thanks for all the help.
 
My sincerest apologies. I just spoke to them, and they are indeed aftermarket starters, not OEM Valeo. The 2 columns showing "Valeo" and "Valeo System" on their website refer to options the bike came with, not options for purchasing a new starter. Sorry for the misinformation.
 
rocketmanli said:
My sincerest apologies. I just spoke to them, and they are indeed aftermarket starters, not OEM Valeo. The 2 columns showing "Valeo" and "Valeo System" on their website refer to options the bike came with, not options for purchasing a new starter. Sorry for the misinformation.
Click to expand...

No apology necessary, just thought that price was way to low for a European manufactured part.
Thanks for confirming.
 
jconway607 said:
I gather I will need to remove the starter in order to lock the crank so that I can then remove the HALL sensor for rewiring by GSAddict.
Click to expand...

Not necessary. The factory tool (or a 6mm allen long arm allen wrench) can be inserted to lock the flywheel with the starter still in place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Voltage Issues - 2014 R1200GSA
Replies
15
Views
417
mtodriscoll
M
Moto316
2007 R1200GS battery draining
Replies
4
Views
963
gsaddict
gsaddict
globalrider
Original YUASA YTZ14S - Finally Quit
Replies
16
Views
2K
oldcamper
O
S
r1250r starting problem
Replies
15
Views
1K
stevenpchristensen
S
S
1989 R100RT Charging Voltage and AC Ripple
Replies
3
Views
534
Scarletswirl
S
Back
Top