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Lane Sharing/ Splitting car door opens in my path:

PGlaves said:
Aw, how in the world would Kieth Code know anything about the safe operation of a motorcycle? Our very own MOA keyboard riders must know a lot more than he does. :)
Click to expand...

He's probably forgotten more than most of us know about motorcycling. :)
 
As the OP said, he wasnt breaking any laws. Some posters have said they will some times split lanes even though they are in an area where it isn't legal. A poster from CA said that even though it's legal they aren't comfortable doing it. At least where its legal its available as an option without breaking any laws.
 
Pauls1150 said:
The driver and the passenger are both guilty - the driver is responsible for the illegal actions of any passenger.
The passenger's actions were clearly intentional.

BTW, in California (at least), the only thing it's "legal" to dump out of a vehicle is water... and feathers!

And people wonder why I wish I could have a rocket launcher or a pair of 50mm cannons mounted up front...
Click to expand...

Where to start? The driver is guilty because his back seat passenger on the right side opened his door? (Possible scenario: driver is the "designated driver" from a party; back seat guy opens the door to vomit.) The driver is responsible for his passenger un-hooking his seat belt and opening the door - for whatever reason? How do you see in the video that "the passenger's actions were clearly intentional?"

I know a lot of US residents go around armed. Glad we don't in Canada. A calmer attitude, and acceptance that you too will make some errors on the road, I believe trumps fire power, in avoiding crashes on your bike.

I believe the OP comes down to "**** Happens." I hope he gets the damages to his bike compensated by the guilty party. Very glad he was not hurt. California riders seem to concur that "lain splitting" is both safe and legal when done in a safe way in their state. Yes, that is common practice in Europe. Maybe it should be common practice and legal around other big US cities - but it isn't at present.

If you tour, very important to know and adapt to what is locally acceptable.
 
ric.escalante said:
I think there are a lot of factors involved in that question. What caused the driver to deviate from his path? Was his attention elsewhere other than the road? Texting, phone call, distracted by one of his passengers and then he hit any vehicle, then it would be his fault. If he moved over to avoid debris in the road, then, that would be tough to tell. Generally a motorcycles intent when lane splitting/ sharing is not to ride parallel with the car. The objective is to pass the vehicle at a safe speed and when legal to do so. I wouldn't be lane sharing if the speed was of traffic was at 50. And I wouldn't also be riding in the driver's blind spot. I have had cars purposely shift their car as I approach to try to cut me off. I'd say maybe about 1:1000 cars will do that.

So to give a firm answer on your question, I think it would all depend on the circumstance but in more cases than not, they would fault the motorcycle. In my circumstance, they would have faulted me if I didn't have the camera. He could have easily said I was speeding my and side swiped him.

To the question that someone asked about driving on the double yellow, that's illegal for the car to drive on or cross and same thing for a motorcycle to drive on or cross. From what the CHP explained is that you have to see the lines as concrete barriers. You cannot drive on the lane whether is solid, double yellow, or broken. You can only change lanes on a broken white lane when legal and safe.

And for the person who said, this post is my "baby", I'm not trying to brag about what happened. Mentally, it ****ed me up and I didn't walk away unharmed. To see a door just open in front of you...... I can't even explain the feeling I felt. If I didn't have a video to show people, and just told the story, everyone's opinions would be worse than what's going on now. We've all had our close calls. People on their cell phones, people changing lanes without signaling, people tailgating. But now people are asking me, " what if's." What if he did this, what if he did that, what if a piano fell from the sky..." what would you do! Who's fault?"

Then there's the " well, you shouldn't have been lane splitting in the first place."

Why?? It's LEGAL IN CALIFORNIA! Plain and simple. I don't need to justify WHY I do it no more than you should have to justify if you get rear ended by the person texting behind you. Yeah, I know, If was wasn't late splitting, this wouldn't have happened. I get it!!! But again, it's LEGAL and I was at LEGAL SPEEDS! So whether you against it or not, it really doesn't matter to me because it's LEGAL. The "what if's" don't really come into play. My circumstance is all I was showing.

And here's a what if...if I was going 90 MPH and someone opened the door, who's fault would it be? At that point, we'd both be doing something illegal. But at 90mph and that happened, I don't think I'd be here typing here today.

Then you got the non motorcycle drivers. "Well, that's just the risk you take because you drive a motorcycle"

So now, from every direction, I'm getting criticism. From those who ride bikes that oppose to lane splitting and those who don't ride bikes that just hate bikers in general.

So, to be clear. What I was doing was legal. Opening a door on the freeway whether there was intent to hurt another person, is illegal. No more more than if someone was on their cell phone and just slammed into you.

I haven't been on my bike since, aside from that this incident took out my front left blink, it scared the hell out of me. Many things are going through my mind. What if I didn't have the camera on? What if I had a passenger? What if the door opened up more? ( There are rhetorical and I'm not asking for answers. ) I know the best thing to do when falling down is to get right back up and ride again. And I will. But it's not an easy thing to brush off.
Click to expand...

Ric - Let me try to put this 'topic' into perspective, if I may. First of all, I don't think you're getting criticized from every direction.

What your post did was 'light up the Forum switchboard' with a lot of members weighing in on the controversy of lane-splitting, but I don't think (with perhaps a few exceptions) there was an effort to shift blame to you for what happened. You vented to like-minded persons (fellow riders) about a scary incident you survived, and shared a video of it as well. Nothing wrong with that, and again - so glad you came out of it walking and talking. The bike can be repaired - not always so for our bodies and minds.

You and I do not share complete common ground on this issue (no matter how often you type LEGAL in full-caps or quote the omnipotent CHP), but I recognize the popularity of lane splitting in your state, and like everything from that to riding at night to operating in heavy traffic areas, these are choices that each motorcyclist must make for himself and not all of us would ride down the same path.

It's a choice you made and you narrowly avoided disaster. A credit to your riding skills, with a little bit of luck tossed in.

I would not be anxious to lane split, nor want to ride where you almost always need to have a Go-Pro in operation to prove your innocence. Nor do I need to be breathing California air in order to have an informed opinion on the matter, any more than you need to live in Wisconsin to have an intelligent opinion on how or why we endure our winters.

Just not the kind of riding I seek out, despite the fact I tour an average of 14,000+ miles every season, including thru some major metropolitan areas (Milwaukee, Chicago, Indianapolis, D.C., etc.). That being said, you made the choice and with that choice comes greater risk (yeah, yeah - I've read the studies. I've read lots of studies that cross my desk or are faxed to me - few I'd hang my hat on).

I have no dog in your fight, and your state legislature is currently trying to legalize lane splitting. We all need to just let that hand be played out and see what happens.

Don't beat yourself up for some of the responses - breathe a sigh of relief you're OK (physically - also, as a former LEO who has been in more than one critical incident, I understand the need for time to heal the emotional damage), and gently get back in the saddle when you're ready.

Enjoy the pleasure of two wheels, and let us all know how the liability end of this incident unfolds.

Thanks for posting. :wave
 
Last edited:
BCKRider said:
Where to start? The driver is guilty because his back seat passenger on the right side opened his door? (Possible scenario: driver is the "designated driver" from a party; back seat guy opens the door to vomit.) The driver is responsible for his passenger un-hooking his seat belt and opening the door - for whatever reason? How do you see in the video that "the passenger's actions were clearly intentional?"

I know a lot of US residents go around armed. Glad we don't in Canada. A calmer attitude, and acceptance that you too will make some errors on the road, I believe trumps fire power, in avoiding crashes on your bike.

I believe the OP comes down to "**** Happens." I hope he gets the damages to his bike compensated by the guilty party. Very glad he was not hurt. California riders seem to concur that "lain splitting" is both safe and legal when done in a safe way in their state. Yes, that is common practice in Europe. Maybe it should be common practice and legal around other big US cities - but it isn't at present.

If you tour, very important to know and adapt to what is locally acceptable.
Click to expand...

What does being armed have to do with lane splitting? Nothing.
 
Doug - refer to post 38, the slow-motion view. The passenger's timing is just too perfect. For a while I thought he even glanced back and smiled (or sneered), but I can't really say... Maybe Ric got a better view: if you did, could you enlighten us?
And yes I do believe that drivers are responsible for the actions of their passengers - it's commonly called "accessory to the act". CA vehicle code, division 11, chapter 12, article 1, section 23112.
(Slightly off-topic but just as another example: If you are wearing a helmet but your passenger is not, you will both get tickets because you permitted it. Ditto with seat belts.)
 
ponch1 said:
What does being armed have to do with lane splitting? Nothing.
Click to expand...

I think he was referring to this. And I also mentioned that I wear a sidearm when I ride in an earlier post on this thread.

paul1150 said:
And people wonder why I wish I could have a rocket launcher or a pair of 50mm cannons mounted up front....
Click to expand...
 
The issue of intent is always a key element in determining whether or not a crime was committed and the possible severity of the crime. The determination of intent, or lack there of, could mean the person is charged with a minor infraction or a major felony. For someone to say they can determine intent by what is seen in the video alone is hubris. There have been multiple plausible alternative reasons offered for the knucklehead to have opened that door and each of those reasons offers a route to refuting intent. Much will depend on the investigation of the people in the car, what they may say to the police or what others may say the occupants said after the fact. Good police or other investigative work very often depends on the stupidity of the offenders and their inability to keep their mouths shut. I think this is the kind of incident that the police will have little ability to persue after their initial investigation. Their case loads, the fact that there was no serious injury, and the difficulty in trying to prove intent will mean they will have to move on to more current and serious crimes. More than once I have seen a victim of a crime receive a letter from a prosecuting attorney's office alerting them that no charges would be filed because "persuing the case would be inconsistent with the judicious allocation of the prosecutor's office limited resources".... in other words we are too busy. This may end up in a crimminal court for a jury to decide, it more likely will end up in a civil proceeding and there is a very good chance that it is handled between lawyers and insurance companies. We can just be very happy that Ric did not require the services of a trauma surgeon or medical examiner.
 
Simply put. If you split, you take your chances. Some drivers move away from the center line when they see you, but most do not. For that matter, I don't think most drivers even look in their side mirrors, and especially when in crawl mode.

Years ago while working on Vandenburg AFB west of Santa Maria, Ca., the hillside supporting the main road to the base washed out. Repairs were estimated to take 18 months with only two alternate routes to the base available. The solution to moving 14,000 vehicles per day was to convert one of the two roads to "one way" during both rush periods. CalTrans and CHP monitored the situation closed and lane splitting was allowed (not to mention an increase in both motorcycles and bicycles).

But even with that expedient, what also increased was the extent of "road rage" by cagers. On more than one occasion I had an automobile passenger open their door to prevent me from passing between vehicles. Had CHP seen any of these events citations would have been issued.

Just as in a "rear-ender", if you were to hit the car door, YOU would be at fault. The overtaking vehicle always is, regardless of lane.

BTW, in CA it is legal to pass using any lane designated for vehicle use (either shoulder is NOT a designated lane). Put another way, it is legal to pass on the right of another vehicle. But it's surprising how many folks do not know this, as witnessed by them honking their horns, fist waving, etc.
 
akbeemer said:
The issue of intent is always a key element in determining whether or not a crime was committed and the possible severity of the crime. The determination of intent, or lack there of, could mean the person is charged with a minor infraction or a major felony. For someone to say they can determine intent by what is seen in the video alone is hubris. There have been multiple plausible alternative reasons offered for the knucklehead to have opened that door and each of those reasons offers a route to refuting intent. Much will depend on the investigation of the people in the car, what they may say to the police or what others may say the occupants said after the fact. Good police or other investigative work very often depends on the stupidity of the offenders and their inability to keep their mouths shut. I think this is the kind of incident that the police will have little ability to persue after their initial investigation. Their case loads, the fact that there was no serious injury, and the difficulty in trying to prove intent will mean they will have to move on to more current and serious crimes. More than once I have seen a victim of a crime receive a letter from a prosecuting attorney's office alerting them that no charges would be filed because "persuing the case would be inconsistent with the judicious allocation of the prosecutor's office limited resources".... in other words we are too busy. This may end up in a crimminal court for a jury to decide, it more likely will end up in a civil proceeding and there is a very good chance that it is handled between lawyers and insurance companies. We can just be very happy that Ric did not require the services of a trauma surgeon or medical examiner.
Click to expand...

Sadly, that is a well-thought and concise summary of how 'the system' works in large, metropolitan areas with finite resources/funding.
 
lmo1131 said:
Just as in a "rear-ender", if you were to hit the car door, YOU would be at fault. The overtaking vehicle always is, regardless of lane.
Click to expand...

Actually, no. There is a statute in this state that says that you cannot open your door into traffic. And if you violate a statute, which causes an accident, you are presumed to be at fault.
dc
 
Calif Vehicle Code 22517

No person shall open the door of a vehicle on the side available to moving traffic unless it is reasonably safe to do so and can be done without interfering with the movement of such traffic, nor shall any person leave a door open on the side of a vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than necessary to load or unload passengers.
 
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