Intermittent reduced torque on R1250RT

[michigander]

Does anyone out there know of an issue like this? I'm going to see if I can capture data with my GS-911.

The bike:
2019 R1250RT with 13,000 miles.

The symptoms:
Intermittent reduced torque. This happened 3 times in the last 500 miles or so. Did not occur during the previous 3,500 (since I bought the bike).

Rolling on the throttle results in no (or at least significantly reduced) response from the engine. I downshifted and rolled throttle, still no response or at least not normal. This only lasts 5-10 seconds. Then disappears and the bike is completely fine afterwards. It's hard to say if there's no response or reduced response because it comes and goes so quickly.

No DTCs in any modules.

I can't reproduce it, but it has happened 3 times now.

Today it happened during a 30 mile ride. Two days ago I rode 300 miles with no issue.

My present theory:

Something is making the throttle not respond to the torque command from the throttle grip sensor (tcs /dtc or some Intermittent fault).

Potential causes that I've ruled out (for now):

> Shift cam not shifting. I originally thought this could be it, but I am now reasonably sure that there was no discernable change in engine tone while rolling the throttle grip all the way. If the cams were stuck or not commanded, there would still be a sound change.

> It's not a TCS event, at least not a real one. It lasts too long and the most recent event occurred while rolling on the throttle in top gear at 60 mph on dry pavement (in Dynamic Mode). I suppose it "could" be the wheely prevention errantly kicking in, but I don't really know if that would make sense.

> It's not something mechanical with the engine because it's otherwise fine.

For now, I am going to experiment with the data logger with the GS-911.

 

[52184]

When is the last time the bike was connected to dealer computer for firmware updates?

Best,
DeVern

 

[tsconver]

If it was the traction control trying to prevent a wheelie there should be a flashing traction control light on when it is doing it.

 

[motodan]

Simple step first…have you checked connection at right switch assembly? It could be that the connector is not fully connected. You would need to remove assembly cover to determine if loose.

 

[michigander]

When is the last time the bike was connected to dealer computer for firmware updates?

Best,
DeVern

Firmware was updated in February 2022.

 

[michigander]

If it was the traction control trying to prevent a wheelie there should be a flashing traction control light on when it is doing it.

Good to know. I am near certain that there were no lights on during the events, but I will verify if it happens again.

Thanks.

 

[michigander]

Simple step first…have you checked connection at right switch assembly? It could be that the connector is not fully connected. You would need to remove assembly cover to determine if loose.

Which switch assy are you talking about? On the right hand grip?

Thanks

 

[motodan]

Which switch assy are you talking about? On the right hand grip?

Thanks

Sent you a PM. Original post = Simple step first…have you checked connection at right switch assembly? It could be that the connector is not fully connected. You would need to remove assembly cover to determine if loose.

 

[michigander]

Sent you a PM. Original post = Simple step first…have you checked connection at right switch assembly? It could be that the connector is not fully connected. You would need to remove assembly cover to determine if loose.

Thanks for the PM and pictures. I'll take a look.

 

[brorke]

Does anyone out there know of an issue like this? I'm going to see if I can capture data with my GS-911.

The bike:
2019 R1250RT with 13,000 miles.

The symptoms:
Intermittent reduced torque. This happened 3 times in the last 500 miles or so. Did not occur during the previous 3,500 (since I bought the bike).

Rolling on the throttle results in no (or at least significantly reduced) response from the engine. I downshifted and rolled throttle, still no response or at least not normal. This only lasts 5-10 seconds. Then disappears and the bike is completely fine afterwards. It's hard to say if there's no response or reduced response because it comes and goes so quickly.

No DTCs in any modules.

I can't reproduce it, but it has happened 3 times now.

Today it happened during a 30 mile ride. Two days ago I rode 300 miles with no issue.

My present theory:

Something is making the throttle not respond to the torque command from the throttle grip sensor (tcs /dtc or some Intermittent fault).

Potential causes that I've ruled out (for now):

> Shift cam not shifting. I originally thought this could be it, but I am now reasonably sure that there was no discernable change in engine tone while rolling the throttle grip all the way. If the cams were stuck or not commanded, there would still be a sound change.

> It's not a TCS event, at least not a real one. It lasts too long and the most recent event occurred while rolling on the throttle in top gear at 60 mph on dry pavement (in Dynamic Mode). I suppose it "could" be the wheely prevention errantly kicking in, but I don't really know if that would make sense.

> It's not something mechanical with the engine because it's otherwise fine.

For now, I am going to experiment with the data logger with the GS-911.

My 2019 RT had the same issue a while back. Most of the time I would notice a very brief flash of the DTC light on dash. Rolling on out of corners harder, cornering uphill (especially when 2-up). I took it to the dealer and as Im talking to one writer, another one is looking out at my bike. The other guy asks if Im running Conti Road Attacks, which I was (surprised he recognized the tread pattern at a distance). He said that the Contis are a lighter tire. Certain brands/models of tire will occasionally throw off the ASC/DTC system.

Sounded a little strange.....But shortly after I went to Michelin PR5 GT (and now Road 6 GT) and never had the issue again. Not sure what tires you run or if this will cure your issue. Besides what was already mentioned also try cleaning the wheel speed sensors.

Good luck!

 

[michigander]

My 2019 RT had the same issue a while back. Most of the time I would notice a very brief flash of the DTC light on dash. Rolling on out of corners harder, cornering uphill (especially when 2-up). I took it to the dealer and as Im talking to one writer, another one is looking out at my bike. The other guy asks if Im running Conti Road Attacks, which I was (surprised he recognized the tread pattern at a distance). He said that the Contis are a lighter tire. Certain brands/models of tire will occasionally throw off the ASC/DTC system.

Sounded a little strange.....But shortly after I went to Michelin PR5 GT (and now Road 6 GT) and never had the issue again. Not sure what tires you run or if this will cure your issue. Besides what was already mentioned also try cleaning the wheel speed sensors.

Good luck!

Thanks for the response. I bought the bike used (had 8300 miles or so). It had a newish set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV. I'm not sure if they're "approved" for the bike, but it seems there are others out there using them on the RT.

I'll look into cleaning the wheel speed sensors.

I've played around with taking data with the GS-911 and got it working. So I am trying to remember to always start taking data each time I ride in hopes that I can capture the next time it happens.

The data set doesn't have a lot to offer, but it shows throttle twist grip and both throttles as well as wheel speeds.

 

[brorke]

Thanks for the response. I bought the bike used (had 8300 miles or so). It had a newish set of Dunlop Roadsmart IV. I'm not sure if they're "approved" for the bike, but it seems there are others out there using them on the RT.

I'll look into cleaning the wheel speed sensors.

I've played around with taking data with the GS-911 and got it working. So I am trying to remember to always start taking data each time I ride in hopes that I can capture the next time it happens.

The data set doesn't have a lot to offer, but it shows throttle twist grip and both throttles as well as wheel speeds.

The issue also could be resolved with the current firmware. I thought the light tire theory was crazy, but at the time it resolved the issue for me.


I've had 2 updates since and going for another this Saturday to resolve a "Incorrect mileage detected" error Im getting on my GS911.

 

[michigander]

The issue also could be resolved with the current firmware. I thought the light tire theory was crazy, but at the time it resolved the issue for me.


I've had 2 updates since and going for another this Saturday to resolve a "Incorrect mileage detected" error Im getting on my GS911.

I'm getting that same DTC (incorrect mileage).

Unfortunately I bought the bike used at a dealer in Pennsylvania. So to get the firmware updated I'll have to develop a relationship with the local dealer and see how helpful they're feeling.

 

[michigander]

Just a follow up post.

I'm now wondering if this issue was related to my issue that I just discovered. See this thread

https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?104687-2019-R1250RT-with-DTC-P2614-(3A1B62)-Solved

The reduced torque was very similar to the feeling of riding in the torque limiting mode when this DTC was present.

However, the MIL never lit, and there were no DTCs present after experiencing this problem. So, it's still a mystery to me.

The original intermittent reduced torque issue had disappeared prior to my cam maintenance (which caused the DTC and limited torque I describedin the other thread) so I can't say that my issue is gone now.