I'm gonna beat a dead horse here, but...........

[globalrider]

Oh yeah...well my battery lasted 10 years. I was just kidding with the 8 years.

I wasn't. When the battery finally fails on that Tercel, I'll complaint to Toyota Canada. Hey, they might give me a new one for getting 20 years out of a battery.

When you've done as much acid as I have, you know something about batteries. Just kidding about the acid though.

 

[CustomSarge]

What's worked for me...

Glass mat construction: maintanence free design, better starting amperage than gel, much lower sulfation & self-discharge curves than standard liquid cell.

Built my own "tender" : regulated to 13.5V, limited to <50mA. Has lines to support up to 8 batteries. Been keeping an Odyssey (original Gates glass mat design for ultralight aircraft) in good stead since 6/2000. I've built several for friends (fewer lines), Easy to make. Haven't had to remove a battery for winter since '00.

Got an Interstate AGM in the HR; now @ end of 2nd season, all ok. REAL happy not to have to pull That one for winter. soap box open... <<<)))

 

[cjack]

Glass mat construction: maintanence free design, better starting amperage than gel, much lower sulfation & self-discharge curves than standard liquid cell.

Built my own "tender" : regulated to 13.5V, limited to <50mA. Has lines to support up to 8 batteries. Been keeping an Odyssey (original Gates glass mat design for ultralight aircraft) in good stead since 6/2000. I've built several for friends (fewer lines), Easy to make. Haven't had to remove a battery for winter since '00.

Got an Interstate AGM in the HR; now @ end of 2nd season, all ok. REAL happy not to have to pull That one for winter. soap box open... <<<)))

Interesting about the 13.5 volts. Deltran says they put the soak cycle (at 14.4V) in the BT Plus to get the last 10% of charge into the battery. Something about not getting fully charged otherwise. That is why, I think, BMWNA said it is ok to use the BT Jr on their Gels because at least it'll go right to float and not into the several hour soak cycle that the Plus has.

Chances are great that the manufacturing quality control variations and individual use experience and events are going to have a lot more to do with the lifetime of any battery, wet, GEL or AGM. So we are probably picking a nit with this 0.2 Volt thing. But what else can you advise someone. The chemistry, although theoretical, is there and if you are asked one can only report what you have learned, report on the validity of the sources, and your personal experiences.

The other thing that came up in this thread is the profit motive. The thing is that most any solution, whether the requirement is perceived or real, requires some kind of equipment or action and that often costs money. Naturally those who know how to build or supply this are quick to offer their product or service. That does not mean that they are giving false or leading information just to sell a product. It is rather the natural course of events. What would you say or do otherwise..."I think there is a better way to do this according to our engineers and chemists, but that would require me to sell you a device that I would make money on and make a profit. So no."

Also, by the way, BMW has for sale another NEW battery charger that has a switch to go from an AGM or wet battery or to a GEL battery. I think I mentioned this in a previous post or thread. This tends to support their contention that the two battery types require different care. At least theoretically. YMMV. And as I said, I got 8 years from two wet 25 amp BMW Mareg batteries and only 3 years from their replacements in the very same bikes and under the very same conditions. I think the variations in manufacturing are the greater factor.

 

[CustomSarge]

Chemistry vs construction

I seem to 'mem that the lead acid voltage is real close to 2V. I picked 13.5 as that is what most car alternators use as cutoff.

I found this: http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htm as a good site for the basics. I especially liked the sulfation removal ideas; gotta try those.

I agree that individual habits are probably a lot more important than absolute parameters. :.) <<)))

 

[GeneT]

Gel Batteries

Gentlemen, about 10 years ago I purchased my first gel battery for my Chev. Suburban, it was previously reported that these would not work with conventional alternators, which turned out to be BS.

Since then I have also installed gel batteries on my home emergency diesel genertator, these are maintained with a conventinal floater which was originally in a motorhome, when the battery is fully charged output voltage is reduced to 4.0 volts. I guess this is where the term "float" comes from.

Recently I have had a gel battery installed in my R1200C, by the local BMW dealer, no one said there were any charging restrictions as they also installed the BMW 12 volt accessory socket so I could connect my charger.

However experience in fast charging the gel battery taught me that a time limit of 20 minutes is maximum on this type of battery, over charging will cause extream heat and the smell of rotten eggs is produced and then the battery turns to instant jumk.

 

[bmwmick]

I'd like to hear from some riders about battery life. How long are AGM, lead acid, sealed or not lasting. Is anybody getting multiple years ,like 3, from proper maintanence and normal use?
18 months ago I had to buy 3 batteries for 3 bikes I am riding that all died in spring time . One BMW (expensive) one cheapest (Grueber) and One Ducati sealed. They are all still working fine and get periodic charges at 2 amps with a controlled and deduced slow charge as it builds.

Mac,
I use a Panasonic AGM LC-X1220P ($44.68 from digikey.com) battery in my '96 R1100RT. I use the LC-X1228P in my K1100LT and my R100RS. I replace them about every 4 years just because I'd rather do the replacing in my garage and not on the road. Roughly $10 per year with no messy acid drips is worth it for me. (Send a check with your order and they ship them free too)
I keep them all on Battery Tender +'s when not being ridden/driven.

I've only had ONE of these AGM batteries fail since about 1996 and it failed to hold a charge after just over 2 years. Even with judicious maintenance, I've NEVER had a BMW Mareg wet-cell last more than 2 years. My wife's car had 2 BMW Mareg batteries fail in less than 3 years. The BMW dealer paid me to put an equivlent Interstate battery in it. It lasted almost 5 years.

My truck takes 2 batteries and I have a pair of Optima AGM's in it too. I don't believe they ever made a large enough GEL cell, as someone else reported, for 1050 CCA........but I may be wrong.

 

[cjack]

I seem to 'mem that the lead acid voltage is real close to 2V. I picked 13.5 as that is what most car alternators use as cutoff.

I found this: http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq.htm as a good site for the basics. I especially liked the sulfation removal ideas; gotta try those.

I agree that individual habits are probably a lot more important than absolute parameters. :.) <<)))

The German BMW chargers (not the one made for them by Deltran) do the desulfating cycle. They limit the pulse height to a safe 15.5 V or so.

 

[R11S]

Cabela's ProMariner Gel Battery Charger

I bought a ProMariner 1.5 Amp Gel Type Battery Charger P/N 10116 (http://www.pmariner.com) for $29.99 from Cabela's (http://www.cabelas.com). I got it 15FEB2005 and have used it on my R11S Gel Battery numerous times this year...works great!

When I used my old Sears 1.5 Amp Trickle Charger the measured battery voltage would climb over 15 VDC. NOT RECOMMENDED!

Charging with the ProMriner doesn't quickly ramp up to high voltages like the Sears Trickle Charger. Instead, Battery Voltage measurements taken during charging show a steady ~13.15??0.05 VDC.

 

[BUBBAZANETTI]

Man, i was so jazzed up about this topic after seeing various pamphlets on the subject at the BMW dealer that i think i'm gonna start a website:

"www.batterytenderjrworksongelbatteriessothere"

thats easy to remember right???


anyone want to make a grant to the "prove derek right commission" it'll be our (my) job to purchase various batteries and tenders and determine their effectiveness................

 

[robdogg]

first post; new bike (2004 1150 GSA) and I am following the thread with interest. If I use my BT jr, where might I be able to purchase an adapter cable to plug in to the accessory slot for it?

 

[cjack]

first post; new bike (2004 1150 GSA) and I am following the thread with interest. If I use my BT jr, where might I be able to purchase an adapter cable to plug in to the accessory slot for it?

BMW sells the adapter part # 72 60 1 470 290. It plugs into the 2 pin sae connector and then into the bike. About $12.
You could also buy the plug only at BMW or elsewhere (John Deere, Powerlet, etc.) and make your own jumper. The plug costs about $10.

 

[globalrider]

first post; new bike (2004 1150 GSA) and I am following the thread with interest. If I use my BT jr, where might I be able to purchase an adapter cable to plug in to the accessory slot for it?

I take it the BT Jr. has an SAE plug at the end?

Why not install a YUASA Battery Analyzer for $10 (from Aerostich)? It terminates in an SAE connector that you can plug your BT Jr. into. At the push of a membrane button, it tells you if your battery is above (green LED) or below (red LED) 12.5V and it can be used as a power outlet for a heated vest heat controller.

 

[BUBBAZANETTI]

first post; new bike (2004 1150 GSA) and I am following the thread with interest. If I use my BT jr, where might I be able to purchase an adapter cable to plug in to the accessory slot for it?

why not try using the plug that came with the tender, it puts less wear and tear on your accessory socket and you can hide it wherever you'd like............

 

[robdogg]

thanks for the replies all. The reason I want to use the factory socket is because it's already there. It's a clean process; I've used the BT pigtails on many other bikes and it's just not as clean having the end of a cable sticking out from under your seat. Lastly, I am hooking up several other electronic devices to the battery already so don't really want to add another one down there.