06motorradman
New member
Does anyone know if the cracking flange on the fuel pump for the threaded quick-connect fitting is also an issue on 08 R1200R bikes? What about on R1150R bikes?
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How NOT to Design A Fuel Pump Connection ALL R12s
- Thread starter racer7
- Start date
deilenberger
A bozo on the bus
True - but again - on a very active R1200R forum (bikes from '07 to current, mine is one of the oldest) - there have been no reported flange/fitting failures.
Immune?
Dunno - but the R12R seems to not suffer from a lot of the problems that other R12 series have. Just a note on the design - the R1200R tank fits the fuel pump in one of the lobes of the tank - in the upside down U shaped recess under the tank that clears the ABS and control units.. the hose from the pump comes out and goes to an external fuel filter that is strapped to the top of the U. There may be less flexing due to that design and less side load on the flange.
Has anyone here with an R1200R suffered a failure? (I bought the ring but haven't gotten around to installing it.. inertia of the butt..)
fuel pump controller
I checked my controller well about two years ago, and it seemed ok. When I re-installed the controller, I sealed the seams using a black silicone grease. Though I don't ride much in rain, the bike gets washed about twice per month. Haven't experienced any problems, and I try not drown that area during the wash.
fyi
I checked my controller well about two years ago, and it seemed ok. When I re-installed the controller, I sealed the seams using a black silicone grease. Though I don't ride much in rain, the bike gets washed about twice per month. Haven't experienced any problems, and I try not drown that area during the wash.
fyi
mpmarty
New member
I pulled the fpc and wiring and packed all with dielectric grease. No evidence of any water having been in the well. I don't wash the bike, ever. If it gets too grungy I remove the panels and wash and wax them before re-installing them. I use a water less car wash system from Griotes garage on the swingarm and wheels and other non removable stuff.
I just had all side and top panels off of my bike. I cleaned a lot of stuff that was very dusty (by dusting - not washing) and then sprayed nearly everything with Honda (yes, I know but it's really good stuff) spray cleaner. I've heard some people use WD40 for the same purpose but I trust the Honda stuff more because it says it's safe for plastic, paint, rubber, etc.
And for the pump connections you speak of I used dielectric grease. Not really packed but enough grease to coat everything in the connector. It can only help protect the connections from moisture.
tsp
Blog: www.swriding.blogspot.com
And for the pump connections you speak of I used dielectric grease. Not really packed but enough grease to coat everything in the connector. It can only help protect the connections from moisture.
tsp
Blog: www.swriding.blogspot.com
failure in traffic- a life changing/threatening experience
In addition to my recently well documented electrical problems with the ABS system on my 07 R1200GS, I had the engine shut down on the Freeway 2 weeks ago, just after I had passed an 18 wheeler..........
The panic while I got off the freeway weaving between cars and trucks with a dead engine, with a freaking great Kenworth up my arse really stretched my ownership loyalty to the limit. My 1969 Yamaha XS1 is looking pretty fault free at this time.....
And the fault, after very little searching was dirty green slime in the cavity under the power cord/plug in the fuel pump, as identified by the original poster.
At some time the bike has had the pump out and when the O ring was placed in its groove as the cap was secured, the O ring was pinched leaving it wide open to water penetration. I have no clue how long the water has been in there, but since cleaning it out, sealing it with a high-end black window mastic, the bike runs like new. This leads me to suspect that its been this way for at least 12 months- the timeframe I've owned the bike.
But between the poor quality electrical fittings and the unavailability of even the simplest electrical pins and plugs [but which are available off-the-shelf at the BMW car dealership] I really am p-o'd at BMW Motorcycles at the moment. And this is from a serial bike rider [almost 50 years] and long time BMW fanatic....I even turned my Max Duebel World Championship sidecar model to face the wall a few nights ago.....
Maybe some trouble free riding this [short Northern] summer will get me back in the groove, but I aint feelin' much love at present
The Oz Slider
In addition to my recently well documented electrical problems with the ABS system on my 07 R1200GS, I had the engine shut down on the Freeway 2 weeks ago, just after I had passed an 18 wheeler..........
The panic while I got off the freeway weaving between cars and trucks with a dead engine, with a freaking great Kenworth up my arse really stretched my ownership loyalty to the limit. My 1969 Yamaha XS1 is looking pretty fault free at this time.....
And the fault, after very little searching was dirty green slime in the cavity under the power cord/plug in the fuel pump, as identified by the original poster.
At some time the bike has had the pump out and when the O ring was placed in its groove as the cap was secured, the O ring was pinched leaving it wide open to water penetration. I have no clue how long the water has been in there, but since cleaning it out, sealing it with a high-end black window mastic, the bike runs like new. This leads me to suspect that its been this way for at least 12 months- the timeframe I've owned the bike.
But between the poor quality electrical fittings and the unavailability of even the simplest electrical pins and plugs [but which are available off-the-shelf at the BMW car dealership] I really am p-o'd at BMW Motorcycles at the moment. And this is from a serial bike rider [almost 50 years] and long time BMW fanatic....I even turned my Max Duebel World Championship sidecar model to face the wall a few nights ago.....
Maybe some trouble free riding this [short Northern] summer will get me back in the groove, but I aint feelin' much love at present
The Oz Slider
ken e
Ken
rain coat
After reading about this and seeing how water sit, i added a plastic bag cover fastened with a wire tie.
Checked under controller and the seal was doing its job.
Did find much rust on steel vent tube under hose. Cleaned and greased steel, blew out hose, re-attached, will have to monitor....
After reading about this and seeing how water sit, i added a plastic bag cover fastened with a wire tie.
Checked under controller and the seal was doing its job.
Did find much rust on steel vent tube under hose. Cleaned and greased steel, blew out hose, re-attached, will have to monitor....
Attachments
mneblett
#32806
I recently picked up a 2012 R12RT. Given the controller issues documented here, I took a look at the arrangements to see whether I needed to take pre-emptive action. As it turns out, BMW has re-arranged the components on the fuel pump flange to move the controller out of the bottom of the flange where water pools:
I don't know when the change was made, but at least BMW did something to address the issue. I also noted the reinforcing metal ring on the quick-disconnect fitting flange is there.
I don't know when the change was made, but at least BMW did something to address the issue. I also noted the reinforcing metal ring on the quick-disconnect fitting flange is there.
Interesting pic.
Looks like the pump assemby, fpc and all, is rotated clockwisea pretty fair distance. Also, those ridged covers on top of the electrical connectors (to keep out water?) look new..
If the latter is true they're apparently trying to prevent failures caused by water penetrating the top of the fpc.
The metal reinforcing ring is a good and useful change that will prevent the cracking of that previously all plastic fitting and should prove to be fully adequate - I doubt we'll hear of any failures of a ringed fitting.
So where are we on improvments vs failure modes? Possibly a fair amount of the way there?
If all of the change work as intended the following mqy be the resut
1) New fpc less prone to electronic failure
2) FPC "cover" prevents failures caused by water penetration from top
3) Metal ring prevents cracking of flange fitting
4) Rotation prevents waterseepage into the well and corssion at the fuel pump connector
5) Metal male qucik disconnect eliminate breakageof plastic quick disconnect
6) Ineffective cover that was on early models no longer in use
The above 6 changes are actually a pretty hopeful sign that a large part of the various total failures will be eliminated. And of course when added up are also clear confirmation that the original design was lousy - a good one would not have needed 6 (!!) changes just to prevent various problems. I know I'd sure hate to be the original engineer having to explain to my boss why my design needed a half dozen running changes to models in production just to be properly serviceable- I'd have been unemployed for sure in my former industry..
So what's NOT "fixed" yet?
1) The factory install of the fpc on my 08 RT that failed had no sealant of any kind. Do the latest ones have a sealant or grease on the fpc gasket?
2) The fpc "gasket" is still a poor design- an interference fit with the side wall of the well it sits in rather than a good compression seal. Efficiency of the currrent seal is limited by the precision of the plastic molding and the fact that the two small T-20s holding the fpc go into plastic and don't generate any compression force anyway, even if it were a compression gasket.
3) The larger well is still not self draining and needs to be - but the current design can't be drilled or easily remolded at the periphery.
4) Others??
Perhaps we'll eventually see a clean redesign on new water-cooled models rather than a set of band aids (though it looks like they ought to help a lot)or changes to the remaining items.
Looks like the pump assemby, fpc and all, is rotated clockwisea pretty fair distance. Also, those ridged covers on top of the electrical connectors (to keep out water?) look new..
If the latter is true they're apparently trying to prevent failures caused by water penetrating the top of the fpc.
The metal reinforcing ring is a good and useful change that will prevent the cracking of that previously all plastic fitting and should prove to be fully adequate - I doubt we'll hear of any failures of a ringed fitting.
So where are we on improvments vs failure modes? Possibly a fair amount of the way there?
If all of the change work as intended the following mqy be the resut
1) New fpc less prone to electronic failure
2) FPC "cover" prevents failures caused by water penetration from top
3) Metal ring prevents cracking of flange fitting
4) Rotation prevents waterseepage into the well and corssion at the fuel pump connector
5) Metal male qucik disconnect eliminate breakageof plastic quick disconnect
6) Ineffective cover that was on early models no longer in use
The above 6 changes are actually a pretty hopeful sign that a large part of the various total failures will be eliminated. And of course when added up are also clear confirmation that the original design was lousy - a good one would not have needed 6 (!!) changes just to prevent various problems. I know I'd sure hate to be the original engineer having to explain to my boss why my design needed a half dozen running changes to models in production just to be properly serviceable- I'd have been unemployed for sure in my former industry..
So what's NOT "fixed" yet?
1) The factory install of the fpc on my 08 RT that failed had no sealant of any kind. Do the latest ones have a sealant or grease on the fpc gasket?
2) The fpc "gasket" is still a poor design- an interference fit with the side wall of the well it sits in rather than a good compression seal. Efficiency of the currrent seal is limited by the precision of the plastic molding and the fact that the two small T-20s holding the fpc go into plastic and don't generate any compression force anyway, even if it were a compression gasket.
3) The larger well is still not self draining and needs to be - but the current design can't be drilled or easily remolded at the periphery.
4) Others??
Perhaps we'll eventually see a clean redesign on new water-cooled models rather than a set of band aids (though it looks like they ought to help a lot)or changes to the remaining items.
I agree with your comments except as to #5. To me, the QD still appears to be plastic in Mark's photos. The plastic ones' mechanisms have a metal sliding piece, as shown, but the QD body itself looks like the old penurious black plastic, and not metal.
Soory about the QD error
I guess that's my error? I was referring to the male QD for which there is a metal part in the list IIRC. Guess thaqt's a repair only and not factory build???
Can't say I've had any issues with the male QD on mine but have been told by a couple techs of breakage during service or in use,
That issue ought to still be of concern if not changed. Fuel leaks aren't a good thing and the metal collar change only removes one of the failure points. Guess I'm old fashioned but I really don't like parts quality that would never be acceptable on a well built track car showing up on a motorcycle if better are readily available and affordable. Too much vibration and weather exposure equals too many ways to have problems even though in most cases heat exposure is going to be less.
Re the fuel pump rotation- is the current position indexed and if so, how and where? Remember that you still might need some other changes like protecting hoses/wiring from that metal edge, etc. Need to compare all the minor details to be sure a problem isn't being created by a rotation, if its possible on earlier models.
I guess that's my error? I was referring to the male QD for which there is a metal part in the list IIRC. Guess thaqt's a repair only and not factory build???
Can't say I've had any issues with the male QD on mine but have been told by a couple techs of breakage during service or in use,
That issue ought to still be of concern if not changed. Fuel leaks aren't a good thing and the metal collar change only removes one of the failure points. Guess I'm old fashioned but I really don't like parts quality that would never be acceptable on a well built track car showing up on a motorcycle if better are readily available and affordable. Too much vibration and weather exposure equals too many ways to have problems even though in most cases heat exposure is going to be less.
Re the fuel pump rotation- is the current position indexed and if so, how and where? Remember that you still might need some other changes like protecting hoses/wiring from that metal edge, etc. Need to compare all the minor details to be sure a problem isn't being created by a rotation, if its possible on earlier models.
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My 2007 died for the same reason
Thank you for the info. I was able to fix my bike in a few minutes because of your post. You help many riders with such detailed info. Thank you so much.
Paul
Thank you for the info. I was able to fix my bike in a few minutes because of your post. You help many riders with such detailed info. Thank you so much.
Paul
KenDittrick
Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197
Well yesterday my RT failed in traffic (left hand lane of three lanes) on Alberta's busiest highway while travelling in a solid pack of cagers in front and behind @~125Kph. I had received the Canadian Recall Campaign (No. 13-442 BMW Fuel Pump) but had done nothing with it yet. It was an exciting slow down with cars up my butt till I steered to the left and off the pavement for sure. Anyone who doubts that this is a safety recall I can attest that no one of that road slowed down at all and would call that experience a close call for sure. Traffic volume was extremely high in mid afternoon and caught between NB and SB traffic made earplugs mandatory. Got my GS911 out with my notebook and it indicated a fuel pump issue (I forget the language it said). I felt pretty dumb knowing there is a recall and not acting on it - oh well. The good part is I got on my phone and called the Platinum Cycle Club for assistance and very pleasant person ensured a truck was coming to assist. He arrived within 90 minutes as he was dead heading back to Calgary. It was amazing to me that although this was a very large tow truck with mega flashers on clearly stopped to assist on the road not a single car moved out of the lane or slowed down at all. Anyhow we got the bike up on the deck and cinched nicely down and on the way the the dealership to get the recall done. Got it booked in and home safely feeling happy that I had upgraded to Platinum just this year when I extended my MOA membership for five years.
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