Gas < Are they CRAZY

[mrich12000]

Crude hits $108.75 US

Gas price reg on the 400 hiway 1.20 cn..
what does it cost you part of the world?

Thanks for the typo fix

 

[SNC1923]

We were out for coffee the other night, bemoaning the fact that super unleaded was $3.71/gal. at the Chevron. I thought, "I'm not going to pay that. I'll go to the Chevron by my house."

I rode the bike over there and found super at $3.77/gal. D'oh!

$4.00 here we come. . . .

 

[dancogan]

Saw diesel yesterday at $3.999/gallon. No wonder delivery costs on everything we buy are going up!

 

[john1691]

A friend of mine is putting some home made hydrogen generator on his diesel truck, supposed to increase mileage by 10%. He has some other guys working on how to increase the hydrogen output, based on electrical frequency.........I told him I get his toys if he blows himself up! Anyway, seems we should have come up with this stuff 30 years ago, but there is too much money to be made in oil.

Also saw a report on all the methane at the ocean bottom, from decomposing animal/plant matter. It stays in solution due to the pressure and temp that far down. The report said if we could collect/contain it there would be a 3000 year supply for most of our fuel needs. The problem is it is 25% worse than CO2 for the atmosphere when released.

Until we figure these other things out, we should be drilling more wells in Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico and other places that we already have oil, instead of relying on Argentina and Russia and the Middle East for our energy. With modern technology, it can be done without ruining the enviroment, we just need to do it right. Not to mention building a refinery or two..........

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want to ruin Alaska or anyplace else. I'm not trying to start anything, but I do think we can come up with a way to get at oil in a clean way, and refine it without making a mess of things. I want my kids and future grandkids to have clean air/water/soil too.

 

[jimabmw]

Hopefully this encourage more to trade there cars for motorcycles.

 

[From MARS]

A friend of mine is putting some home made hydrogen generator on his diesel truck, supposed to increase mileage by 10%. He has some other guys working on how to increase the hydrogen output, based on electrical frequency.........I told him I get his toys if he blows himself up! Anyway, seems we should have come up with this stuff 30 years ago, but there is too much money to be made in oil.

Also saw a report on all the methane at the ocean bottom, from decomposing animal/plant matter. It stays in solution due to the pressure and temp that far down. The report said if we could collect/contain it there would be a 3000 year supply for most of our fuel needs. The problem is it is 25% worse than CO2 for the atmosphere when released.

Until we figure these other things out, we should be drilling more wells in Alaska and in the Gulf of Mexico and other places that we already have oil, instead of relying on Argentina and Russia and the Middle East for our energy. With modern technology, it can be done without ruining the enviroment, we just need to do it right. Not to mention building a refinery or two..........

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I want to ruin Alaska or anyplace else. I'm not trying to start anything, but I do think we can come up with a way to get at oil in a clean way, and refine it without making a mess of things. I want my kids and future grandkids to have clean air/water/soil too.

There was a report on PBS the other night that said there is a 14 year HIGH in gasoline reserves! The same report stated that the crude oil reserves are adequate. It isn't a shortage of oil that's the problem. Our currency devaluation is where the problem lies. It is the printing of more currency, the trade deficit, and our "borrower nation" status that is driving oil prices. The guest on the program stated that oil prices have decoupled from the supply/demand equation and are responding to the speculative investment moneys looking for a hedge against inflation. When compared to the value of the dollar as shown by the price of gold, gasoline cost about the same today as it has for years. Gold is approximately three times higher than it was 4 years ago, and so is gasoline.

Tom

 

[kreinke]

GAS hits $108.75 US

Gas price reg on the 400 hiway 1.20 cn..
what does it cost you part of the world?

I just traded one of my jeeps for a more fuel efficient car because I ran the numbers and at 4.00/gallon gas it didn't look good.

The wife easily puts 24000 mile/year on with her job.
Even counting the hit I took on depreciation the gas savings justified the payback.

The good news was that I bought a car made in Oshawa. Wow! For such a big car the Impala we got has great gas mileage (30mpg according to the sticker but the wife averaged 32 on the highway) and it's E85 compatible (we have lots of E85 stations in this part of Wisconsin).

 

[crazydrummerdude]

We were out for coffee the other night, bemoaning the fact that super unleaded was $3.71/gal. at the Chevron. I thought, "I'm not going to pay that. I'll go to the Chevron by my house."

I rode the bike over there and found super at $3.77/gal. D'oh!

$4.00 here we come. . . .

Just imagine how much that coffee costs per gallon, though..

 

[Bud]

Speculation. AKA Greed is driving up the price of crude.

Lack of refinery capability is also help drive up the cost of diesel.

But don't even get me started about the price of gas in my town.

 

[testinglogin]

Speculation. AKA Greed is driving up the price of crude.

Lack of refinery capability is also help drive up the cost of diesel.

But don't even get me started about the price of gas in my town.

Lack of refineries is a BIG issue. Years ago, larger oil companies purchased refineries and then promptly closed them. Real nice. Now they want government help (last I heard, in the form of free land) to build new refineries. It's their own fault for closing them in the first place, although I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing.

As for previous comments about drilling in Alaska and other places, there are issues there, as well. For one, every time they go into a new place they claim "minimal environmental impact" but each time there is a spill, or they find the roads/construction permanently change the landscape, or they negatively impact wildlife in the area. "Zero impact" just doesn't happen. They could do it, but it wouldn't make the drilling profitable.

Second, if they started working on new oil drilling in AK right now, it would be YEARS before any oil was produced... that doesn't fix anything now. In the meantime there ARE places they can try to extract oil that wouldn't be an environmental problem. Look up some info on the "oil sands" in Northern Canada. That looks like an interesting idea, and there is LOTS up there. Current prices now make it a profitable option.

Third, E85 is sadly a joke. It's suddenly becoming too expensive to produce as the price of corn increases, which also leads to more expensive food. You also get worse gas mileage per gallon than standard gas. I don't think E85 is going to stick around, very long. In fact, I think it's in our best interests that it NOT stick around.

Finally, our best bet is probably conservation... which is why I have bikes that get at least 40mpg, and I ride them whenever there isn't ice on the road or I don't have anything to haul.

 

[rocketman]

We were out for coffee the other night, bemoaning the fact that super unleaded was $3.71/gal. at the Chevron. I thought, "I'm not going to pay that. I'll go to the Chevron by my house."

I rode the bike over there and found super at $3.77/gal. D'oh!

$4.00 here we come. . . .

Ha Ha! and I was bitching this AM as I filled up at $3.27! some areas around DC are running at $3.40 + and higher, I just happen to live in a country with the cheepest gas around but it can still run up to a 15 cent differance between stations. I also know of lots of folks, like Jeannes parents that have fuel oil heating and close off all but one room of the house during most of the day due to the rising cost of heating.

I feel for the farmers and transportation companys, turning a profit is getting harder and harder and its driving up the price on everything.

RM

 

[rocketman]

Lack of refineries is a BIG issue. Years ago, larger oil companies purchased refineries and then promptly closed them. Real nice. Now they want government help (last I heard, in the form of free land) to build new refineries. It's their own fault for closing them in the first place, although I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing.

As for previous comments about drilling in Alaska and other places, there are issues there, as well. For one, every time they go into a new place they claim "minimal environmental impact" but each time there is a spill, or they find the roads/construction permanently change the landscape, or they negatively impact wildlife in the area. "Zero impact" just doesn't happen. They could do it, but it wouldn't make the drilling profitable.

Second, if they started working on new oil drilling in AK right now, it would be YEARS before any oil was produced... that doesn't fix anything now. In the meantime there ARE places they can try to extract oil that wouldn't be an environmental problem. Look up some info on the "oil sands" in Northern Canada. That looks like an interesting idea, and there is LOTS up there. Current prices now make it a profitable option.

Third, E85 is sadly a joke. It's suddenly becoming too expensive to produce as the price of corn increases, which also leads to more expensive food. You also get worse gas mileage per gallon than standard gas. I don't think E85 is going to stick around, very long. In fact, I think it's in our best interests that it NOT stick around.

Finally, our best bet is probably conservation... which is why I have bikes that get at least 40mpg, and I ride them whenever there isn't ice on the road or I don't have anything to haul.

And interestingly enough there is a viable solution to using corn, many forms of wild grasses yield a higher return on energy produced, its easy to grow and can yield several crops a year, hell its the same stuff that government regulations require farms and land owners in the prairies to grow on a certain percentage of their land for soil conservation. Unlike ethanol from corn which actually produces less total energy (when you figure in all aspects such as the energy used in the production of fertilizers, running farm equipment operation to harvest and energy used in the refinement process ) than what you get when its burned, ethanol production from grasses yields more total energy than is consumed to produce it, plus it grows wild and the refinement process is simpler!
One of the big problems with that is that growing prairie grass is not subsidized where corn is, so the immediate profit is in corn (for the farmers anyway)!

RM

 

[kbasa]

Talk about bein' over a barrel.

 

[rocketman]

Talk about bein' over a barrel.

Ouch! That hurt!

RM

 

[testinglogin]

And interestingly enough there is a viable solution to using corn, many forms of wild grasses yield a higher return on energy produced, its easy to grow and can yield several crops a year, hell its the same stuff that government regulations require farms and land owners in the prairies to grow on a certain percentage of their land for soil conservation. Unlike ethanol from corn which actually produces less total energy (when you figure in all aspects such as the energy used in the production of fertilizers, running farm equipment operation to harvest and energy used in the refinement process ) than what you get when its burned, ethanol production from grasses yields more total energy than is consumed to produce it, plus it grows wild and the refinement process is simpler!
One of the big problems with that is that growing prairie grass is not subsidized where corn is, so the immediate profit is in corn (for the farmers anyway)!

RM

Eventually the subsidies will have to dry up, and maybe then there will be a switch to something besides corn. Didn't they already prop corn up LOOONG in the past, which is why we use so much corn syrup instead of sugar in our food products?

Aside from grass, I thought I also heard about some type of algae that converts to ethanol nicely. Actually, this is a nice article about algae and biodiesel, as well as using it to clean CO2 emissions from factories. Interesting.

 

[rocketman]

Eventually the subsidies will have to dry up, and maybe then there will be a switch to something besides corn. Didn't they already prop corn up LOOONG in the past, which is why we use so much corn syrup instead of sugar in our food products?

that too is part of the problem the subsidies have been around for so long no one wants to be first to say anything about stopping it or they might lose their constituency..

Aside from grass, I thought I also heard about some type of algae that converts to ethanol nicely. Actually, this is a nice article about algae and biodiesel, as well as using it to clean CO2 emissions from factories. Interesting.

Yup, that too, fairly recent I believe and just the other day I heard a report that some group got funding to build on that research.

I remeber too years ago, hearing about a guy that came up with the idea of injecting water mist in a carburated vehicle, it made a sizeable increase in miles per gallon, next thing the car/gas/oil companies (I forget which one) bought up the idea and well,,, that was the last of that idea.

RM

 

[RJM2096]

Merging of the oil companies.

While demand is up, in the US and world we have so few oil companies with any real access to crude. What do we expect? When Exon bought Mobil, British Petroleum bought Amoco, Cheveron bought Arco (??), and Phillips 66 bought Texaco(??), we should have seen it comming. It is just like the cable TV companies buying each other out. Lots of commericials and shi+ for quality programs. Big companies are not going to be happy until the take all of the money from the middle class each month.

Monthly bills from business semi-monopolies who pay off a lot to congress and political parties.
Cable/Satellite: $50-$100
Utilities: $200-$500
Phone/Internet: $100-$200
Health Insurance $400-$1000 (if you can get it)
Gasoline $400-600

It is no wonder they have so much to give to get favorable conditions for their businesses.

Sorry, the credit cards companies changed the rules so you can't even go bankrupt if the courts deem you can make a payment on your large sucker loans at 24% interest.

 

[kbasa]

Lack of refineries is a BIG issue. Years ago, larger oil companies purchased refineries and then promptly closed them. Real nice. Now they want government help (last I heard, in the form of free land) to build new refineries. It's their own fault for closing them in the first place, although I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing.

As for previous comments about drilling in Alaska and other places, there are issues there, as well. For one, every time they go into a new place they claim "minimal environmental impact" but each time there is a spill, or they find the roads/construction permanently change the landscape, or they negatively impact wildlife in the area. "Zero impact" just doesn't happen. They could do it, but it wouldn't make the drilling profitable.

Second, if they started working on new oil drilling in AK right now, it would be YEARS before any oil was produced... that doesn't fix anything now. In the meantime there ARE places they can try to extract oil that wouldn't be an environmental problem. Look up some info on the "oil sands" in Northern Canada. That looks like an interesting idea, and there is LOTS up there. Current prices now make it a profitable option.

Third, E85 is sadly a joke. It's suddenly becoming too expensive to produce as the price of corn increases, which also leads to more expensive food. You also get worse gas mileage per gallon than standard gas. I don't think E85 is going to stick around, very long. In fact, I think it's in our best interests that it NOT stick around.

Finally, our best bet is probably conservation... which is why I have bikes that get at least 40mpg, and I ride them whenever there isn't ice on the road or I don't have anything to haul.

Well considered post, Josh.

I agree that the items we've been discussing as "solutions" really aren't going to help much.

My suspicion is that we're going to have more "locally grown" energy solutions, which will power regions in some fashion. Hydro power in some places, wind or solar in others, combined with more traditional sources like coal or oil. I believe Honda has said that their FCX fuel cell vehicle will come with a home hydrogen generation system that uses natural gas for a source of H2. I could see someone building a solar powered device that would split water into H2 and 02, essentially for free and powering a vehicle with that.

I think that our response to oil should be to foster further innovation of technologies like this. Where we once led the manufacturing world by building cars and making steel and exporting them, I think we have an opportunity to become the world leader in renewable energy source technology. At that point, the Chinese would be buying from us.

But we need leadership that's willing to initiate that effort and provide an environment that will help incubate such technologies to some degree.

Do we have the gumption to do it?

 

[RJM2096]

Alternative fuels

I read about a New Mexico company that is working to grow algae on mass in the dessert via hydroponics.

If they can succeed in converting it to an oil or achohol without using tons of energy to do it, that could be an answer. After all, oil is broken down carbon plant matter.

 

[BeemerMike]

GAS hits $108.75 US

You mean CRUDE OIL hits $108.75 US, and even then it is a specific crude oil (probably WTI or NSB).