Ethanol

[BeemerMike]

RBOB regular gasoline to be blended with alcohol ships as 83.7 octane and is sold as 87 octane after the alcohol is added. So the alcohol does have a higher octane number, but doesn't mean it is nearly as efficient as gasoline

Sounds about right. Ethanol is an octane booster (higher octane rating - about 113 - compared to the base gasoline), BUT ethanol has LESS energy than the gasoline, so when you blend it in the result is LESS energy per unit volume, and therefore less mpg.

 

[BeemerMike]

It does and I am not the only one that found that out.

I believe that ethanol has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline, so I would not expect that a 10% ethanol blend would drop your fuel mileage by 10% unless there is something else going on.

 

[Altritter]

<<From the reading I have done on it, I anticipate lower gas mileage and shorter life on the rubber internals. I expect to rebuild the carbs a little more often than was required pre-ethanol. Not much I can do about the mileage, but understanding that it will be affected is helpful in evaluating whether the motorcycle is running properly.>

This reply makes me feel better. I recall reading in literature (Clymer's? The original owner's manual?) on my recently-purchased 1981 R65 that one should never run ethanol-based fuel.

I already knew about ethanol's destructive tendencies with rubber fuel lines, etc. It's slightly reassuring that there is no more damage than that in the works.

 

[RIDERR1150GSADV]

I believe that ethanol has about 2/3 the energy content of gasoline, so I would not expect that a 10% ethanol blend would drop your fuel mileage by 10% unless there is something else going on.

I keep a detailed record of fuel consumption as less MPG would indicate an issue.
My friends/collegues on the water have noticed the same, and so we are no longer buying that type of gas...YMMV

 

[535IS]

"The Nation". Now, THERE'S an unbiased source for your scientific and technical information.

Jamie Kitman, however, is a respected automotive writer whose words have often educated me. These are no different. The story (which I have yet to finish, but have bookmarked) is fascinating.

Reading this account as a former chemical researcher, I found no questionable science in it. Only questionable practices in the pursuit of pure profit by early GM and DuPont owners.

 

[BeemerMike]

Only questionable practices in the pursuit of pure profit by early GM and DuPont owners.

I don't believe I have ever heard of Jamie Kitman, so no opinion. However, when an article starts speculating on peoples motives for taking certain actions, especially motives long ago, then you are moving away from science and technology expertise. My point was that the part of the article I read did not discuss lead in house paint, which from my reading is recognized as a significant source of lead in children's blood. Seems to be a curious oversight in the article, especially in a magazine that has a reputation for a specific political perspective.

 

[535IS]

I don't believe I have ever heard of Jamie Kitman, so no opinion. However, when an article starts speculating on peoples motives for taking certain actions, especially motives long ago, then you are moving away from science and technology expertise.

Since you have obviously not read enough of the article to see the 'paper trail' he used to draw these conclusions, I suggest you do so. It is pretty blatant, even some 80 years later. As for Kitman himself, Google is your friend.

My point was that the part of the article I read did not discuss lead in house paint, which from my reading is recognized as a significant source of lead in children's blood. Seems to be a curious oversight in the article, especially in a magazine that has a reputation for a specific political perspective.

Basically, you'll let the messenger live because he seems innocent, but you want to ignore the message because it's printed on the wrong color paper. Fine. Your choice. What you're missing is, regardless of politics, a remarkable piece of historical research and exposition.

 

[lkchris]

The lubricating properties of lead in valve guides seems to be the primary concern about lead-free fuel now, for airheads.

No, the concern is building valve seats of the correct materials.

When lead was first being phased out in the 1970s, Mercedes stated they had never built an engine that required lead.

I haven't read the article in its entirety recently, but it did at one point contain a side bar showing evidence that there never was benefit to engines from lead in fuel.

Nobody's blamed any NASCAR engine failures on removal of lead either.

It was, is, and always will be a hoax.

 

[72598]

I have a 74 Harley that will not run on the 10% blend here in Colorado or California, but runs fine on 10% blend in Wyoming or South Dakota. Also the Colo/Cal blends smell different.

Plug life on the California blends was reduced to about 300 miles as opposed to 3000 with a 72 HD back in 97. (my other 72 HD w/high preformance motor was uneffected just the one with stock motor)

I had a Ford Thunderbird that got 24mph w/gas and only 7 w/10%blends. With my airheads the only thing I noticed was decreased mileage and plug life. (about 5000 max instead of the recommended 8000) With my cars and trucks, except T Bird, mileage drops from 5 to 10% using the blends.

Also my lawn mower (2 stroke) does not seem to like the blends.

Engine failure is not the problem premature wear is. NASCAR engines don't last long enough to wear out.

 

[8ninety8]

gas

I too live in Minnesota and back in the nineties when the law mandated the use to ethanol, we (I) complained much. The law as passed finally provided that unleaded non-ethanol gas could be sold to customers with the need for their collector or other types of vehicles, legally.

So, a mile or so away, at Bill's Superette, there is a pump with one nozzle pumping 92 straight unleaded gas. I use it in my R90S and lawnmower. Works great. Only if I get on the throttle hard fully warmed up in high gear will I hear a little rattle. Just back off a bit and everything is copesthetic. (sp?)

I last paid $3.79 a gallon.

AS for talking politics, there is virtually nothing one can do today that is not a political act whether driving your pick-up truck, mowing the lawn, or riding your motorcycle.

In MHO, allowing no drilling for oil in our country, declaring polar bears to be endangered, mandating ethanol, etc. are no more than a means of controlling production. Controlling production is one of the acts of revolutionaries.

IMHO motorcyclists, BMW riders included, must be very vigilent of what is presently occurring. Maybe political thought is congruent with discussing gas/ethanol? No squeak, no grease. Later Dudes and Dudettes.

 

[swall]

The primary benefit of lead in motor fuel in the form of tetraethylead (TEL) is to raise octane. This allows higher compression ratios and increased power and efficiency. Kettering at GM was one of the first to discover the advantages of TEL in the '20's when the fuel quality (i.e. octane) was poor. The prevention of valve seat wear was also discovered as a benefit of TEL. Now having said this, as a professional metallurgist, I can state that the valve seat wear is easily fixed by metallurgy changes, although this does increase costs. Octane can be boosted by additions of aromatics, such as toluene to the fuel, as well as starting out with a base stock of refined gasoline that has a higher octane to begin with. TEL was, and still is, the way to get the most band out of your buck when the objective is to make high octane fuel. Of course, catalytic converters can't take it.

 

[8ninety8]

lead in gas

I've been riding my '74 R90S for a while. Two longer rides out West and back, with unleaded gas, no ethanol to my knowledge, and have yet to discover radical valve lash closing up. The heads were cleaned up once when I dual plugged, but when the Accel unit went bad, I just installed the standard ignition several years ago.

It's only got 47K on it, maybe things will get worse. I'm wondering if ethanol has the same burn time as straight gas? If not, wouldn't changing the timing be required to use ethanol? Ethanol may soon be all that is available? There was a time in the late eighties when "BMW experts" cautioned to never ever use ethanol, period.

 

[88bmwjeff]

In MHO, allowing no drilling for oil in our country, declaring polar bears to be endangered, mandating ethanol, etc. are no more than a means of controlling production. Controlling production is one of the acts of revolutionaries.

Actually, I all believe we are doing is postponing the drilling in these areas. I'm for the environment, but let's be realistic. If gas were $10 per gallon or worse not available, there would be pressure to provide gas at lower the cost, and the benefits would out weigh the risks; however, this is not the case now.

 

[swall]

I've ridden to Prudhoe Bay and seen the terrain. In my opinion, the arctic "wilderness" is not all that spectacular. Just flat,barren rock and gravel with patches of groundcover that looks a lot like Pachysandra. I think we can afford to lose a couple hundred acres of that stuff. I would venture that 90% of the people that want to save this "pristine wilderness" have never been there.

 

[8ninety8]

cool my valves

The extent of the drilling footprint in ANWAR is analogous to a dime on a basketball court. Below negligible. Other than that, just checked my valves after 1500 miles, exhaust a little tight. A slight pull.

I think the older airheads don't have a problem with unleaded. However, I travel as lightly as possible, don't strain the bike. With a 336 cam, with more overlap, and the same compression ratio, it runs with lower cylinder head pressures, thus cooler. Or I may be imagining things?

 

[RIDERR1150GSADV]

I've ridden to Prudhoe Bay and seen the terrain. In my opinion, the arctic "wilderness" is not all that spectacular. Just flat,barren rock and gravel with patches of groundcover that looks a lot like Pachysandra. I think we can afford to lose a couple hundred acres of that stuff. I would venture that 90% of the people that want to save this "pristine wilderness" have never been there.

+1!! There is not a whole lot to look at up there.. The ride however was the adventure to me.
FWIW, Anwar has already been drilled. Think about what a 4 foot diameter oil pipe can actually carry...