Electric Gremlins 2016 R1200 RT Part 2

[217don]

I posted several years ago on this topic and it has reappeared. Tried to go for a ride today and when I turned on the key, the dash went thru its usual start up but when I pushed the starter button absolutely nothing. I pulled the battery out and took it to the dealer and it tested bad. It had been replaced in April 2021. Since the bike was delivered in Nov 2016, I have had 4 batteries - this will be number 5. The bike is always kept on a BMW brand trickle charge plugged into the accessory port. There seems to be some discussion that the battery cannot be charged this way. So I am wondering:

1. is the accessory port faulty?
2. Is the charger faulty?
3. Is there a parasitic drain so big that the trickle charger can't overcome it?

How would I check the charger? The screen on the charger says it is maintaining the battery at 100%.

Any advice on how to pull the accessory socket to check it?

Any logical places to look first for a parasitic drain?

Thanks for any assistance.

Jim

 

[Omega Man]

I can recommend skipping the BMW outlet. While I have read that there is a procedure to use the outlet for charging, I don't thin a "procedure" is needed.
I would go direct to the battery with an SAE connector-

They are available everywhere and come with all the Battery Tender chargers I have purchased. IMO, there is only confusion having to get a computer in the middle of a maintenance trickle charge.

Good luck.

OM

 

[RadioFlyer]

I concur that having the ZFE interposed between the battery charger and the battery is an unnecessary complication.

Note however that where the battery charger goes direct to the battery while in the bike and the charger has an automatic desulphation mode there is a risk of damage. See post #3 here:
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?102350-Battery-and-related-charger

This risk can be eliminated either by not using a charger with an automatic desulphation mode or, if that mode is present, disabling it if that is an option.

 

[217don]

I concur that having the ZFE interposed between the battery charger and the battery is an unnecessary complication.

Note however that where the battery charger goes direct to the battery while in the bike and the charger has an automatic desulphation mode there is a risk of damage. See post #3 here:
https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?102350-Battery-and-related-charger

This risk can be eliminated either by not using a charger with an automatic desulphation mode or, if that mode is present, disabling it if that is an option.

What's a ZFE? When I googled it, came up with Zambia Federation of Employers. I certainly don't want them in my charging circuit! As well meaning as I am sure they are.

But seriously, does the charger not work when plugged into the accessory socket on the fairing? Even if it doesn't work, wouldn't one think a battery would last more than a year? I have ridden several times earlier this season with no starting issues....

Could the BMW trickle charger actually be destroying the battery?

 

[217don]

Incidentally there are no other electrics installed (driving lights, etc.). Nor is there a top box.

 

[Omega Man]

What's a ZFE? When I googled it, came up with Zambia Federation of Employers. I certainly don't want them in my charging circuit! As well meaning as I am sure they are.

But seriously, does the charger not work when plugged into the accessory socket on the fairing? Even if it doesn't work, wouldn't one think a battery would last more than a year? I have ridden several times earlier this season with no starting issues....

Could the BMW trickle charger actually be destroying the battery?

ZFE is just the computer. Can-Buss is the computer network ......or the other way around I just refer to it as the computer. I can't tell on the BMW charger and actually prefer the Battery Tender units for their LED indication simplicity.
If you are going for another battery, it may be a perfect time to try a more simple approach. Direct to the battery takes that "procedure" that is needed to keep the accessory outlet live and able to charge the battery out of the picture.
OM

 

[RadioFlyer]

ZFE is the common acronym for the German Zentrale Fahrzeugelektronik usually translated as Central Chassis Electronics. The ZFE is a controller that controls all chassis electrics.

The CAN-bus is a a Controller Area Network and the means by which the various controllers on the bike communicate amongst themselves.

CAN-bus is very misused term, far too often used when the correct term is ZFE.

The ZFE does a handshake with the BMW charger and the Optimate 4 charger (amongst others) to connect the the charger to the battery following a sequence involving the ignition switch.

The BMW charger, when connected per the instructions, will not damage anything. I use the Optimate 4 connected directly to the battery. It has two modes. In the CAN-bus (sic) mode it limits the voltage presented to the battery even if the battery is sulphated so it is safe to use it directly connected while the battery is in the bike.

 

[mikegalbicka]

On my 07RT I have owned since 2014 I have used an Optimate 4 charger hooked to the rear accessory plug whenever parked. My average battery life is 4 years which is good in the Florida heat. Your battery failure rate certainly shows the charger is not doing the job or you have a parasitic draw down as you suspect.

 

[217don]

On my 07RT I have owned since 2014 I have used an Optimate 4 charger hooked to the rear accessory plug whenever parked. My average battery life is 4 years which is good in the Florida heat. Your battery failure rate certainly shows the charger is not doing the job or you have a parasitic draw down as you suspect.

Thank you. Any suggestions as to where to start looking for a draw down? Would it have to be a terrific drain to overcome the effect of the charger?

Any suggestion as to how to test the charger? As you may have guessed from my posts, electricity is not my strong suit.

 

[217don]

This is the charger I use.

 

[217don]

ZFE is just the computer. Can-Buss is the computer network ......or the other way around I just refer to it as the computer. I can't tell on the BMW charger and actually prefer the Battery Tender units for their LED indication simplicity.
If you are going for another battery, it may be a perfect time to try a more simple approach. Direct to the battery takes that "procedure" that is needed to keep the accessory outlet live and able to charge the battery out of the picture.
OM

I have a Battery Tender, too and will hook it up directly as you suggest when I put in the new battery (which had to be ordered)……

 

[Rainman48]

I'm just going to say this - and I'm sure it will be unpopular, but,...
Back in the mid 2000's, my BMW Dealer threw out all those BMW chargers they used and wouldn't even sell them (or at least wouldn't recommended them at all). That's stuck with me and I have never bought one or used one. My batteries in three different BMW last at least 5 years. Instead of throwing more money at more batteries, I'd do as others have suggested and ditch the overly complicated ZFE controlled charger and buy a modern battery charger that has all the brains you need and connect it directly to the battery on your bike. That BMW charger looks as old as a black & white TV from the '50s. It's probably the culprit, and I'd guess you've had that longer than your '16 RT. Newer ones have way more smarts in them and can accommodate all sorts of modern batteries just fine.

 

[RadioFlyer]

I'm just going to say this - and I'm sure it will be unpopular, but,...
Back in the mid 2000's, my BMW Dealer threw out all those BMW chargers they used and wouldn't even sell them (or at least wouldn't recommended them at all). That's stuck with me and I have never bought one or used one. My batteries in three different BMW last at least 5 years. Instead of throwing more money at more batteries, I'd do as others have suggested and ditch the overly complicated ZFE controlled charger and buy a modern battery charger that has all the brains you need and connect it directly to the battery on your bike. That BMW charger looks as old as a black & white TV from the '50s. It's probably the culprit, and I'd guess you've had that longer than your '16 RT. Newer ones have way more smarts in them and can accommodate all sorts of modern batteries just fine.

Actually your points are quite valid. It is not at all uncommon to go into a BMW dealer and see bikes on non-BMW chargers.

See my post #3 though about the potential risk of using a "smart" charger with a desulphation mode while the battery is in the bike.

 

[217don]

I’ll look for an Optimate charger. Distressing to think that I am destroying my batteries with the charger!

 

[davemoto]

My 2014 RT would also kill off the battery if it sat for a couple weeks. No real explanation and i never have found a real issue. When replacing the battery I decided to install a fused powerlet socket directly to the battery in the small side cover and since have used that to connect a battery tender charger. No battery issues since and another fairly convenient powerlet socket to use. You could actually put the powerlet socket anywhere and just run longer wires to the battery for even better socket location.

 

[brownie0486]

Not going to ever entertain using the canbus powerlet to trickle charge the bikes. Never have had had an issue using battery connected sae 2 pin to connect to my charger which charges then maintains the battery appropriately.

 

[RadioFlyer]

And a reminder that anything connected to the battery should be fused near the battery.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

 

[217don]

So if I am following the thread correctly, the consensus seems to be that the charger is likely the problem and that there might not be any other problem with the bike.

It just seems so troubling that the batteries are lasting only 1 to 2 years.


It also seems that the recommendation is to charge directly to the battery without using the DIN plug on the fairing.

I ordered the Optimate 4 for BMW charger from Revzilla and a new battery from my local dealer.

The bike does have an extended warranty - any recommendations as to what I should ask the dealer to check?

Thanks again for the collective wisdom.

 

[strataj]

I too had bad luck the the OEM battery in my 14R1200RT, the dealer replaced at no charge at 2 years. It didn't seem to be preforming and I was leaving on an extended trip, I replaced at 2 years with Yuasa YTX20CH-BS for $83.74. Sold the bike with the 4 year old battery going strong.

 

[mikegalbicka]

Use the new Optimate 4/BMW in canbus mode hooked to your powerlet like I do and see what kind of life you get out of your new battery. If you watch the charging indication you should be able to tell if there is a big drain on your system when not running. My guess is your old charger was the problem and hopefully you will be fine now. If you are wary of charging it in this way because of the naysayers (it has been rock solid on my bike) change the mode to direct battery and install a fused pigtail as others suggested. I also quit buying the OEM dealer batteries because of the premium price and poorer performance. There are many good substitutes that are cheaper and last longer. But it should definitely do better than your previous experience.