Do you want the new R1300 water cooled engine boxer?

[tsconver]

The more I look at engines throughout history, the more I see the problems they are trying to solve changing. When engines are changed for reliability and efficiency reasons, that's a good thing. When they are changed to make more power, that's a good thing (provided it's not at the expense of reliability).

But it seems that in recent years, the internal combustion engine was pretty much perfected. Now they are getting worse. As emissions and economy regulations get tighter, so much money has to be spent on meeting regulations and that causes complexity.

The last of the air cooled BMW boxers is what my bike has. The "camhead". Is it the most powerful? No. But it's a wonderful street engine and I can't think of a reason I'd want more than that engine offers. I had two 1150 boxers before my current bike and the camhead is leaps and bounds better. The fact that it's still in production is a real testament to how good that engine is. It's a pleasure to work on too.

Do I want the new 1300 boxer? Yeah...I'd take one. But do I need it? No. And I wouldn't be willing to spend the money required to get one.

Pretty sure the camhead is oil cooled. 1997 was the last airhead.

 

[Omega Man]

I was clarifying your assertion that depreciation and maintenance don't matter on leases.

They do. You "trade it in" at the end of the lease and if you've depreciated the car through lack of maintenance or it's in poor condition, you pay at that point. They have a little template they use for things like stains, dents and scratches to determine whether they can reduce the residual value further.

Not my assertion at all. Almost anyone that I have asked about why they leased a vehicle insisted that leasing made vehicle acquisition affordable……to them.

OM

 

[pglaves]

Not my assertion at all. Almost anyone that I have asked about why they leased a vehicle insisted that leasing made vehicle acquisition affordable……to them.

OM

I suspect that some of those folks ought to be looking for good used cars, even if it does damage their self image.

 

[kbasa]

I suspect that some of those folks ought to be looking for good used cars, even if it does damage their self image.

I've known lots of folks in sales that had to cover a physical territory. Leasing was great for them and their comp plan usually included a car allowance. Depending on their territory, it wasn't unusual for them to put 60k miles on in 24 months, so they'd wind up cycling through cars pretty regularly.

For private purchasers? Buy used. Same for bikes, for me. I'm done buying new vehicles. I let someone else eat that big 30% depreciation in the first 3 or so years. CPOs are pretty terrific purchases and have been where we sourced our last 4 "main" cars.

 

[senseamidmadness]

sooner or later someone other than BMW will build another mid-size boxer twin, and likely at low cost.

I sincerely doubt it. Motorcycle manufacturers have figured out that a parallel-twin with a 720-degree firing order produces similar characteristics to and is far cheaper to make than a boxer twin. Very few bikes are being made air-cooled now or being engineered for user maintenance and those are the two biggest benefits of a traditional boxer twin. No company will be able to make a boxer at a price competitive to something like a Royal Enfield because a boxer engine costs a fortune to make relative to other engine layouts and the benefits simply don't outweigh the increased cost.

Honda only makes the boxer-six on one of their highest-profit-margin models, whose MSRP is quite high. The only company that isn't BMW still plugging along with boxer twins is Ural and obsolescence ("heritage") is part of their brand. They don't even sell anything with two wheels and none of their models are cheap.


If BMW thought there was a market for a cheap mid-size boxer twin they probably would still be making one -- and they once did with the R850R. It sold so badly here in the United States that they stopped importing it after just 2 model years, but they kept making it in Europe until 2009. The 850 models were sold as a whole family over there with a GS, an RT, and even a C model. But they didn't keep making a midsize when Oilheads became Hexheads and Camheads and Wetheads.
Conversely, look what they're now selling plenty of: a gigantic 1800cc air-cooled boxer twin model that's aimed right at the American market and Harley-Davidson. That's what the people who buy motorcycles here want. Harley still owns something like 40 percent of the motorcycle market in the US.

 

[stevenrankin]

Off Thread

Leasing is terrific for the bottom line of manufacturers who either lease via their own programs or get a cut from approved companies.

Sadly a lot of people are fooled into thinking leasing is the best way to go in order to get the car or bike they "want" without thinking through the plus and minus aspects. St.

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

Back on topic to the original question; No not interested. My 2018 GSA is my last big bike and I will ride it for as long as possible.

 

[EUGENE]

Back on topic to the original question; No not interested. My 2018 GSA is my last big bike and I will ride it for as long as possible.

I totally agree! Not interested and I will ride my current bike for as long as possible.

 

[brownie0486]

Not interested in a new Beemer. In 6 years I've owned 4 of them. 07 K1200; 12R1200GS; 11R1200RT and a 16R1200RS. Still have the RT and RS, all bought used. I gave the 12GT to my brother who'd not owned a street bike but was quite experienced in off road riding for decades. He out rides me and took to the GT in just a few hours in the saddle.

Back in the early 90's I had an 89 K100RS. Wonderful bike that ran like a swiss watch at 163K miles until it was totaled in an accident. Presently looking for a K75 with the right stuff that's been pampered, that'll replace the 16RS.

Nothing new from BMW interests me. I don't ride the RS but local twisties couple time a month, the RT gets most of the duty. That camhead RT was what I sought after owning the 12GS. I like the fact it's the culmination of 70+ years of improvements, though I have to say, the 16RS is a superb motorcycle in the WC boxer and has a lot more pep in it's step than the RT.

Likely will keep both for a few more years and then I'll be back on a fairly new GW with CsC trike kit installed. That'll be the last bike I own.

 

[BC1100S]

When my current bike wears out (or I get tired of it), I'll happily buy a 1300.

 

[oldcamper]

No for me as well, as the current R1200GS is heavy and powerful enough at this stage in life. I might be interested in a real Chinese bike next time though, and not just one with a Chinese engine. The CFMoto 650/700 MT is interesting, but I hold out hope for a mid-size Chinese boxer.

 

[migrant]

Not for me. The '18 RT is my 9th and likely final BMW at 70 yrs old. Reasons: more complex, no maintenance manual available, heavier.

 

[drneo66]

No for me as well, as the current R1200GS is heavy and powerful enough at this stage in life. I might be interested in a real Chinese bike next time though, and not just one with a Chinese engine. The CFMoto 650/700 MT is interesting, but I hold out hope for a mid-size Chinese boxer.

My good friend has a CFmoto IBex and flogs the heck out of it with no problems so far. The fit and finish is really decent. I'll agree, it's hard to get behind BMW anymore without a decent DIY solution...

 

[Ponch1]

no

 

[pglaves]

I personally am very happy with my G310GS and two K75s. I liked my R1150R and would appreciate an R1200R. Newer? Nah!! Bigger? Why??

 

[kbasa]

I personally am very happy with my G310GS and two K75s. I liked my R1150R and would appreciate an R1200R. Newer? Nah!! Bigger? Why??

Because punching out on corner exit and getting a big "crack the whip" style acceleration off the apex is highly addictive. And just like other addictions, eventually you need bigger and bigger doses to get the same effect.

Might not be your riding style, but for lots of us, it is a big part of why we ride. Or have dedicated sports cars to replicate that while sitting side by side with our favorite co-pilot.

 

[pglaves]

Because punching out on corner exit and getting a big "crack the whip" style acceleration off the apex is highly addictive. And just like other addictions, eventually you need bigger and bigger doses to get the same effect.

Might not be your riding style, but for lots of us, it is a big part of why we ride. Or have dedicated sports cars to replicate that while sitting side by side with our favorite co-pilot.

As I get older the more of a smell-the-flowers and enjoy the scenery rider I have become. After finishing two Iron Butt Rallies I now think 500 miles is a long day. After almost a dozen on-track proficiency schools or track days I don't need that adrenaline-junky thrill any more.

 

[kbasa]

As I get older the more of a smell-the-flowers and enjoy the scenery rider I have become. After finishing two Iron Butt Rallies I now think 500 miles is a long day. After almost a dozen on-track proficiency schools or track days I don't need that adrenaline-junky thrill any more.

I can dig it. I live in a place where the roads kind of encourage it.

 

[globalrider]

Those days are gone.

I'll tell you one thing, if I had to do a RTW tour, it would be on an AIRHEAD GS. I can fix that anywhere.

 

[globalrider]

Last week I was on a short two-day tour on my 2016 R1200 GS Adventure.

125 HP is more than I needed since I never had it above 5000 RPM and passed multiple cars on the highway as if they were standing still.

And they want to sell me something with about 143 HP and more high-tech BS. Didn't the R1250 GS come with variable cam timing? WTF do I need that for.

But luckily we have consumers that buy new as soon as it comes out.



But I had fun working on my 1990 BMW R100 GS today. KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid!