Cycle World Article

[mika]

Okay another hijack, but one that takes us back to the CW article.

CW has been characterized as a variety of things including the propaganda arm of the UJM manufacturers, an advertising supplement masquerading as a motorcycle magazine to killer of the F800.

What do you expect from any magazine in a review such as this?

 

[mslscott]

Anyone read the Cycle World article "BMW F800ST vs. Honda Interceptor" in this months Cycle World? I read it and found it disturbing and bias for Honda. How does everyone else read it?http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=407

Somethings I found questionable were their power and torque rateings (I think they said they reported torque as 52 Ft/lb @8000 RPM, BMW reports it as 63 lb/ft @ 5800 rpm, and power as 85 bhp @ 8000 rpm). Also, they dinged the F800ST because it is a light bike compared to the Honda! I really think they were unfair to the F800ST!

I've read the CW review, and I too felt it was fairly unbiased. In fact, after having read the article, I wouldn't mind owning both bikes. The BMW F800ST for my wife, and the Honda VFR800 for myself.

 

[twintoaster2]

Valve JOB Cost

Has anyone give'en thought of how much a valve adjustment would cost between the Honda and the Beemer. I know the Honda is between $400 and $600 thats if you need to add shims. Also the VFR may go threw front tires quicker. JT

 

[kreinke]

I've read the CW review, and I too felt it was fairly unbiased. In fact, after having read the article, I wouldn't mind owning both bikes. The BMW F800ST for my wife, and the Honda VFR800 for myself.

"BMW's speedometer is to small, has a plastic urine cup for a brake fluid reseroir."
I notice they didn't say a word about the twin "urine cup" resovoirs(clutch and brake) on the Concourse 14 in the very same issure.

Don't get me wrong here. The VFR is a great bike with a long and honorable history....but then again so does the 883 Sportster.

Kidding aside, the things that make a good sport tourer for its intended audience are good handling, good gas mileage, reliability, and maintenance costs (which BTW CW made NO mention of). In these areas the F800 has the Interceptor beat.
Really, dinging a bike because of it's resovoirs? Look at the brake resovoir on this Gixxer. They didn't say anything about that.

http://performancemotorcycleproducts.com/images/GSXR1000-05%20
Blue.JPG

We've seen it from CW before. When they reviewed the Yamaha GTS1000 they loved the fact that the James Parker designed front end with hub center steering isolated the rider from bumps. When you have such a front end on a Beemer the magazines say they don't like the disconnected, vague feel.

Both say the same thing but in a glass half full/half empty context.

Why can Kawasaki's expensive supersport tourer and Ducati's Hypermotard have "urine-cup" resovoirs and not a BMW?

The article would have been more fair if the final paragraph would have said something like "The Interceptor is still good. But for BMW to design a bike this good right off the bat should put Honda on notice."

 

[Ridealot]

But why anyone would think it's better to always have to get off the bike, I don't understand.

O.K. I will attempt to explain it once again to you. If you actually ever travel somewhere on your bike you may find that a tank bag gives you the ability to carry things that you would like to have handy. Now suppose that every time you stopped for gas you had to either remove the tank bag or disconnect one end of it so that you could move it out of the way of the gas cap. With me so far? Now suppose that you could just leave the tank bag alone. On a F800 with the underseat tank simply swing a leg off the seat (if you rode any distance this would be a welcome move to walk around a little) and fill the tank without messing with the tank bag.

I always get off of my bikes to gas them up. Especially if I am doing a multi tank day. But then again my K bike tank is 9 gallons. It the end of that far its a pleasure to get off for awhile.

 

[mika]

O.K. I will attempt to explain it once again to you. If you actually ever travel somewhere on your bike you may find ...

This could be fun,

 

[Rinty]

cycle world

Before I demo'd the F 800 S, I told the BMW Canada guy that the first thing the aftermarket would provide for it is a more aesthetic brake reservoir and hardware to move it to a less conspicuous position. He said he didn't think so, because BMW had tried about 17 different positions, and the one where the reservoir ended up at was the only one that would work.

Just passing this on......

Rinty

 

[PAGoldsby]

I always dismount when refueling. Having been killed in a fire once already in this life, I don't particularly relish the thought of having a lap full of burning gasoline.

 

[knary]

O.K. I will attempt to explain it once again to you. If you actually ever travel somewhere on your bike

If you're going to toss some stinky bait out, you can't just toss it in the water. You need to finesse it, give the line some artful tugs, if you the fish to take the hook.

p.s. You need to buy better tankbags.

 

[tessler]

If you're going to toss some stinky bait out, you can't just toss it in the water. You need to finesse it, give the line some artful tugs, if you the fish to take the hook.

p.s. You need to buy better tankbags.

Ah, yes... Knary and those olfactorial analogies again...

 

[braddog]

Read the article...

I'm glad they mentioned the short distance from the peg to seat. As someone who has had knee surgery it is very uncomfortable to have my knees bent at to sharp of an angle. If I test ride an F800 I will be sure to check that.

I read the article, and wasn't surprised by the results. I, too, was disappointed in the "urine cup" reference, given how Japanese manufacturers do the clutch and brake reservoirs. I guess they could put it under the tank, just like the old airheads used to.

I've not test ridden the F800 models, but have sat on both the S and ST. I was disappointed in the ST. My knees don't bend like they used to due to surgeries, injuries, etc. The "S" is actually more comfortable for me than the "ST". This is probably due to the greater lean forward or whatever. I don't know, I just know where I was more comfortable.

The VFR has almost ALWAYS had good reviews from mags. Considering that the F800 is a new model, and the VFR has evolved over 25 years, I think it did very well in comparison.

 

[kbasa]

A discerning reader in the market for either of these bikes would find that the details favor the BMW, despite the homage to the squids.

They try to sell quarter mile times as a factor, which is what squids read, but is not really relevant for these bikes.

The meat is in the details.

A 25 year old model vs. a new design.
Unscrapable pegs.
Adjustable width bags.
Smoother engine.
equal price tags. (the biggest draw for BMW right there!)
37 mpg vs. 46 mpg

The VFR is hardly a 25 year old model. It's a model that's been offered for 25 years, which is pretty longstanding. However, the current version arrived in 2002, I believe.

 

[OfficerImpersonator]

I had no idea one needed to remove one's tank bag to add fuel to a conventional motorcycle fuel tank...

http://www.bigmakaccess.com/

Mini-serve in Oregon does suck - big time.

I'll always top-off before entering Oregon just so I can avoid even having to consider buying gas in a state that doesn't trust it's citizens to fill their own tanks.

Oh - I rode a F800ST last week as a service loaner. It was a cute little toy. Didn't feel like there was much motorcycle beneath me, though. I felt like my chin was out over the front of the front tire. Guess I'm just too used to the size of the X5 - er - I mean RT.

 

[knary]

I had no idea one needed to remove one's tank bag to add fuel to a conventional motorcycle fuel tank...

http://www.bigmakaccess.com/

Mini-serve in Oregon does suck - big time.

I'll always top-off before entering Oregon just so I can avoid even having to consider buying gas in a state that doesn't trust it's citizens to fill their own tanks.

Oh - I rode a F800ST last week as a service loaner. It was a cute little toy. Didn't feel like there was much motorcycle beneath me, though. I felt like my chin was out over the front of the front tire. Guess I'm just too used to the size of the X5 - er - I mean RT.

Bigmak is local to me. Nice stuff, I guess, but I've never liked how they looked. Sort of expensive stuff.

Oregon trusts their citizens. They just think more people need jobs.

 

[Rinty]

Cycle World article

I don't like how they look either. Tank bags offer a delicate balance of convenience and inconvenience. On the one hand, they require a bit of work to put on and to slide back before refueling; on the other hand, they are a super convenient place to put all your little travelling do dads.

For short trips, I'm thinking of just getting a small satchel to put all my tank bag stuff in, and then placing that in the right saddle bag, which is my "road bag". And I don't use maps on those trips anyway.

urine cups

I just re read a Hyper Motard test, and noticed it has two of them. And this bike won Best of Show in Milan! So if they're aesthetic enough for Pierre Terblanche, perhaps we (well, probably just a very few of us) needn't agonize over them.

Rinty

 

[klrobins]

I thought the article was ok. Having owned a VFR and ridden the 800ST, I'd take the VFR hands down... Its much smoother in shifting, has a hydraulic clutch, and pretty much looks nicer imho. The ST is very similar in riding position and feel but I found the VFR a lot quicker and the vtec is awesome!

.... Then again my 1200GS kicks both the ST and VFR's butt, so maybe I'm biased?

 

[85138]

MCN article

Motorcycle Consumer News has a 'gushing' write-up on the F800ST. Minor nit w/ the ABS activation (repeatability issue and brake feel).

Now let's see some of you complain about that article

Weight difference almost 20lbs. Somebody needs to calibrate their scale. (MCN lighter at 478lbs) Don't think the saddlebags would account for 20lbs if that was the difference in config.

Hmmmm ... still on the fantasy list for next Spring.

 

[rkasal]

I saw the article

And frankly, it turned me off of the 800ST which I have been considering adding to the stable. I like the 800 ST and have sat on a lowered version. Once I get ready to pull the trigger when prices are down this winter, I'll take it for a ride. I think once I ride one, it will be ok.

The part in question was the diving under braking. A couple of other nibbles but that is what concerned me as it is a BMW.

It's always good to take reviews and political opinions with a grain of salt.


Randy Kasal

 

[dlearl476]

The VFr has a chain drive whereas the Beemer has a belt (some F650CS owners have gotten over 100,000 miles out of theirs).

Pray tell, who is this person. I know of exactly ONE person with 100,000+ on a CS and IIRC, he's on his second (or third) belt. (if 3, one was due to a bad wheel pulley which was replaced under warranty)

 

[LENRT1200ST]

I like the F800 series. But, the 2007 VFR has a bitch-in' red, white and blue livery! Which is a very nice rendering of the original Interceptor's color scheme.

I do wish Honda would uncork the V-4's power w/out resorting to variable valve timing, but the thing will run and hide from the F800 in the twisty, technical stuff per the CW article.

Len
Zeit Geist R1200ST