are you tired of the whining?

[MOTOR31]

I'm sexier.

To which species?

 

[knary]

To which species?

Mine

As to which that is, I'll leave that to you to sort out.

 

[deilenberger]

Don,

It comes down to your premise being that a person acts differently when their name is known. I disagree. Having a name out in the open does not moderate it.

Mike, since it appears you're at least as stubborn as I am - we'll have to agree to disagree. I have a forum I run that proves it works to me.

The insistence that I give my name to you is only a tool to try and change a person by virtue of intimidation, whether you want to admit it or not.

Sorry. It's not. It's an attempt to keep "human" in a non-human environment (which you state is hard to do in a text medium) But believe what you want. I won't change your mind, and won't try.

Oh and I'm glad you caught the sarcasm I put in the previous post. I was worried I was too subtle there given the lack of "body language" and vocal cues in a text message for full communications purposes.

Right. Same here. See'ya..

 

[kbasa]

You should go. It's nice. I remember sitting on the beach drinking adult beverages, watching beautiful young Hawaiin ladies do the hula.

I've got two more years until I can actually start traveling again. Hawaii's on the list, as is Germany, Italy and Alaska.

Not to mention returning to the ToTR in Paonia.

 

[redclfco]

hide behind whaaat?

Come on guys...

Some of us use screen names because it's fun. Period. I my self use my name "Dale" and my screen name "Red" depending on the sincerity of the post. Somebody gets mowed down by a cage and I am responding? I use a name. Somebody laughing at a joke and I want to join? It’s red!

Are you guys for real? This is supposed to be fun, NOT a job, NOT a confrontation to get mad, but FUN! Who gives a flying flip what you call you’re self? Call yourself “bean pole", its ok with me!

I use this forum as stress relief, as a community around a virtual campfire, as a huge knowledge center where I learn so much about people, bikes and how to be polite (not always by good example) .

So all of you with the opinion (that’s right opinion) that we use our screen name to intimidate, or to act less like a grown up person by hiding are way off base; for me anyway that’s dead wrong, and quit yer gol durn generalizing!

BTW redclfco is an ol acronym for "red cliff colorado" my old home, my old business, and good times and good memories NOT to hide, that’s just pure bunk! My house was located just below some red sandstone cliffs, that’s where I rock and rolled for many, many years.

Yours true, have a great rest of your day, adios!


Dale aka Red

 

[RandallIsland]

Not to mention returning to the ToTR in Paonia.

What's that?

 

[knary]

What's that?

Top of the Rockies.

 

[Bud]

Come on guys...

Some of us use screen names because it's fun. Period. I my self use my name "Dale" and my screen name "Red" depending on the sincerity of the post. Somebody gets mowed down by a cage and I am responding? I use a name. Somebody laughing at a joke and I want to join? ItÔÇÖs red!

Are you guys for real? This is supposed to be fun, NOT a job, NOT a confrontation to get mad, but FUN! Who gives a flying flip what you call youÔÇÖre self? Call yourself ÔÇ£bean pole", its ok with me!

I use this forum as stress relief, as a community around a virtual campfire, as a huge knowledge center where I learn so much about people, bikes and how to be polite (not always by good example) .

So all of you with the opinion (thatÔÇÖs right opinion) that we use our screen name to intimidate, or to act less like a grown up person by hiding are way off base; for me anyway thatÔÇÖs dead wrong, and quit yer gol durn generalizing!

BTW redclfco is an ol acronym for "red cliff colorado" my old home, my old business, and good times and good memories NOT to hide, thatÔÇÖs just pure bunk! My house was located just below some red sandstone cliffs, thatÔÇÖs where I rock and rolled for many, many years.

Yours true, have a great rest of your day, adios!


Dale aka Red

Red,

You got a heck of a lot of nerve to tell me to have fun. I won't let anybody tell me what to do. Oh, wait a minute, I forgot where I was ...................

Since I can not ride, why don't you double up on mileage the next few weeks so the world will be back in balance?

 

[oldhway]

Come on guys...

Some of us use screen names because it's fun. Period. I my self use my name "Dale" and my screen name "Red" depending on the sincerity of the post. Somebody gets mowed down by a cage and I am responding? I use a name. Somebody laughing at a joke and I want to join? ItÔÇÖs red!

Are you guys for real? This is supposed to be fun, NOT a job, NOT a confrontation to get mad, but FUN! Who gives a flying flip what you call youÔÇÖre self? Call yourself ÔÇ£bean pole", its ok with me!

I use this forum as stress relief, as a community around a virtual campfire, as a huge knowledge center where I learn so much about people, bikes and how to be polite (not always by good example) .

So all of you with the opinion (thatÔÇÖs right opinion) that we use our screen name to intimidate, or to act less like a grown up person by hiding are way off base; for me anyway thatÔÇÖs dead wrong, and quit yer gol durn generalizing!

BTW redclfco is an ol acronym for "red cliff colorado" my old home, my old business, and good times and good memories NOT to hide, thatÔÇÖs just pure bunk! My house was located just below some red sandstone cliffs, thatÔÇÖs where I rock and rolled for many, many years.

Yours true, have a great rest of your day, adios!


Dale aka Red

Dale aka Red, you are one smart dude, you know? Well said!

 

[visian]

Using real names

It's an attempt to keep "human" in a non-human environment...

I use this forum as stress relief, as a community around a virtual campfire, as a huge knowledge center where I learn so much about people, bikes and how to be polite (not always by good example)

So all of you with the opinion (that’s right opinion) that we use our screen name to intimidate, or to act less like a grown up person by hiding are way off base; for me anyway that’s dead wrong, and quit yer gol durn generalizing!

well, there are the two sides of the issue right there.

from what i've learned over 15 years or so of on-line community involvement, my gut tells me to let people do what they want to do.

using a pseudo-name or your real name is a personal decision.

the moderation response to behavior needs to be the same whichever. i think the community norms as a whole have a greater effect on behaviorcompared to using real names.

what i personally have observed is that people who use their real names tend to have greater credibility within the group as a whole.

but this is not a hard and fast rule.

the thing that bothers me the most - as i go around the different forums - is seeing posts by all the excellent people who *used* to post here, but no longer do.

ian

 

[oldhway]

well, there are the two sides of the issue right there.

from what i've learned over 15 years or so of on-line community involvement, my gut tells me to let people do what they want to do.

using a pseudo-name or your real name is a personal decision.

the moderation response to behavior needs to be the same whichever. i think the community norms as a whole have a greater effect on behaviorcompared to using real names.

what i personally have observed is that people who use their real names tend to have greater credibility within the group as a whole.

but this is not a hard and fast rule.

the thing that bothers me the most - as i go around the different forums - is seeing posts by all the excellent people who *used* to post here, but no longer do.

ian

Ian, question? Those folks who are posting elsewhere and don't post here any more. Why?

The folks I have seen elsewhere, who I used to see here, are on forums that for the most part are less restrictive than we are, yet I think they left because of all the pissing and moaning and particullarly the personal attacks. Correct me if I'm wrong, as I am going on several assumptions based on my own observations and am not as familiar as I believe you are with other forums.

Anyway, my point is that in trying to deal with the issues here on the MOA forum, have we managed to compound the problem rather than alleviate it? This is not a critique of those who have done alot of the leg work here. I think however, that the site is changing and so a change in MOA forum policies may be in order. I have heard that Lee Jones is working on a number of enhancements to this site to help it grow. I am inclined to think that some of those enhancements are to deal with some of the issues discussed here (Lee was the OP on this thread after all). Hopefully some of those changes will be an effort to "mature" this forum. What I mean by that is to help those of us who are just becoming familiar with how forums work to understand the nuance of cyber ettiquette better. As I have mentioned before, it seems like our issues revolve around how people treat one another and not the subject matter discussed.

Ian, do you believe the people who used to post here and have left, have done so because of the subject matter discussed here or because of the way the posters interacted?

Obviously I have an agenda here and a point I'm getting at. If folks are leaving our site due to it's content (or lack thereof) we have to address that. If folks are leaving this site because of the attitudes and behavior of those posting, then that is what we need to address.

I believe it is probably somewaht a combination of the two although I feel behavior is the key.

As you know I have lobbied heavily for a relaxation of the subject restrictions on this site, particularly the restrictions on politics and current events. I have done that for several reasons but the biggest 2 are that 1; I believe that discussing very relevant issues, even though they are not directly related to BMW bikes, allows people to get to know each other better and builds stronger relationships, and 2, even though our common interest is motorcycles (in this case BMW's), we don't live in a vacuum and particullarly in such a histrically important election year, there is much of significant relevance to discuss. Doesn't the ability to do that amongst like minded indivduals broaden this forums appeal?

So my conclusion is that we need to concentrate on personal interaction to improve and grow this forum, not just to attract new participants, but to hopefully bring back some who have left.

Fewer restictions will give less to whine about. Will it eliminate the whining? No way, human nature is what it is. But it will help. And make the existing rules deal with behavior primarily, and the forum will begin to stablize.

Si I agree with your statement to let people do what they want. Not a complete answer but perhaps a big step in the right direction.

 

[kbasa]

Ian, do you believe the people who used to post here and have left, have done so because of the subject matter discussed here or because of the way the posters interacted?

My personal take on it is that there's not a strong enough sense of community here. There's a sense that we're all club members, but we don't meet in realspace often enough to foster any true connections.

That's why I think we need either regional forums or some kind of trip planning forum. It'll put people together and build a mutually understood code of behavior - without changing the way this place is moderated.

I'd like to see the MOA continue to develop more and more events that put members in touch with each other and such a forum(s) would go a long way toward putting that activity directly in the hands of the membership.

 

[redclfco]

That's why I think we need either regional forums or some kind of trip planning forum. It'll put people together and build a mutually understood code of behavior - without changing the way this place is moderated.

I'd like to see the MOA continue to develop more and more events that put members in touch with each other and such a forum(s) would go a long way toward putting that activity directly in the hands of the membership.

Dave ,

Isn't this already been done? Each regional chapter like Wisconsin BMW Club/ Madison Club? Minnesota Club? Are not all these with their various websites serving this purpose? Or are you saying include different regions within the National Forum?

 

[kbasa]

Dave ,

Isn't this already been done? Each regional chapter like Wisconsin BMW Club/ Madison Club? Minnesota Club? Are not all these with their various websites serving this purpose? Or are you saying include different regions within the National Forum?

Local clubs are important, no doubt, and the camaraderie that comes from them is very strong. However, there are many MOA members that don't belong to a club in their region. For example, I don't belong to either of the more local clubs, but I'd still like to get together with some of the locals I've met through this forum or some of the mailing lists I'm on.

There's not really a mechanism to encourage or facilitate that, to my opinion.

 

[MOTOR31]

Kbasa,

I have to disagree partially with you about the sense of community angle but only in the meeting in "real space" to use a term. I am on another board and have been for several years. It's a carry over from another site that no longer exists but is related in the genre.

There are several of us on the board who have been "talking" (and arguing quite vehemently at times as well) for more than a decade. For 5 of us I know it goes back 15 years. While some of us have met, the vast majority only know each other by the net conversations and debates we have had. Since I travel now I have taken the time to drive hundreds of miles just to meet some of them. A couple of them I consider to be very good friends yet it took almost 10 years to meet. We also tend to refer to each other more by the handle than name and our wives use the handles and names when referring to others (not their husbands although some other kind of names crop up in there too. ) in the group. The variety of folks there is vast from still in primary school to several who have advanced degrees and are published in their field.

There is a strong cadre, if you will, of folks who run a spectrum of society yet still "talk" online all the time. There is less of a draw to bring them together than there is in this club but they are there all the time. It is a bit more free wheeling there but not significantly though. The conversations are less focused on a single track and that allows greater variety of discussion, even politics AND religion. Things are not "touchy feely polite and moderation is minimal. Complaints about a poster must be more than mere opinions and and show a clear violation of the rules. While language is rigidly enforced by a forum tool, attempts to circumvent the language filter are dealt with quickly and if they persist the poster finds himself smacked with a ban stick. It's a permanent ban and if you try to come back the IP is traced and banned again. The forum members take delight in finding ban returnees and getting them dropped again.

I really don't have the words here to really express it darnit but the other board seems a more mature place than here. Here seems like a schoolyard with various folks running to tattle, justifiably or not, to the local bully to do "something". It just doesn't seem "grown up" even though there are no young folks (10 and up) here like there is on the other board. Again it's not being expressed clearly but I'm having a hard time describing the situation.

There are folks with diametrically opposed viewpoints (like Don and I about the name issue) but like Don did, (and I agree with him) we can agree to disagree. Some things will never have a definitive resolution one way or another due to differing life experiences.

I have hopes for this board but unless it's taken seriously as a tool by the club administration and the members learn to "play responsibly" in discussion without a "nanny" constantly fussing because of "tattling over offended feelings" I doubt it will really evolve or mature like it could. No one has a right to never be offended just by an idea any more than one has a right to offend by intent (ie. direct defamation). It doesn't mean there can be no passion here, just that is must balanced with reasoned discourse rather than simple whines to the "nannies".

Again I know I'm not being as eloquent as this topic deserves but I felt I needed to respond (rant?) to your point in the post. Face to face is not necessary to form a bond with folks.

 

[88bmwjeff]

That's why I think we need either regional forums or some kind of trip planning forum. It'll put people together and build a mutually understood code of behavior - without changing the way this place is moderated.

I'd like to see the MOA continue to develop more and more events that put members in touch with each other and such a forum(s) would go a long way toward putting that activity directly in the hands of the membership.

I would like to see more regional events/get togethers. The regional forums would at least concentrate the events closest to me.

Nothing against the folks on the east coast, but I don't see myself riding there anytime soon.

 

[visian]

Ian, do you believe the people who used to post here and have left, have done so because of the subject matter discussed here or because of the way the posters interacted?

both, neither?

probably just too many rules (along with the inevitable reaction) as well as not enough riding and socialization.

that, and unempowered moderators.

ian

 

[R100RS]

I have built what I consider pretty good relationships with people on other forums without ever having met in person. Sure, meeting in person helps, but it isn't required.

This is the LEAST civil forum that I am a member of and actively participate in. I don't know why it is that way, but it is.

 

[WildBlue]

I have built what I consider pretty good relationships with people on other forums without ever having met in person. Sure, meeting in person helps, but it isn't required.

This is the LEAST civil forum that I am a member of and actively participate in. I don't know why it is that way, but it is.

My guess would be selective enforcement of policy.

 

[Sue]

I miss Hodag.