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97 R1100R Weird Starting Problem

holzenbeindived

New member
Greetings!

This is my first post on these forums (which I'm afraid might be somewhat longwinded), although I have gleaned much useful information over the past several years searching the threads. A big thank you to you all for creating such a fantastic tool and sharing your knowledge and experience!

I have a 97 R1100R with 80K miles. This bike is my first foray into the world of Bavarian boxers, having ridden British twins for most of my riding life. I purchased the bike about 3 years ago and have put on maybe 15K mostly trouble free miles since. I live in northern NM and mostly ride between 5K and 7.5K ft, in mostly dry and dusty conditions. There is one gas station locally with ethanol free gas which I use almost exclusively.

Last year the bike started surging badly and I trawled these forums for ideas. I think I may have "solved" the surging (rewired Hall sensor, adjusted techlusion, etc) and when the bike starts she runs beautifully. Which brings me to my current problem, which I have not found a parallel for while trawling the forums: In short my bike will start, then stumble in idle for about 15 seconds then die (If i blip the throttle at all the bike cuts out immediately). I then start the bike again and it fires up and does the same thing. I can carry on doing this until the battery dies, or until it mysteriously fires up and idles at 1150rpm and runs fine. It will then start as it should until it cools down, at which point the dance starts all over again.

But recently I have found that if I start the bike then disconnect the TPS and let it stumble for two or three minutes until it eventually cuts out, then reconnect the TPS, the bike will start up just fine. This makes me think that the bike will run as it should once the O2 sensor warms up and therefore the problem is related to how the fuel air mix is delivered prior to the O2 sensor kicking in (am I way off base on this?). But I'm really unsure about how information is fed to the Motronic prior to the O2 sensor warming up. Any ideas, because I'm stumped?

FYI, things I've done so far to troubleshoot: new fuel filter and internal tubes (pump seems strong), cleaned tank, checked vents are clear (no charcoal canister), removed and cleaned throttle bodies, balanced TBs numerous times (throttle cables properly seated), adjusted valves a number of times (although they have always been in spec), new air filter, new plugs (plugs are looking black and wet, which they never did before), in addition to the previous work on HES and Techlusion.

Thank you in advance for any ideas about how I should proceed, and apologies for the length of this post!
 
My first thoughts were: and you started at the basics.

My next thought, you are too rich. Ignore the O2 sensor. It does nothing until engine temp comes up.

Look at fuel pressure. You could have a pinched return line or the pressure relief is stuck. The stumble starting and wet plugs are my clues.
 
Your Techlusion may be part of the problem since it adds fuel (and disables Closed Loop). I’d remove it, connect the O2 up normally, disconnect the battery for 10 minutes to reset learned values in the Motronic, and then start debugging. Then ceck your fuel pressure as suggested by DY.
 
My first thoughts were: and you started at the basics.

My next thought, you are too rich. Ignore the O2 sensor. It does nothing until engine temp comes up.

Look at fuel pressure. You could have a pinched return line or the pressure relief is stuck. The stumble starting and wet plugs are my clues.

Thanks for the response! I will check return line and pressure relief valve as you suggest. I guess where I need help conceptually is understanding how fuel/air mixture is controlled prior to the O2 sensor taking over (this is perhaps because most of my experience is with carbureted twins and simple two-strokes and so ECUs and the plethora of sensors and their functions is a little confusing for me).
 
Your Techlusion may be part of the problem since it adds fuel (and disables Closed Loop). I’d remove it, connect the O2 up normally, disconnect the battery for 10 minutes to reset learned values in the Motronic, and then start debugging. Then ceck your fuel pressure as suggested by DY.

Thank you for your suggestion! Last year, when trying to address the surging issue, and based on suggestions in this forum, I did disable the techlusion and removed the CCP and the bike ran wonderfully for a while with zero surging... until one day it wouldn't start. I kinda figured I'd messed something up and returned the bike to its previous configuration. My guess is you are suggesting something different and returning the bike to a more stock configuration.
 
You can also go so far as a spreadsheet and coding plugs to determine the cause of your problem.

I have a Techlusion on my bike and I have messed with it enough to know it has no effect on starting or cold engine until the O2 warms up and the engine is warm.

Start simple.

Fuel Pressure

TPS voltage at start: if the TPS sees throttle, while trying to start, it will also flood the engine.

I don't know if the Moronic 2.2 has Clear Flood ability, but your family car does. Key off, full throttle, key on, start. Should grumble, rattle and groan and quit. Try starting again and see what happens.
 
You can also go so far as a spreadsheet and coding plugs to determine the cause of your problem.

I have a Techlusion on my bike and I have messed with it enough to know it has no effect on starting or cold engine until the O2 warms up and the engine is warm.

Start simple.

Fuel Pressure

TPS voltage at start: if the TPS sees throttle, while trying to start, it will also flood the engine.

I don't know if the Moronic 2.2 has Clear Flood ability, but your family car does. Key off, full throttle, key on, start. Should grumble, rattle and groan and quit. Try starting again and see what happens.

Thanks again. I will work through all the suggested diagnostics. May take me some time due to work and family, but it promises to be an interesting learning opportunity! I will update presently...
 
Ok... this is a little embarrassing...:blush the other day while getting ready to run a fuel pressure test, I started the bike and went through the usual routine. As usual she stumbled along in idle. Anyway, while figuring out how I was going to set up the pressure gauge, I absentmindedly wiggled and jiggled the hard plastic fuel lines where they enter the bike to the regulator. Lo-and-behold the bike fired up and began to idle perfectly. Upon further inspection I saw that the grommet holding the lines was severely degraded and the lines were just flopping about. Made a grommet from zip ties and ever since she seems to be running great (fuel pressure where it should be by the way).

Anyway, I'm wondering if this scenario is more indicative of a kinked fuel line or a sticking regulator?

Thanks for all your comments. The lesson I have learned: start with the most basic stuff first!:banghead
 
There is certainly nothing to be embarrassed about by starting simple and working your way forward.

The time to be embarrassed is when you start at the most complicated and expensive solution and it doesn't work while you have skipped the 90 other simple solutions.

I still have to ask every mechanic that works for me if they started with grounds and fuses.
 
There is certainly nothing to be embarrassed about by starting simple and working your way forward.

The time to be embarrassed is when you start at the most complicated and expensive solution and it doesn't work while you have skipped the 90 other simple solutions.

I still have to ask every mechanic that works for me if they started with grounds and fuses.

You'll have to worry when your mechanic tells you the problem is fixed
It was just a blown fuse
I swapped out the 5 amp with a 30 amp
 
You'll have to worry when your mechanic tells you the problem is fixed
It was just a blown fuse
I swapped out the 5 amp with a 30 amp

Why not just use some tin foil? Cheaper than those expensive fuses (or finding the reason the fuse is blowing).
 
Why not just use some tin foil? Cheaper than those expensive fuses (or finding the reason the fuse is blowing).

Well, if you do that you can then identify the ailing part(s) simply by tracing the burned wiring. Making the cure worse than the disease, but I digress.:)
 
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