'94 RS Neutral Sensor acting up

[tibork]

Currently my neutral light won't come on for several minutes not allowing to start the bike. This morning I turned the ignition on for 3 minutes and nothing. Unfortunately I am dog sitting at a relative's place for the weekend so not home to do full investigation, however I do have a good tool set. Is there a way to override the sensor (connect lines anywhere?) in case it won't come on at all when I have to head home; at home of course I do more investigation with the manual and work on it. Thank you!

Bike: 1994 RS

 

[20774]

Sort of out of my league, but similar things can happen on an Airhead. With no neutral light, I can't start the bike...say when the bike isn't in gear. But typically I can pull in the clutch lever and the bike can be started. Then I would need to investigate if I can shift gears or find neutral even though the light isn't working.

As for finding the issue with the light, I would investigate where the wiring harness for the neutral light plugs into the bike to ensure that the specific connection for the neutral light is a good connection.

 

[tibork]

Thanks 20774, I also just found a post on pulling the clutch to start it. I went outside, tried it, didn't work, HOWEVER then also just slightly tapped on the shifter at the same time and the light came on and now the light does come on right away when I turn the ignition. Now or course I tried shifting and rocking the bike back and forth before without pulling the clutch and didn't work so maybe pulling the clutch is the trick at this point. I will try this again tomorrow if I don't get the light again. I also just read that there is a 'brown/black wire' on the sensor that can be grounded to bypass it, if nothing, I'll try that at least to start it. Thanks again for the response.

If anyone else has any more tricks please feel free to share it. Thank you!

 

[Omega Man]

Try moving the shifter from first to second and back rather rapidly a dozen or so times. Try not to force anything and you may have to use the clutch to help and move the bike back and forth to make the actual gear change.
This can quite possibly limber up the neutral safety switch.

OM

 

[20774]

I also just found a post on pulling the clutch to start it. I went outside, tried it, didn't work,

Well, sounds like you may have an idea of where the issue is. If pulling the hand lever in didn't work, then it might be that the micro switch at the handlebar that senses when the clutch lever is pulled might not be working either.

 

[pauls1150]

Sounds like either the switch's wiper is worn, or there an oil leak at the seal just inboard from the switch.
Tedious and difficult to reach, but not impossible; do the seal replacement in any case.

Here are a couple of .jpg pics that show the connection of the switch's internals; I forget if they came from GSAddict, AKBeemer, or somebody else, sorry...

From the sketched schematic, it "may" be possible to fool the bike into starting by jumpering the gray and brown wires; this would also keep the Neutral light on all the time...

 

[pglaves]

First issue. The neutral switches on those bikes are notorious for being wonky. A little gear oil seeps into the switch causing poor switch contact. The short term fix is sometimes to switch in and out of neutral enough times to wipe some of the oil off the contacts. The only cure is a new switch.

Second issue. One of two conditions is necessary in order to start the bike: 1) transmission in neutral; or, 2) The clutch lever pulled.

So since the bike will not crank/start when the clutch is pulled there is a defect in the clutch switch. That model has a screw-in switch up at the clutch lever. It is difficult to get a wrench on that switch but it is easy with a deep socket once the wire is cut right near the switch. Screwing in the new switch by hand is easy, and hand tight is sufficient because the wire lead to the new switch keeps the switch from unscrewing.

 

[tibork]

Here is another question I have, can I push start the bike with no neutral light on? Is it just the starter that won't engage with the indicator off? I have a descending driveway here, if the bike can be started rolling down in gear that would also be an option - had to do this a few times with my old 600 cc Yamaha but that bike was light enough to push, jump on it then pop the clutch. Anyone know the answer to that?

Thanks for all the responses, I will follow up on these for sure and thanks for the diagrams too PaulS!

 

[pauls1150]

The fuel pump relay and starter relay are part of that overall starting circuit, and that circuit sends a required logic state to the bike's computer... but I don't know the answer to that question.

 

[tibork]

If I don't get the light tomorrow when I'm leaving I will try it.

 

[m_stock10506]

Here is another question I have, can I push start the bike with no neutral light on? Is it just the starter that won't engage with the indicator off? I have a descending driveway here, if the bike can be started rolling down in gear that would also be an option - had to do this a few times with my old 600 cc Yamaha but that bike was light enough to push, jump on it then pop the clutch. Anyone know the answer to that?

Thanks for all the responses, I will follow up on these for sure and thanks for the diagrams too PaulS!

Paul gave you the correct and complete answer. The lazy neutral switch will sometimes work and sometimes not. Replace the in-op clutch switch, much easier, and you can start with or without the light.

As for push starting, yes, it’s possible. Much more likely to be successful if the bike is already warm. Make sure that you’re in second or third gear, not first, and ignition is on. This is a fairly big bike. If you aren’t really steady and in control, you can quickly go over to the side when you release the clutch lever, or if it fails to start. Fix the clutch switch.

 

[tibork]

As for push starting, yes, it’s possible. Much more likely to be successful if the bike is already warm. Make sure that you’re in second or third gear, not first, and ignition is on. This is a fairly big bike. If you aren’t really steady and in control, you can quickly go over to the side when you release the clutch lever, or if it fails to start. Fix the clutch switch.

Thank you, again, I am not home at the time and when I get home I'll get on these, I was just looking for a one time solution to get home. Also thank you for the advice on push starting, fortunately have plenty of experience from a smaller Yamaha bike which had it's fair shares of crank case fumes leaking into the starter motor (a flaw on these bikes) and required the disassembly and cleaning out of the starter motor. I would not even attempt to push start this heavy bike on a flat surface but have the advantage right now of a downhill driveway, so if it can be started with no neutral light on, I'll give it a try. Just need to get home tomorrow.

 

[gsaddict]

The lazy neutral light is a common issue on 1100 5 speed transmissions.
The neutral light is activated by a microswitch under the RID switch.
It is a sealed switch and not serviceable. I have tried to improve operation with no long term success.

The 1150 6 speeds have all functions incorporated into the RID switch

 

[gsaddict]

Sounds like either the switch's wiper is worn, or there an oil leak at the seal just inboard from the switch.
Tedious and difficult to reach, but not impossible; do the seal replacement in any case.

Here are a couple of .jpg pics that show the connection of the switch's internals; I forget if they came from GSAddict, AKBeemer, or somebody else, sorry...

From the sketched schematic, it "may" be possible to fool the bike into starting by jumpering the gray and brown wires; this would also keep the Neutral light on all the time...

View attachment 92158

View attachment 92159

The lower image is mine.

 

[MCMXCIVRS]

First issue. The neutral switches on those bikes are notorious for being wonky. A little gear oil seeps into the switch causing poor switch contact. The short term fix is sometimes to switch in and out of neutral enough times to wipe some of the oil off the contacts. The only cure is a new switch.

Second issue. One of two conditions is necessary in order to start the bike: 1) transmission in neutral; or, 2) The clutch lever pulled.

So since the bike will not crank/start when the clutch is pulled there is a defect in the clutch switch. That model has a screw-in switch up at the clutch lever. It is difficult to get a wrench on that switch but it is easy with a deep socket once the wire is cut right near the switch. Screwing in the new switch by hand is easy, and hand tight is sufficient because the wire lead to the new switch keeps the switch from unscrewing.

One other condition with the 94 model year is that the sidestand must be up for the bike to start/run. Later years that changed allowing them to start and run as long as it was in neutral and some owners (myself included) rewired the early models to function that way.

 

[pglaves]

One other condition with the 94 model year is that the sidestand must be up for the bike to start/run. Later years that changed allowing them to start and run as long as it was in neutral and some owners (myself included) rewired the early models to function that way.

Thanks Ed. I forgot that little detail. So make it three conditions to start. Neutral or clutch in and sidestand up. That little sidestand feature has always aggravated me.

 

[m_stock10506]

One other condition with the 94 model year is that the sidestand must be up for the bike to start/run. Later years that changed allowing them to start and run as long as it was in neutral and some owners (myself included) rewired the early models to function that way.

That is not a '94 model year only design. I ride a 2001 1100RT and the side stand switch is wired in with the kill switch. The authority bikes had the wiring modification to run in neutral with the stand down. The 1150 models had this incorporated into the civillian bikes (I think, that's the case since I don't own an 1150).

 

[ksdcr]

One other condition with the 94 model year is that the sidestand must be up for the bike to start/run. Later years that changed allowing them to start and run as long as it was in neutral and some owners (myself included) rewired the early models to function that way.

Interesting. I think that my 2000 R1100 RS, will not start with the side stand down, irregardless of whether the clutch lever is pulled.

 

[pglaves]

Yes. The 1100 bikes had this "feature" (or defect) which was changed with the 1150 bikes, notwithstanding the earlier remedy on the authority RTs.

 

[gsaddict]

That is not a '94 model year only design. I ride a 2001 1100RT and the side stand switch is wired in with the kill switch. The authority bikes had the wiring modification to run in neutral with the stand down. The 1150 models had this incorporated into the civillian bikes (I think, that's the case since I don't own an 1150).

Correct. All 1150s will run in neutral with the side stand down.
1100S as well.