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Valve adjustments--why?

milo said:
Can you imagine telling the potential buyer of a Honda Accord or basic 3 series BMW that "you'll need do have the valves adjusted every 10-16,000 miles at a cost of $500?"
Click to expand...

Lamborghini clutch plate replacement recommended every 10-15K miles, cost: $15,000

Bugatti Veyron recommended oil change intervals: 5-7K miles, cost: $21,000

I would take the valve adjustment for $500 in a 3 series every 10-15K if there was one. ... :laugh
 
tibork said:
Lamborghini clutch plate replacement recommended every 10-15K miles, cost: $15,000

Bugatti Veyron recommended oil change intervals: 5-7K miles, cost: $21,000

I would take the valve adjustment for $500 in a 3 series every 10-15K if there was one. ... :laugh
Click to expand...

And if BMW follows those leads, dealing with a smaller and smaller segment of well-heeled buyers who simply don’t care about maintenance costs and service info availability, then I’d expect that down the road we’d see BMW dealers becoming as scarce as Lambo and Bugatti dealers. BMW motorcycles, too, for that matter. :(

Best,
DeVern
 
GTRider said:
And if BMW follows those leads, dealing with a smaller and smaller segment of well-heeled buyers who simply don’t care about maintenance costs and service info availability, then I’d expect that down the road we’d see BMW dealers becoming as scarce as Lambo and Bugatti dealers. BMW motorcycles, too, for that matter. :(

Best,
DeVern
Click to expand...
What do you mean "if"? I thought that that was the case!

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
 
Engineers that are not riders

I imagine some of this can be traced back to engineering design decisions being made by those that don't ride or don't ride very much. Absolutely decisions being made my those that don't work on their own bikes. One of the questions for magazine interviews with BMW executives should be "what types bike maintenance have you performed in the past on what model motorcycle?". Probably not as much a BMW thing as much as a sign of the times.


Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449
 
I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations. :scratch
OM
 
Omega Man said:
I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations. :scratch
OM
Click to expand...

To get to the powered outlets in the cowl of the 310GS to hook up accessories there are 34 screws. Only 34:). They could have engineered easy removal of the headlight from the front but didn't from what I can figure out. Some have said you can get the headlight out from the front but it don't seem to be possible or practical to me. Only 34:)



Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449
 
wkoppa said:
To get to the powered outlets in the cowl of the 310GS to hook up accessories there are 34 screws. Only 34:). They could have engineered easy removal of the headlight from the front but didn't from what I can figure out. Some have said you can get the headlight out from the front but it don't seem to be possible or practical to me. Only 34:)



Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449
Click to expand...

At least the plastic tabs aren’t snapping off!
OM
 
Omega Man said:
I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations. :scratch
OM
Click to expand...

I've always felt this. Also if they would be required to ride the bikes and clean them they might start putting real fenders on again.
 
Omega Man said:
I was thinking that after the design and engineering, the designers and engineers should be required to work on their creations. :scratch
OM
Click to expand...

Don't forget the bean counters. Often things are redesigned and/or re-engineered because of costs. And this is sometimes-often (heck I don't know) without concern of longevity, maintenance, etc.
 
RadioFlyer said:
What do you mean "if"? I thought that that was the case!

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

We've owned at least 8 BMW cars ranging from a 1991 525 to a couple of 2014 3 series cars. In my experience, the routine maintenance has become less expensive. The older cars had minor and major servicing intervals. The minor servicing was about $250 and the major closer to $800. I don't remember the intervals. Now the cars ask for oil changes, coolant changes, and brake fluid changes etc. based on mileage and how the car is driven. None of the BMWs approached the routine maintenance costs for my 93 Accord which wanted valve adjustments at ridiculously short intervals. The Accord also trashed its $2000 exhaust system in about two years from new. None of the BMWs ever had an exhaust replaced and we kept most of them until they were over ten years old.
 
Until I finally sold it a year ago, I had a 1981 VW Vanagon (Transporter) with air cooled boxer four cylinder (Type IV) which I parked on circular drive that was not level right to left. It had VW's first attempt at hydraulic lifters in its traditional engine. It often occurred when it had sat for a period of time that upon startup massive lifter knock occurred, sometimes lasting up to 15 minutes. It was painful but I don't think there was ever actual damage.

Given parking motorcycles on sidestand, this may have been likely as well.

On the other hand, today a 2001 Porsche Boxster with watercooled six cylinder boxer engine with hydraulic lifters is now regularly parked in the same location and it exhibits little problem. It does always start with extra revs and a bit of clatter, but it's over in a second. It's OHC like Oilheads and newer and has great lengths of cam chains to be tensioned as well.
 
I have a friend that rides a 50,000 mile FJR like a scalded dog. With the exception of oil changes, the engine has never been touched. Same plugs, same coolant, same everything since it left the factory. I suspect there are thousands of Japanese motorcycles running around that are the same.
 
Yamaha's with shim under bucket set up probably requires the least attention of any of them (short of self adjusting valves). My T700 doesn't even call for them to be checked until 26K. If I keep the bike (which I believe I will) I may have them adjusted to the middle at 30K then not worry with them again, unless they get noisy or hard to start.
 
Low maintenance engine designs certainly exist. Ford’s 2.0 Duratec Focus engine has 500cc cylinders and valve clearance checks are recommended every 100,000 miles. Honda’s 1500 GoldWing has 250cc cylinders and hydraulic lifters. Both engines seem to run forever.

However, a typical BMW motorcycle dealership relies on service and parts for most of their profit. They can not keep the doors open just by selling new bikes. Do a Google search for “Service Absorption Ratio” to understand why parts and service are so expensive and yet essential for dealer profitability.
 
wkoppa said:
To get to the powered outlets in the cowl of the 310GS to hook up accessories there are 34 screws. Only 34:). They could have engineered easy removal of the headlight from the front but didn't from what I can figure out. Some have said you can get the headlight out from the front but it don't seem to be possible or practical to me. Only 34:)



Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449
Click to expand...

86 Monte Carlo SS headlight replace, remove nose, 114 fasteners. Winner, or looser, depending

Rod
 
If anyone wants a head-scratcher, open the hood on a Ford diesel pickup truck. I swear they put everything in a blender, liquified the components, poured them into the engine compartment, troweled it off and slammed the hood.
Oh, and some of those trucks require removal of the cab from the frame for some services.
Part of the “inconvenience package”.
OM
 
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