A grim day in NH

scqtt said:

Old man yells at cloud.

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Don't piss off Old Guys(I'll be 64 next week and 65 is the new 50), we don't GAF and will mess up your day.

BlueWaterCooled said:

If someone is getting passed on the right, then they should take that as a sign that they shouldn't be in the left lane. If there is enough space on the right for someone to pass them, there is enough space for them to move over until they come up on the next person they want to pass. Whether they are going at the speed limit, over it, or twice it is irrelevant. Staying in the left lane to pass a number of cars is only valid if: 1) there is no space to move to the right between passes, or 2) there is no one behind me in the left lane. Anytime someone comes into my rear view mirror behind me in the left lane, it is time to get out that lane as a fast as safely possible.

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as I explained earlier the right lane is much more dangerous because of vehicles slowing to exit the highway and cars and large trucks entering the highway causing slowdowns and rear end collisions. No way am I riding in the right lane. Traded in my 2012 Elantra and bought a RAV4 in November 2017 and 3 weeks later got rear ended on RT.2 on the way to work in the LEFT lane because of a truck entering the highway which caused a bottleneck. If I was in my Elantra I would have been injured, on my Beemer I'm dead. Drivers around here don't GAF, it's all about them.

"PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — The last of three motorcycle riders hospitalized following a crash that killed seven people has left a hospital with an escort of his fellow riders.

WMTW-TV reports that 45-year-old Josh Morin, of Dalton, Massachusetts, was taken Thursday by ambulance to a rehabilitation hospital in Boston.

As a show of support, riders from the Maine chapter of the Jarheads Motorcycle Club provided an escort. Morin is a member of the club.

Morin was flown to Maine Medical Center in Portland the night of the June 21 crash in Randolph, New Hampshire.

The driver of a pickup truck accused of causing the pileup has been charged with negligent homicide.

Morin is suing the truck driver and the company the driver worked for."

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scqtt said:

Old man yells at cloud.

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I don't yell at clouds, they don't threaten me.

Many multi-lane roads in Texas are signed - consistent with State law - "Left Lane for Passing Only. If there is room to pull back right you are expected to do so in the minds of the Troopers and Deputies. The penalty for sailing along in the left lane while not actively passing is $144 plus court costs. DMHIK

rwl1955 said:

I'm not "clogging" up the lane, I'm leaving minimum 2 cars lengths between me and the vehicle in front of me at 70-80mph.

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That is so wrong. You need a minimum of two seconds between you and the car ahead of you. Two car lengths means you are tailgating ferociously. Crazy.

Feel free to check my math: I get 117 ft/sec as the equivalent to 80 mph. Two seconds would then be 234 feet. That's one hell of a lot longer than two car lengths.

Highway Message Sign

I think I was on my way back from Arkansas, the highway sign said:

Camp in the Ozarks - Not the left hand lane.

Wayne Koppa
Grayling, MI
#71,449

rwl1955 said:

I'm not "clogging" up the lane, I'm leaving minimum 2 cars lengths between me and the vehicle in front of me at 70-80mph. I guess you didn't read my post, the speed limit is 55mph and I'm driving the same speed as every other driver in the left lane usually 70-80mph. So you advocate tailgating and driving to endanger?

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I don't advocate tailgating.

If there is room in the right lane and I come up behind someone in the left lane, I will pass them on the right. It doesn't matter what speed they are going. If they are going slower than I want to go and they are in the left lane, I have no choice but to pass on the right. As I said earlier, when I get passed on the right, I take it as a sign that I am in the wrong lane.

When I took driver's education 60 years ago we were taught to stay back one car length for every ten miles per hour. So at 70 mph that would be seven car lengths - say 140 feet. Even that is not quite 2 seconds. So this two or three car lengths is pure folly, but we see it every day. And following too close causes far more accidents than speeding. With dashcam and a freeway equivalent of red-light cams this is now as easy to prove as speeding is with radar, so my opinion is the LEOs need to get to work on this.

A question first, please: definition of "LEO".

The on scene images of this horrible event are pretty conclusive that most of the victims were riding in a fairly tight group and never had time to react. The use/non-use of helmets and the impaired/non-impaired condition of the truck driver are all valid points of analysis, but I truly believe that proper rider spacing would have given everyone after the lead bike at least a chance.

I have always approached group riding with a great deal of reticence.... a group of four is about my limit.

Years ago I rode extensively in West Virginia where sight lines are short and the roads tight. Makes me appreciate riding in Central/West Texas all that much more. An exception to that is the Texas Hill Country around Utopia (where I lived for 20+ years). Texas 335, 336, and 337 (The Twisted Sisters) attract riders from all over the state, and nation, to ride roads that are challenging at best and treacherous always. Lots of off camber varying radius turns with mountains on one side, sheer drop-offs on the other, and always a good chance of loose rock on the road not to mention suicidal deer. The stretch of TX 337 between Vanderpool and Leakey is so bad there is a sign posted the the head of the pass just south of Vanderpool detailing the current motorcycle fatality count on that section. I have good friends associated with the Utopia EMS, several of them mc riders, and they tell me that almost all the fatalities are associated with group rides. I only rode Tuesdays through Thursdays.... week-ends were for the pack riders. These are truly some of the finest motorcycling roads to be found anywhere and also some of the most unforgiving. Pack riding is begging disaster.

Meet up in the parking lot.... not the road.

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer.

PGlaves said:

When I took driver's education 60 years ago we were taught to stay back one car length for every ten miles per hour. So at 70 mph that would be seven car lengths - say 140 feet. Even that is not quite 2 seconds. So this two or three car lengths is pure folly, but we see it every day. And following too close causes far more accidents than speeding. With dashcam and a freeway equivalent of red-light cams this is now as easy to prove as speeding is with radar, so my opinion is the LEOs need to get to work on this.

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And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.

AKsuited said:

And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.

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In an era that mixes sub-compact cars and crew-cab pickups with 8ft boxes, identifying a three-second gap vs “car length x number of cars” is probably a more useful metric for beginning drivers.

Best,
DeVern

This is all really academic. Around here leaving 4 vehicle spaces between you and the car in front I just the right distance for 5 to fit in
If there are rules, everyone needs to be on board with the rules.
OM

Omega Man said:

This is all really academic. Around here leaving 4 vehicle spaces between you and the car in front I just the right distance for 5 to fit in
If there are rules, everyone needs to be on board with the rules.
OM

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Or people need to be deterred by proper law enforcement. In the olden days this didn't happen because it devolved into he said - he said. With dash cam this excuse goes out the window. And every rear-end collision ought to result in a citation. That won't of course happen, so the carnage will continue while enforcement continues to target speeding and burned out license plate bulbs.

AKsuited said:

And what is taught these days is "three seconds following distance" rather than two seconds...and more than that in difficult situations like snow or heavy rain.

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2 second minimum is stated, but then a list of caveats is provided, which includes 99% of real world conditions, and a strong suggestion to double the minimum...... ~4-seconds

60 mph = 88 fps. So, in 2 seconds at you travel 176-ft. A good estimate of stopping distance at 60-mph is ~200+ ft. So, in my opinion, a 2 second following distance will not provide the necessary time/distance for an emergency stop.

36654 said:

2 second minimum is stated, but then a list of caveats is provided, which includes 99% of real world conditions, and a strong suggestion to double the minimum...... ~4-seconds

60 mph = 88 fps. So, in 2 seconds at you travel 176-ft. A good estimate of stopping distance at 60-mph is ~200+ ft. So, in my opinion, a 2 second following distance will not provide the necessary time/distance for an emergency stop.

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Basically, I agree with your conclusion. However, your analysis leaves out the fact that the vehicle in front of you cannot stop instantly. So with a 2 second gap between you and the car in front, one will have more than the 176 ft to stop in.

Another issue that I don't see mentioned in this thread: On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.

A weakly related comment: I wish car and truck drivers spent as much time on forums discussing safe driving techniques as motorcyclists do.

BlueWaterCooled said:

... On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.

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The moral to this story is simply: try hard to avoid busy highways especially during rush hour periods. Even if it takes a little longer to get where you need to be find a smarter safer alternate route wherever you can and enjoy the ride. This philosophy when consistently applied can go a long ways to help reduce crash risk. There are times of day when riding on our local freeways (Denver area) can be done safely for sure and there are other times when it feels a lot like Russian Roulette because of the tailgating, jockeying for position, crossing two lanes abruptly so they don't miss their turn off, all while texting, eating a croissant and sipping a latte. I never go on the freeways during those times of day, but I don't have to either so that I'm thankful for.

BlueWaterCooled said:

Another issue that I don't see mentioned in this thread: On busy highways, if you try to leave a gap large enough to be safe, people will continually change lanes to fill the gap. You will find yourself continually dropping back trying to open up a gap, hence traveling slower than the traffic. And that is not safe either.

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See Post #154 and Post #155