What do young riders want?

PGlaves said:

What young riders (and almost everybody else too) want is acceptance. And respect. And understanding. And gentle mentoring. And not to be ridiculed. Or chastised for lack of ATGATT. I judge new riders by what I did as a beginner, not by what I do now.

I remember my first "long" motorcycle trip, two up on an RD250, in 60 degree weather in North Dakota and Manitoba. I certainly wish some compassionate person had told me a denim jeans jacket was not going to be warm enough. Once we got to Winnipeg I couldn't get Voni out of the hot tub, for hours.

I recall arriving under an underpass in a rainstorm in Colorado to find a "kid" (18 or so) in his sweat shirt and sweat pants and his Virago trying to survive the rain as he headed to see his girlfriend in Oregon. Since I was wearing an Aerostich but had an old Dry Rider in the tail cone I gave him the rainsuit, wished him well, and headed on down the road.

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Brought back memories of when I was dating my girlfriend (who became my wife of 40 years and counting). She lived in Lansing, MI and I in Indianapolis. On Friday after work, I would climb on my Honda CB550 with boots, jeans, t-shirt and open faced Bell helmet for the 240 mile ride to Lansing. By the time I hit the Michigan border, it would be dark and very cold so out comes the true piece of safety equipment...my down jacket. Lol.

No judgement here on young riders...just glad to have them sharing my lifetime passion for motorcycles.

I met up with a rider at a gas station. He was riding an early Gold Wing, one of the early stripped models, no fairing. It caught my eye because he had completely restored this old 'Wing, it liked better than new. Anyway we had checked the weather and we were riding into some bad rain so my wife and I were slipping on our rain gear. The 'Wing rider asked us which way we were going and it happened to be the same direction he was going. He asked about rain and I told him it didn't look good. It turned out he did not have any rain gear. I told him he had better lay up and let it pass or run a few blocks over a sporting goods store and buy some rain gear. I don't know what he ended up doing as we took off first, but I don't think he had any concept of what it was like riding in rain on a cooler day.

powwow said:

Brought back memories of when I was dating my girlfriend

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Similar story, similar era. 1978-1981. Honda CB550-4, 1974 model I think. I was going to Mt. Pleasant, MI from UP. Girlfriend dumped me, thank God, in '81.

Brought back memories of when I was dating my girlfriend (who became my wife of 40 years and counting). She lived in Lansing, MI and I in Indianapolis.

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Parallel Universes. Me: Working in Rantoul, Illinois. Her: Bloomington, Indiana. Friday night after work; east bound. Sunday evening; west bound.

lmo1131 said:

Parallel Universes. Me: Working in Rantoul, Illinois. Her: Bloomington, Indiana. Friday night after work; east bound. Sunday evening; west bound.

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Which probably mirrors what many young riders are doing now. And at that age I, too, did not really spend any time with old guys camping in the mud.

Well, seeing as the topic has been derailed......

Me, in Toronto, first day of ownership of 750 Honda... with clubman bars. Hadn't ridden a bike in 5 years but still had a licence. Girlfriend in Ottawa. Late summer. Push off for Ottawa at 6 pm wearing a t-shirt, jean jacket and pants (Canadian tuxedo), open face helmet with ski goggles, running shoes, no gloves. A few hours later, after being hit in the face by a June bug, the temperature has dropped to about 50F, I'm freezing my ass off, and my arms are aching from the unnatural seating position enforced by the clubman bars. That was a quick course in wearing the proper riding gear which I purchased on my return home - one of the few times I learned from an experience. Included a full face helmet in an effort to preserve my stunning good looks.

The few young riders that exist in FL seem to either want cheap speed, an image accessory, or cheap transport. I think the type that rides for deeper “zen” is older in these parts and really most are just midlife weekend badasses on choppers.

brio said:

The few young riders that exist in FL seem to either want cheap speed, an image accessory, or cheap transport. I think the type that rides for deeper “zen” is older in these parts and really most are just midlife weekend badasses on choppers.

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You have inadvertently touched on the "elephant in the room" element to this entire discussion.

I don't advocate that young riders be ignored - to the contrary, I invest thousands of hours every year instructing and building up a passion for motorcycling as I teach BRC's and other MC courses to new riders. However, it hardly pays for me to steer those newbies to a BMW dealership - it's a bike they cannot afford.

The question that should be asked is "What do young riders NOT want?"

The answer is: BMW's. They are expensive to acquire, expensive to maintain and not exactly on the minds of young consumers.

Walk into any BMW dealership and what you don't see is young riders scoping out their first bike. That has nothing to do with the growth or survivability of the MOA. They simply can't afford the brand at that stage of their life.

The majority of this club (minus the predictable war-stories of "I got my first BMW while I was in kindergarten" blah, blah, blah) came to the marquee in our 40's or 50's. There, along with the 30's generation, is your target audience for club growth. GEARS is a great experience, but as someone pointed out, usually populated with member offspring - not really a barometer for the market.

Denial isn't going to get us anywhere.

Here in QC, Canada, the Government seems to want to simply eliminate MCs from the roads by making the cost of riding so high that it discourages people from riding.

(Most people will ride only 5 months/year, May-September)

To obtain a Class 6A, 6B or 6C motorcycle driver's licence, you have to pass a knowledge test, take a course, and pass 2 road tests.

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Which adds up to about $1000 CDN and takes over a year to complete

Then you have the drivers license fee for having the MC category every year - $103 CDN (on top of your regular drivers license)

(People who stop paying for their MC category because they stop riding for some years will have to take an MC course again to get it back)

To this you have to add the cost of registration which includes the Government 'No fault' insurance for physical damage ( No one can be sued in QC for causing physical injuries on the road with a motor vehicle, The Government takes care of that)
Depending on the bike:125 cc or less - $277.17, 126 cc to 400 cc - $478.37, 401 cc and over - $660.46, High accident-risk motorcycles - $1,534.97 (Plus Tax of course)
(The plates themselves are actually $45 the rest is for the insurance.)

After all this, you have to add the cost of the regular insurance for the bike itself and material damage. This varies a lot for each bike ($200 - $600+)

Plus you still have to pay for the bike itself...

Not easily affordable for a young rider

The good news is that even after all that, the number of MCs went up 39% since 2010. From 127,000 to 176,000 in 2016.
It doesn't mean that they are younger riders though....

Dann said:

Here in QC, Canada, the Government seems to want to simply eliminate MCs from the roads by making the cost of riding so high that it discourages people from riding.

(Most people will ride only 5 months/year, May-September)



Which adds up to about $1000 CDN and takes over a year to complete

Then you have the drivers license fee for having the MC category every year - $103 CDN (on top of your regular drivers license)

(People who stop paying for their MC category because they stop riding for some years will have to take an MC course again to get it back)

To this you have to add the cost of registration which includes the Government 'No fault' insurance for physical damage ( No one can be sued in QC for causing physical injuries on the road with a motor vehicle, The Government takes care of that)
Depending on the bike:125 cc or less - $277.17, 126 cc to 400 cc - $478.37, 401 cc and over - $660.46, High accident-risk motorcycles - $1,534.97 (Plus Tax of course)

After all this, you have to add the cost of the regular insurance for the bike itself and material damage. This varies a lot for each bike ($200 - $600+)

Plus you still have to pay for the bike itself...

Not easily affordable for a young rider

The good news is that even after all that, the number of MCs went up 39% since 2010. From 127,000 to 176,000 in 2016.
It doesn't mean that they are younger riders though....

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Holy Crap!

Didn't realize how much better we have it here in the states!

Heard the same story about Canada fees/whatever from family friend. When told what I pay to get bike on the road he was shocked. Cheap. Classic plate, one time $25. Insurance, taylored to yer needs. Training, on yer own. However, hang around, the man has to be fed and eventually some committee/board/bureau will want to help motorcyclists. Be vigilant. Things oft taken for granted, well, you know the rest of the story. And all of this simply adds to the discouragement of youngons with barely enough funds to pay rent. If operational and entry level costs are high enough, well, that's the rest of the story. The thrill of the ride can be outweighed by reality/hazzle of the hoops.

Montana, one fee that is permanent, good forever, $60 I think and most of that is county add-ons. Insurance of any kind is not required on motorcycles; the wise have it anyway. Motorcycle endorsement is a simple test, not sure of the fee, but suspect it is low; MSF course can take the place of the state test. My guess is that a significant proportion of motorcycle riders consider the endorsement to be optional.

Other than the motorcycle, cost does not seem to be a factor in limiting the young or anyone else from riding. Remember, maintenance is not expensive if you do not do it; at least until the accident or when something breaks.

akbeemer said:

Montana, one fee that is permanent, good forever, $60 I think and most of that is county add-ons. Insurance of any kind is not required on motorcycles; the wise have it anyway. Motorcycle endorsement is a simple test, not sure of the fee, but suspect it is low; MSF course can take the place of the state test. My guess is that a significant proportion of motorcycle riders consider the endorsement to be optional.

Other than the motorcycle, cost does not seem to be a factor in limiting the young or anyone else from riding. Remember, maintenance is not expensive if you do not do it; at least until the accident or when something breaks.

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Gotta love the Republic of Montana.

Make it easy to do.

I'm not that old, at least I don't think so. I was born in 1961 in Saskatchewan Canada. I spent a lot of weekends on my Grandparents farm. After the age of 10 I was allowed to carry a 22 rifle to control vermin and give me something to do. Once I was tall enough (12) I was given chores I could do with the farm truck, a 62 Chev with a three on the tree standard. I had older cousins that lived a few miles away and being the older cool kids (14-16) they had their own car and a motorcycle. A small street bike of some sort. We bombed around the stubble fields with both the car and the bike. We cut the roof off the car, made a roll bar out of scrap and welded the doors shut. When either the car or the bike quit an adult would coach us enough to get them running. When we buried them in the mud someone came and towed us out.

In Saskatchewan I think you could drive a farm vehicle on gravel roads at the age of 14, without a license. At 14 in Alberta you could get a motorcycle license for a small displacement bike ( I don't remember what size). I don't remember when helmets became law but I never owned one until I bought my own motorcycle in 1979. When I got my first bike, that I earned the money for flipping burgers at McDonalds, A 1979 CX500 Honda. An amazing machine. It cost me $68 for a year of full coverage insurance. I was making almost $8 an hour cleaning a school at night. The bike, insurance, fuel and the ability to use it as an economical vehicle was all within the grasp of a teenager.


I now own a BMW R1200RT that as an accomplished adult was a major purchase (not apples to apples) My insurance is ridiculous. I have not had an insurance claim that was my fault since 1978, a funny story but not relevant. I have bought thousands of dollars of gear and only ride it for recreation so I've told my insurer.

So we ask why don't young people want bikes. Well we don't want them too. We have made the ownership of a motorcycle a toy for the elite. It's cost prohibitive. Insurance companies penalise young riders (drivers) based solely on their financial agenda. We coddle our children for fear they might get hurt. We chastise their every fantasy for adventure and WE keep them at home until WE think they are ready to leave the nest. This dilemma of diminishing ridership has nothing to do with training or manufacturers building bikes just for them. We have failed to make children learn to grow into adults. We can't save every person from a fatal accident but yet we legalise drugs. We kill many adults in work place accidents, drug related incidents, suicide, murder and world disasters, but motorcycles are dangerous. I want my children, and now my Grandchildren to ride bikes, and quads, and play sports and even fight the bully in the playground. It's called life and it can be a great experience if we are willing to do so.

I'm sure I'm going to get flamed here and maybe even get kicked off this forum but we have ruined the thrill of being young. If we want young people to want to ride a motorcycle WE need to make it a reasonable option. We can train and educate so they do it safely but we have to make it the preferred option of transportation. Today it's not.


I still run with scissors.

Well said, Leon. You nailed it!

Excellent, Leon.

Very well said.

(I think the change started when parents succumbed to cutting the crust off of the white bread. And when book matches had to put the Striker strip on the back.)

Charlie

You called it like it is - sadly.

No flamethrowers pointed at you by me, Leon.

Took the words out of me mouth.

For your consideration-
With the elimination of shop class things turned to COD.......Call on Dad. Dad was on the trailing edge of “working with his hands” and didn’t want to look bad so he “called the guy”.
It would be nice to see people envolved in, or at least know about, all phases of their work.
om

I don't think it is gloomy as I am reading here. But I have been wrong before and might be wrong again. You should have seen what the generation before me said about my generation. They were called "America's Finest." We were something lesser. Every generation is different that their parents, often on purpose.