'07 R1200RT - more final drive business

OK - I'm sure this is addressed somewhere but I've been reading a lot of archives here and haven't found it.

I have only the small socket head plug at the back end of my final drive. From my reading it seems there should be a filler hole inside the wheel mount somewhere. No rubber vent. 12K miles on the bike. Am I supposed to get the oil out of the exposed plug which is not at the bottom? Or is this one that doesn't need an oil change? Can't find anything addressing this in the little owners manual.

Some threads say synthetic, others conventional. ??

Many threads on FD failures. Have the wondrous Bavarian engineers got this sorted out yet? If I was to buy a '15, '16, '17 R1200, would I still be worrying about what seems to be an inordinate amount of driveshaft / FD issues? I realize they may be over-represented here and that many members ride hundreds of K's miles with no problems. Just wondering if y'all think this problem has gone away.

Thanks much!

I have an 07 also and I never had any issues with the FD.
There is no fill hole for the FD on the 07.
The plug at the back is the one you use to empty the FD. You have to disconnect the FD from the spline to empty it and refill (180ml SAF-XO ) through the speed sensor hole after removing it.
It's easy to do

JVB production has excellent info on how to perform maintenance on this bike
http://www.jimvonbaden.com/

You can replace the SAF-XO with: 2003-2009 Land Rover Range Rover Differential Oil - Rear Differential - Castrol LRN7591 - Syntrax Long Life
Which is equivalent to: Castrol SAF-XO and much cheaper.

easy to follow instructions here https://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthrea...ive-Fluid-Change-and-Spline-Lube-Pre-2008-DIY

many other procedures are found here https://forums.bmwmoa.org/forumdisplay.php?44-Hexheads-Camheads-DIY-Tech-Library

OK then. Thanks

What about failure issues? Does a new R nine T have the same final drive pieces?

berniematic said:

OK - I'm sure this is addressed somewhere but I've been reading a lot of archives here and haven't found it....

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You may want to consider buying the BMW Repair CD and the Haynes Manual. I have found that they come in really handy.

Final drives need regular fluid changes just like the engine and transmission. They have seals that will wear and eventually leak. If you replace the seal as soon as it starts to weep and put in fresh oil you will minimize the risk of bearing issues. And yes, the bearing will wear. This will be the same on any year BMW. People often say their final drive "failed" when all that is going on is the seal is starting to leak. It is a relatively minor repair job at that point. If you don't fix it, then you will have a failure, but it will be because a wear item was not replaced when it should have.

Now, that is not to say there haven't been true failures, but many are just leaks.

Rusty- I just can't agree with you on your assessment that many are not failures and are simply a leaky seal. I'm living proof that they do fail, and often. Here's what happened to me.....you be the judge on if I have a legitimate complaint or not?

2 years ago picked up an '05 RT w/ 49K on it. Less than one year later the final drive failed. By failed, I mean it wasn't just a seal. I keep a very close eye on my bikes and there wasn't ever a leak of any sort that would point towards a future failure. Then less than a yr later, that same final drive (it was all new when first replaced...not rebuilt) failed again. Last week my wife's '08RT failed with 42K on it. I'm now assuming I'll be facing more huge repair bills for future failures. I estimate that I've had to dump over $6K just into final drive failures already.....that just plain hurts!

I've read many responses to previous final drive failure threads and I don't understand it. It seems that there is a cross section of members here that don't want to acknowledge this is a problem. However due to the many threads that keep coming up, it is obviously a problem! Please don't add salt to the open "failure" wound by belittling our problem. It's almost as if we aren't allowed to voice our problems in an open forum as it reflects badly on BMW.....why? BMW has done this to themselves by not acknowledging they have an issue and not fixing it......fuel strips come to mind here too.....switches, wizzy brakes, etc.... If they don't want to be criticized, then make a reliable product.

This past weekend I was at a rally of BMW riders and I counted about 30 bikes. These are not your weekend warriors type of riders, but serious ones. The rally is called the Rain Run, and that's about as fitting of a name as there is. It poured all Sat and Sun. I don't say this to be bragging about just how tough all these riders are, but rather I point it out to lend credit to what they said. Responses like "Yeah, mine failed at .......(add in your own mileage here)", or " I had to buy a spare off of ebay so I have one on hand for when mine gives out!", or "I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but...." So, when these veterans of two wheels make comments like this, very "matter of fact-ly", it is pretty obvious there is an issue with those drives. You can poo poo it all you want, but this issue is just going to keep coming up.

Will BMW ever acknowledge it? I'm not holding my breath in today's world. They can continue to not address these issues, but eventually this stance will come back and haunt them. Don't stand behind known failures and people will quietly move on. There is no doubt in my mind about the performance of the RT, but are others so far behind that they aren't to be considered?? Not in my book. You just don't hear about regular big ticket repairs on other comparable bikes, and their performance isn't that much less. Unless BMW changes it's course and addresses these problems, then I'm not going to be able to afford to have one.

Unfortunately, I've come to expect breakdowns that have big numbers associated with the repair. At a certain point, you gotta cry "uncle"...... I can't believe I'm about to say this, but a nice reliable Goldwing is starting to sound appealing. You can all now tell me how I'm nuts for even considering it, but I'm guessing I'm not alone in my feelings.....

I have to agree. We all know our bikes are cool want to love them. H-D owners feel the same. But - why can't a company like this, with famous German engineering, update a great product without screwing it up? And support its customers when well documented problems arise and persist. Its a valid suggestion, but why do I need to buy a repair manual for an expensive bike with 12K miles? From what I've read here, we can change FD oil every 1000 miles and leak or not, many will break. Other writers say the final bearing in the final drive is outside the oil bath and susceptible to water and dirt. Why do that? The airheads didn't? I'll continue to buy them but I think I'll pass on the new R nine I've been lusting for.

berniematic said:

I have to agree. We all know our bikes are cool want to love them. H-D owners feel the same. But - why can't a company like this, with famous German engineering, update a great product without screwing it up? And support its customers when well documented problems arise and persist. Its a valid suggestion, but why do I need to buy a repair manual for an expensive bike with 12K miles? From what I've read here, we can change FD oil every 1000 miles and leak or not, many will break. Other writers say the final bearing in the final drive is outside the oil bath and susceptible to water and dirt. Why do that? The airheads didn't? I'll continue to buy them but I think I'll pass on the new R nine I've been lusting for.

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Where would the fun of that be?
The adventure begins when something goes wrong.
I consider it a fun challenge to try to outwit those famous German engineers and keep the bike running. Or get it running again.
dc

Lets not get hysterical about final drive failures. Yes they happen. Not to all bikes. The percentages don't matter. If you are in the 90% plus without a failure good. If yours fails the failure rate doesn't matter. Voni and I have a combined 1,900,000 miles with no failure. So what. If yours failed, you don't care about mine. And, too, vice versa.

But if you like a specific model, buy the damn thing. The odds are with you. I know of at least five specific factors that contribute to failures. Some you control (loading, shock loads, lubrication). Some (shimming) you don't control until the 1st failure. Then you do. If you want a Goldwing, get one. If you want a Harley get one. If you want a Hodyamasaki get one. If not, buy what you want. Don't overload it. Don't abuse it. Use specified lubricants. Ride on!!

PGlaves said:

Lets not get hysterical about final drive failures. Yes they happen. Not to all bikes. The percentages don't matter. If you are in the 90% plus without a failure good. If yours fails the failure rate doesn't matter. Voni and I have a combined 1,900,000 miles with no failure. So what. If yours failed, you don't care about mine. And, too, vice versa.

But if you like a specific model, buy the damn thing. The odds are with you. I know of at least five specific factors that contribute to failures. Some you control (loading, shock loads, lubrication). Some (shimming) you don't control until the 1st failure. Then you do. If you want a Goldwing, get one. If you want a Harley get one. If you want a Hodyamasaki get one. If not, buy what you want. Don't overload it. Don't abuse it. Use specified lubricants. Ride on!!

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thanks Paul. That was the point I was trying to make.

Woodbutcher said:

thanks Paul. That was the point I was trying to make.

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Rusty- I reread what I wrote and it came off sounding like I was attacking you individually. My apologies. That was not my intent....just frustrated with the lack of caring.

Paul- You've got it wrong here. I do care......so to speak....let me explain. Normal random repairs will be needed with any modern mechanical item. I see the key word here as being "random". With the frequency of the failures, this issue has moved from random to a loose definition of "regular". Even if it is limited to 10% ( I think it's much higher than this and will only get worse as more of those suspect drives gain a few more miles and become more likely to fail) then with that relatively small percentage, it cannot be random anymore. I design buildings for a living and if 10% of my houses failed structurally, I be out of business in short order! Do I care? Yes I do because I know I'm not the only one and this reflects badly on bmw. I want to see bmw get back to the days where their reputation included words like "bullet proof", and these failures simply don't line up with that past.

Do I want to go to a Goldwing? Absolutely not! But, "necessity" trumps "wants" eventually. I wanted the RT and was willing to pay for it, but all of these hidden big ticket repairs are pushing me out. There's only so much $$ to be spent before necessity takes over....sad really....

I don't want a goldwing. I wouldn't mind a good, reliable, light-ish US bike if there was a tourer like the RT. I've read H-D also has engine failures that the company does not help with or want publicized. Could just be hysteria. I'm trying not to be that way. Of course I care about fellow riders. Countless owners have provided much appreciated help on the forum. But its correct, when I'm 500 miles into unfamiliar territory with a broken drive train, I'm not caring about much else. Also, not the kind of adventuring I enjoy. Not that it doesn't present the opportunity to meet great people ( Thanks MOA Anonymous !).

If these failures are so rare, why doesn't a company do all it can to make things right? Help individuals, fix the design, communicate. I'm guessing the benefit would far outweigh the costs.

My FD has not broken, but - crap! - now it looks like I may need a new ABS unit. How about a new model, simple boxer with a rear drive like the old one and no computers or giant electrical connectors that require engineers just to design their locking mechanisms? I bet they could sell some.

My '07RT has 143000kms on it. Have the final drive apart and just pressed out the infamous bearing. It turns smoothly and no wiggle in the housing. There was no indication of trouble before deciding to fit a new bearing either. I change the oil less often than others on the forum and a few have criticized me for false economy. However, I am a trucker and checked with our master mechanics. We use the same oil in the diffs on our trucks, our loads are usually 140,000 lbs in the mountains and the oil is run hundreds of thousands of kilometres before a change.
I followed Jankoman's tutorial, the RepRom disc and the Roam Africa.ca forum for guidance. My mechanical skills are average but I do use quality tools, take my time and double check. Imho, unless you do not know a crescent wrench from a hammer, most owners could successfully handle this job. I'm glad to change the bearing if for no other reason than peace of mind. I'm taking pictures each step of the way and will try to figure out how to share them on the forum when this is completed. Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

31310 said:

My '07RT has 143000kms on it. Have the final drive apart and just pressed out the infamous bearing. It turns smoothly and no wiggle in the housing. There was no indication of trouble before deciding to fit a new bearing either. I change the oil less often than others on the forum and a few have criticized me for false economy. However, I am a trucker and checked with our master mechanics. We use the same oil in the diffs on our trucks, our loads are usually 140,000 lbs in the mountains and the oil is run hundreds of thousands of kilometres before a change.
I followed Jankoman's tutorial, the RepRom disc and the Roam Africa.ca forum for guidance. My mechanical skills are average but I do use quality tools, take my time and double check. Imho, unless you do not know a crescent wrench from a hammer, most owners could successfully handle this job. I'm glad to change the bearing if for no other reason than peace of mind. I'm taking pictures each step of the way and will try to figure out how to share them on the forum when this is completed. Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

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Cant wait to see the tutorial.

31310 said:

My '07RT has 143000kms on it. Have the final drive apart and just pressed out the infamous bearing. It turns smoothly and no wiggle in the housing. There was no indication of trouble before deciding to fit a new bearing either. I change the oil less often than others on the forum and a few have criticized me for false economy. However, I am a trucker and checked with our master mechanics. We use the same oil in the diffs on our trucks, our loads are usually 140,000 lbs in the mountains and the oil is run hundreds of thousands of kilometres before a change.
I followed Jankoman's tutorial, the RepRom disc and the Roam Africa.ca forum for guidance. My mechanical skills are average but I do use quality tools, take my time and double check. Imho, unless you do not know a crescent wrench from a hammer, most owners could successfully handle this job. I'm glad to change the bearing if for no other reason than peace of mind. I'm taking pictures each step of the way and will try to figure out how to share them on the forum when this is completed. Just my two cents, for what it is worth.

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Sounds like it would be a great tutorial. When you put it together, if you need help, contact myself or another Moderator and we would be happy to help.
Gary

Thanks. Like I said, we can change that oil every year or ride and it doesn't affect the main problem part in my understanding. What truck oil is it that you are using? Interesting that bearing was working well. Do you usually travel pretty light?

berniematic said:

How about a new model, simple boxer with a rear drive like the old one and no computers or giant electrical connectors that require engineers just to design their locking mechanisms? I bet they could sell some.

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Not gonna happen. The old guys who remember "the good old days" (through rose-colored glasses IMHO) are quickly passing on to Valhala so there is a rapidly decreasing market for baroque technology. Plus modern regulations mean this isn't going to happen. ABS is going to be mandatory sometime soon (if it isn't already). Emission control is the law. Noise control is the law. Might not be here - but BMW doesn't make country specific bikes. If it's the law in Germany - the bike will arrive here with it.

FWIW - I've owned old airheads, and I've owned hex/camheads - and I've had WAY less problems with the new bikes. The airhead was reliable, in that I had to reliably tune it up every 6,000 miles, had to fix what broke with some frequency and live with sub-par performance. No thanks. Airheads are fun to look at, sit on and once in a while ride, but for everyday use - give me a modern bike. FWIW - the people who wax eloquent over the old airhead rear drives - Hanson's BMW had a thriving business rewelding and machining the hub/wheel splines on the airhead drives. And I became rather adept at changing rear-drive seals on the old airheads, not because I wanted to. Ditto on the alternator and diode boards. Rose-colored-glasses are a wonderful thing - coloring things with nostalgia.

It's the "the older we get, the better we were" syndrome!