German Engineers going rogue........

EPA: Volkswagen also cheated on pollution tests for high-end diesel vehicles

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/02/epa-says-volkswagen-cheated-2nd-time-on-pollution-tests/

Wait until they figure out they have all "been messin' 'round".
OM

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/03/new...nsumption/index.html?section=money_topstories

Volkswagen's troubles just got a whole lot bigger.

Still reeling from the diesel emissions scandal, the German automaker said Tuesday it had understated carbon dioxide emissions and fuel consumption figures when certifying some models.

It said about 800,000 vehicles were affected, and put a preliminary estimate of the cost to the company of the new admission at about two billion euros ($2.2 billion euros).

German Engineers

Now in the midst of changing their marketing slogan to "Fahrfar****ded". T shirts coming soon !

Friedle

Omega Man said:

Wait until they figure out they have all "been messin' 'round".
OM

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When (if) the EPA and Canadian and European testing authorities start testing all brands and classes of vehicles - gas as well as diesel - in "real world" environments, I would be very surprised if the VW Group was the only one that produced much better (read legal) results in the "controlled" environment.

Certainly, ALL vehicle manufacturers are going for the same thing: HP/torque/fuel economy while meeting emission standards for the various classes of vehicles. Does it make sense that only VW engineers saw the difference between how vehicles are tested for emissions versus what they emit in the real world and found ways around it? Our 2012 VW Passat TDI seems to be a very well engineered vehicle - aside, possibly, from huge nitrous oxide emissions and (personal peeve) a speedometer that goes up to 280 km/h (that is 175 mph) by cramming everything about 100 km/h in half the space of speeds below that.

VW has a problem so huge they may not survive. Unless it turns out MANY vehicle manufacturers have the same problem. Then what happens? My guess is that this is not a good time to buy stock in auto companies. Do the authorities rewrite emission regulations if a LOT of vehicles fail real world testing? Do they revise their testing procedures? My guess is that new vehicles are about to become a lot more expensive so the companies can pay the fines and settle law suits. No, we are not going to give up driving.

I have the feeling the VW scandal is just the beginning of the story. A story which, in the end, will cost all of us who drive. Have the feeling I will have that diesel Passat for a long time - a letter from VW assures me it is safe and legal to drive. Really sorry if I am causing you breathing problems.

VW to offer cash settlement

We have one of these vehicles affected and have been notified by VW they are working to make it right with owners.
That is the only notice we have received, however read an article the other day that said VW was considering offering owners up to $1800 dollars and correcting the issue.

For one I do not want it "fixed" it runs great and gets better mileage than my 1150 GS.
I want VW to offer to buy it back for the original purchase price and then some$$$ like BMW did with the new RTs that people could not ride.
The value of the car has taken a hit and some states have said we cannot renew the license without the FIX.

JUST do the right thing buy them back and crush them if they want I don't care. They committed fraud and need to pay the price.

Why should the EPA receive any money from a fine to VW they were not harmed, we were. They get paid to do there job already.

kinda like the Veterans who got blown up and died in the Mideast conflicts when we have billions of Iran's money held then Obama gives it back and the people who should receive it get the shaft one more time.

Dave

davesbmw said:

We have one of these vehicles affected and have been notified by VW they are working to make it right with owners.
That is the only notice we have received, however read an article the other day that said VW was considering offering owners up to $1800 dollars and correcting the issue.

For one I do not want it "fixed" it runs great and gets better mileage than my 1150 GS.
I want VW to offer to buy it back for the original purchase price and then some$$$ like BMW did with the new RTs that people could not ride.
The value of the car has taken a hit and some states have said we cannot renew the license without the FIX.

JUST do the right thing buy them back and crush them if they want I don't care. They committed fraud and need to pay the price.

Why should the EPA receive any money from a fine to VW they were not harmed, we were. They get paid to do there job already.

kinda like the Veterans who got blown up and died in the Mideast conflicts when we have billions of Iran's money held then Obama gives it back and the people who should receive it get the shaft one more time.

Dave

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As a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Joint Guard, Operation Iris Gold, Operation Desert Storm, Operation Just Cause I find your political statement regarding veterans and the CIC at the end of your VW rant inappropriate and misinformed. Don't ride the sacrifice of my comrades' demise as justification for your pathetic refund.

rangerreece said:

As a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Operation Joint Guard, Operation Iris Gold, Operation Desert Storm, Operation Just Cause I find your political statement regarding veterans and the CIC at the end of your VW rant inappropriate and misinformed. Don't ride the sacrifice of my comrades' demise as justification for your pathetic refund.

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Not my intent, I too am a Veteran and would never think to use my time and loss while in the service to justify a refund for my vehicle.

My point is the government seems to think they should reap the monetary rewards for something that has not harmed them as most fines from the EPA are.

Do you not think that any proceeds from a situation that was not your fault should be divided between those that actually suffered a loss??

At least your time in the trenches came at a time when you came home you were congratulated for your service unlike mine where we were called baby killers and spit on.

Dave

davesbmw said:

Do you not think that any proceeds from a situation that was not your fault should be divided between those that actually suffered a loss??

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Excuse me, but without the EPA emission regulation, you had no loss and no reason to claim a refund.

I have no comment on any of the other issues.

36654 said:

Excuse me, but without the EPA emission regulation, you had no loss and no reason to claim a refund.

I have no comment on any of the other issues.

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Excuse me, but isn't it a fact that the EPA (and government auto testing branches in other nations) dropped the ball and allowed a lot of badly polluting cars to be sold world wide? It was an independent test, designed to prove what a great diesel engine VW had created, that sadly proved otherwise. Along with Dave, I think the regulatory bodies - along with VW - should be coughing up dollars to the owners if these vehicles cannot be fixed to meet the pollution standards. It shouldn't be the owners who take the financial hit. When we bought these cars, we thought we were doing the "environmentally friendly" thing.

Of course VW intentionally cheated. The EPA (and others) were incompetent. So, unless the problems can be fixed - which seems unlikely - I would prefer that the owners be compensated for their purchase price (perhaps minus XX cents per mile/kilometer) and the cars crushed. Very complicated and nasty business which I don't expect will be resolved any time soon.

As I mentioned in a previous post, doubt very much that VW was the only company to find a way to cheat. It may well be that the whole auto industry, and the whole testing industry, may be found wanting when it comes down to protecting the health of our nations. No telling what will happen then - except much more expensive new cars.

Pulled from Bench Racing today :

Let's spend time finding who else did what we did instead of fixing their mess...well kind of. German KBA doing the testing of everybody elses vehicles.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...al-vw-uk-offers-discounts-£1500-loyalty-bonus

henzilla said:

Pulled from Bench Racing today :

Let's spend time finding who else did what we did instead of fixing their mess...well kind of. German KBA doing the testing of everybody elses vehicles.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...al-vw-uk-offers-discounts-£1500-loyalty-bonus

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I'm not as cynical as Steve, here. I think they (KBA) are just doing what all of the emissions regulatory agencies (such as our EPA) ought to be doing in a concerted and coordinated effort. If cheaters be about we need to out them all.

It's Cynical Saturday

I envision the new mobile test dyno inside a large enclosed environmentally controlled 18 wheeler box with a treadmill to roll all wheels and moving to make the software think the GPS tied to the engine management is moving.
The old stationary test seems to be able to be fooled by all testing agencies. Need a new standard.

Howz that?

The EPA and its variants tested what they are allowed by the dance regulatory agencies, legislative branches of various countries and regions and the lobbying groups allow.

They will retrospectively go after companies, but it will have a marginal impact for reasons we can't talk about here.

In the end, we will continue the artificial testing of nothing much to do with the real world.

mika said:

The EPA and its variants tested what they are allowed by the dance regulatory agencies, legislative branches of various countries and regions and the lobbying groups allow.

They will retrospectively go after companies, but it will have a marginal impact for reasons we can't talk about here.

In the end, we will continue the artificial testing of nothing much to do with the real world.

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Mika, I am the owner of a 2012 Passat TDI. So far, I don't even know if my car is one that actually may be compliant with Canadian emission standards. The only sentence you wrote in your brief post that I believe I understand is the last one. "Artificial" testing will continue because "real world" testing is too expensive and the real world has too many uncontrollable variables, right? Your first sentence implies that the testers are hand-cuffed by government and lobbying groups. Any proof of that assertion? Your second sentence is baffling. If VW is saddled with fines in the billions, never mind law suits, that impact is far from marginal for the company. Why can we not talk about it here? After all your posts, doubt that you are worried about being banned because what you say is "political."