-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
-
Beginning April 1st, and running through April 30th, there is a new 2024 BMW MOA Election discussion area within The Club section of the forum. Within this forum area is also a sticky post that provides the ground rules for participating in the Election forum area. Also, the candidates statements are provided. Please read before joining the conversation, because the rules are very specific to maintain civility.
The Election forum is here: Election Forum
Video
- Thread starter naddy100
- Start date
That's kinda where my question is headed. I've seen the usual instructions: close, medium, wide angle shots, pacing, transitions, cutaways, and a viewer's sense of time. And I've seen the usual instructions that it's all about the story.
I wouldn't mind a (supportive) critical eye on what I do. "They" say that still and video are pretty different, but I'll bet we've got some expertise here.
In a lot of cases, I'm dealing with real life that's rolling forward, and the participants aren't going to tolerate another take, but this time wave when you ride by. Not that my friends aren't pretty tolerant, but sometimes video isn't the main objective of the day.
If someone wishes, I'll submit a first video. It's our club meeting on Saturday at the Stennis Space Center.
http://www.bmwridersofmississippi.org/Images/Posted Pics/Feb08/Stennis/Stennis.html
I've got a wish list of shots I wish I'd gotten but didn't.
Noel
I wouldn't mind a (supportive) critical eye on what I do. "They" say that still and video are pretty different, but I'll bet we've got some expertise here.
In a lot of cases, I'm dealing with real life that's rolling forward, and the participants aren't going to tolerate another take, but this time wave when you ride by. Not that my friends aren't pretty tolerant, but sometimes video isn't the main objective of the day.
If someone wishes, I'll submit a first video. It's our club meeting on Saturday at the Stennis Space Center.
http://www.bmwridersofmississippi.org/Images/Posted Pics/Feb08/Stennis/Stennis.html
I've got a wish list of shots I wish I'd gotten but didn't.
Noel
S
SNC1923
Guest
Hey Naddy,
As one of the mods on the Photo Phorum, I would have to say that I think video would fit well here. My co-mod is out of town, and I would want him to weigh in on this, but it's YOUR forum. I just don't see it as a problem at all.
Because you've genuinely asked for critique, I'm happy to offer some. I'm far from an expert, but I did sell pro-sumer video for a couple of years and counseled many retail customers on how to improve their movies. Please take my comments for whatever they are worth to you.
Opening sequence: shots of bikes and individuals offer limited visual interest; however, I don't know these folks (except Lyle??). It may be that they represent something beyond just human interest. The shot of the bus arriving is GREAT: it helps to tell the story.
The shot of everyone getting on the bus seems F A R too long. It does, however, serve the purpose of getting everyone's face on camera. I would cut it, but I see both sides of the argument.
After this, things pick up nicely. Short, interesting scenes of varying lengths. Good camera work, too. Some are a bit jumpy, but that's become an emulated style in Hollywood! I like your transitions and your amazing self-control with the zoom. I mean not only that you do it sparingly, but that you do it slowly. Very nice.
The shot at the flight simulator is masterful editing. Start quick, ends quick, is funny. . . . The following shot in the space suit is great camera work. Really very entertaining. Shot going from the newspaper headline to the TV is great.
I'd say this is a really nice little film. It's length, at only four minutes, is pretty ideal. The only real criticism I have is the aforementioned bus embarking shot. Your camera is steady, your shots interesting, your editing judicious.
I like to incorporate still shots when applicable. Perhaps you might include some of your clubmate's still images to fill out some scenes? I remember counseling customers on two or three key points:
The camera doesn't have to move. You can allow something to move within the frame.
Don't zoom much.
As a general rule, keep your scenes under 10 seconds. (There are numerous, obvious exceptions, but this is a good rule of thumb.)
You seem to be doing all of this already. Thanks for sharing this entertaining video. I'm sure others will chime in as well. Maybe even someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
As one of the mods on the Photo Phorum, I would have to say that I think video would fit well here. My co-mod is out of town, and I would want him to weigh in on this, but it's YOUR forum. I just don't see it as a problem at all.
Because you've genuinely asked for critique, I'm happy to offer some. I'm far from an expert, but I did sell pro-sumer video for a couple of years and counseled many retail customers on how to improve their movies. Please take my comments for whatever they are worth to you.
Opening sequence: shots of bikes and individuals offer limited visual interest; however, I don't know these folks (except Lyle??). It may be that they represent something beyond just human interest. The shot of the bus arriving is GREAT: it helps to tell the story.
The shot of everyone getting on the bus seems F A R too long. It does, however, serve the purpose of getting everyone's face on camera. I would cut it, but I see both sides of the argument.
After this, things pick up nicely. Short, interesting scenes of varying lengths. Good camera work, too. Some are a bit jumpy, but that's become an emulated style in Hollywood! I like your transitions and your amazing self-control with the zoom. I mean not only that you do it sparingly, but that you do it slowly. Very nice.
The shot at the flight simulator is masterful editing. Start quick, ends quick, is funny. . . . The following shot in the space suit is great camera work. Really very entertaining. Shot going from the newspaper headline to the TV is great.
I'd say this is a really nice little film. It's length, at only four minutes, is pretty ideal. The only real criticism I have is the aforementioned bus embarking shot. Your camera is steady, your shots interesting, your editing judicious.
I like to incorporate still shots when applicable. Perhaps you might include some of your clubmate's still images to fill out some scenes? I remember counseling customers on two or three key points:
The camera doesn't have to move. You can allow something to move within the frame.
Don't zoom much.
As a general rule, keep your scenes under 10 seconds. (There are numerous, obvious exceptions, but this is a good rule of thumb.)
You seem to be doing all of this already. Thanks for sharing this entertaining video. I'm sure others will chime in as well. Maybe even someone who actually knows what he's talking about.
Thanks for all of the comments, especially about the opening sequence! That's the value of an independent assessment.
Noel
There are a number of linked videos which can be found through out this forum. One member that goes by "sfarson" has links to many very fine examples of motorcycle videos.
Almost a year and a half ago I started a thread on this topic. Sfarson provided some links in that thread to many of his videos. Worth following... See:
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=8389
For public viewing I've been posting videos to either YouTube or Google Video, but those videos get re-worked to have a lower resolution (and smaller size). The (free) hosting sites obviously want to reduce somewhat the storage requirements and bandwidth necessary to send and receive video.
Sfarson has (or had) his own server which allowed him to retain a much higher resolution in his videos (plus the subject matter was pretty cool also).
I'd be happy to offer some tips that I've learned about various hardware configurations and editing software. Similarly I'd quite like to learn about what others are doing.
Almost a year and a half ago I started a thread on this topic. Sfarson provided some links in that thread to many of his videos. Worth following... See:
http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?t=8389
For public viewing I've been posting videos to either YouTube or Google Video, but those videos get re-worked to have a lower resolution (and smaller size). The (free) hosting sites obviously want to reduce somewhat the storage requirements and bandwidth necessary to send and receive video.
Sfarson has (or had) his own server which allowed him to retain a much higher resolution in his videos (plus the subject matter was pretty cool also).
I'd be happy to offer some tips that I've learned about various hardware configurations and editing software. Similarly I'd quite like to learn about what others are doing.
B
bensonga
Guest
I've wanted to combine my interest in video (Panasonic AG-DVC30) and motorcycling too. Here's an example of what I'd like to do someday. This is a low quality YouTube version, but I like the movement of the bike and the combined soundtrack. I was able to find a higher quality copy of this video, so I cleaned up some of the obvious editing glitches on the copy I enjoy at home now. I suppose the fact that I have a pair of Kawasaki W650s influences how much I enjoy watching the video....again and again and again 
, so I'll be curious to know what you folks think it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6fbon11QdY
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
, so I'll be curious to know what you folks think it.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6fbon11QdY
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Attachments
B
bensonga
Guest
Here's another motorcycle video I really like....with Beemers! The Dolomiten ride video by Karawane. I believe you have to download the Windows Media file (20 mb) to see it.....but it's well worth it.
http://www.motorradkarawane.de/fpx/dolomiten.wmv
Of course, after watching a video like this one, I keep asking myself "How did they get that shot, and that one....that one too?"
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
http://www.motorradkarawane.de/fpx/dolomiten.wmv
Of course, after watching a video like this one, I keep asking myself "How did they get that shot, and that one....that one too?"
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
B
bensonga
Guest
Just too bad the fellow on the F650GS Dakar wasn't riding something a little sportier!
How about an R1200S pavement dancing with that HP2? Wooohooo indeed!
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Attachments
burnszilla
New member
There's great information here for video producing.... http://current.com/producerTraining.htm
bricciphoto
R12ST
Noel my long ago college education was in television/video/film production. I do not work in the industry today, so I'm lost on any new technology, but generally the aesthetic values of the craft are (mostly) unchanged. I'm willing to provide some critique/feedback when I have an opportunity to view your video on my home internet connection.
Thanks for the link. I found a lot of good tips in viewing just the initial 5 min "Production Tips" clip.
C
crgrbrts
Guest
I've been enjoying the adventures of Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman on their GSs thanks to downloads of the "Long Way Round" and "Race to Dakar" series from Streamburst TV. They're not free, but reasonably priced and the "High Quality" files are as good as the packaged DVDs. I downloaded both series (plus some great MotoGP and IOM TT videos) and burned them onto DVDs. There's enough good viewing here to keep one entertained 'til some reasonably decent riding weather arrives.
Check 'em out at http://www.streamburst.tv/catalogue/brands
Craig
ignoring the Chesapeake trio election returns
Check 'em out at http://www.streamburst.tv/catalogue/brands
Craig
ignoring the Chesapeake trio election returns
Attachments
B
bensonga
Guest
Yes, although I don't speak German....I'm pretty sure Dolomiten must be Dolomites. I thought it was a well done video and soundtrack, despite the hooligan wheelies.
The only minor wheelie I've ever done was 100% unintentional on my SuperHawk, accelerating up a hill from a 15 mph right turn....once was enough for me, but I still enjoyed this video.Looking at it again and again.....I just can't help wondering how they got some of those shots. I also like the mixing of video and still images.....a good idea I know others have mentioned. Nice change of pace with the music too, there at the end.
Wish I could find a better quality version.
Ok.....so now I gotta ask again.....what did folks think of the Kawasaki W650 Retro video? Short, fast paced, good music (I liked it anyways)....interesting flashes of video that really enhanced the sense of motion and speed to me.
Any comments on that one folks?
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
B
bensonga
Guest
Another impressive motorcycle adventure video is "Riding Solo to the Top of the World". A fellow in India rode from Bombay to a high plateau on the India/China border....on a 350cc motorcycle up over 16,000 to 18,000 ft elevation passes. He carried all his own equipment (on the bike), camping gear, video gear, still camera, audio gear. He shot all the video, still and audio himself.....including video of him riding the motorcycle across the plains, up the mountain passes, etc. Interesting story in and of itself on how he did that! An amazing journey. This is one of the best motorcycle adventure movies I've ever seen. It has won numerous awards.
I ordered the DVD and it arrived (from India) via priority mail, well packaged in less than a week.
http://www.dirttrackproductions.com/
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
Attachments
bricciphoto
R12ST
Noel:
A very nice job. I agree with many of TomÔÇÖs comments. I am going from memory because I watched your video last night. I really donÔÇÖt remember the beginning that well, which is sort of telling about the content. I think one thing would have helped is establishing a location for the intro: bikes arriving, tight shots (and quick edits) of people removing helmets, turning keys off, map on a tank bag, people walking, talking, stills of a sign or building to suggest location, etc. The parking lot shot was too broad to have much meaning or impact. The bus loading shot is too longÔÇöat least from that one camera position. You could have varied the camera position, height, location, etc. to break it up. Single camera production is difficult for ÔÇ£home videosÔÇØ because you generally donÔÇÖt have the opportunity to create a storyboard or have the opportunity for multiple takes to vary the camera perspective while maintaining continuity. The camera is the viewer and once you set up in the front of the bus I was waiting to see how the camera was going to get on the bus without disrupting the flow. You did a nice job judiciously using dissolves and fades to manage transitions that required a lapse of time or relocation of the camera (viewer). Your shots of the gentleman in the shuttle cockpit, flight simulator, gentleman in the space suit, the newspaper and TV were all generally excellent. I would have zoomed out from the cockpit shot as opposed to zooming inÔÇöwe already had the pay off when we saw him in the cockpit. Getting closer didnÔÇÖt reveal much more from that point, whereas seeing him up close, then learning he was in the cockpit would have been more interesting (in my opinion). The space suit shot was great. As an alternative you could have zoomed a wee bit faster on that one or actually moved the camera closer to prevent your video from being ÔÇ£zoom happyÔÇØ (I donÔÇÖt think it was, but variety is nice). Great job spotting the opportunity to combine the newspaper clipping and TV footage in one shot as an alternative suggestion, you could have tilted the camera up as opposed to pan or tilted and slowly zoomed out. A lot of my comments are Monday morning quarterbacking. I agree with Tom: stills inserted here and there would have added some interest to the overall documentation of the trip. I would add some voice over narration in addition to music. I would also use some of the wild sound (although to be honest, I turned the volume down so I really donÔÇÖt know how much you recorded, but a good video has a mixture of voice over, music, and sound the camera recorded.) One thing that is consistent from still photography to motion pictures (video) is film/tape/disk space is cheap and time isnÔÇÖt. Basically shoot your butt off and then cull it down rather than try to stretch shots or have shooterÔÇÖs remorse (ÔÇ£I wish I would have taken a shot of X, Y, or ZÔÇØ). Overall you did a nice job maintaining balance from shot to shot. Some of the zooms were a little long. There werenÔÇÖt any obvious jump cuts. Most of the shots appeared to be from eye levelÔÇöa little variety (emphasis on a little) in height, wide versus close-up, wouldnÔÇÖt have hurt. Look for opportunities to shoot multiple perspectives of the same scene to mimic multiple camera production (recognizing your going to editÔÇöas opposed to shooting live). It looks as though you have a good grasp of the basics and have good discipline on zooming, panning, etc. Length was just about perfect.
A very nice job. I agree with many of TomÔÇÖs comments. I am going from memory because I watched your video last night. I really donÔÇÖt remember the beginning that well, which is sort of telling about the content. I think one thing would have helped is establishing a location for the intro: bikes arriving, tight shots (and quick edits) of people removing helmets, turning keys off, map on a tank bag, people walking, talking, stills of a sign or building to suggest location, etc. The parking lot shot was too broad to have much meaning or impact. The bus loading shot is too longÔÇöat least from that one camera position. You could have varied the camera position, height, location, etc. to break it up. Single camera production is difficult for ÔÇ£home videosÔÇØ because you generally donÔÇÖt have the opportunity to create a storyboard or have the opportunity for multiple takes to vary the camera perspective while maintaining continuity. The camera is the viewer and once you set up in the front of the bus I was waiting to see how the camera was going to get on the bus without disrupting the flow. You did a nice job judiciously using dissolves and fades to manage transitions that required a lapse of time or relocation of the camera (viewer). Your shots of the gentleman in the shuttle cockpit, flight simulator, gentleman in the space suit, the newspaper and TV were all generally excellent. I would have zoomed out from the cockpit shot as opposed to zooming inÔÇöwe already had the pay off when we saw him in the cockpit. Getting closer didnÔÇÖt reveal much more from that point, whereas seeing him up close, then learning he was in the cockpit would have been more interesting (in my opinion). The space suit shot was great. As an alternative you could have zoomed a wee bit faster on that one or actually moved the camera closer to prevent your video from being ÔÇ£zoom happyÔÇØ (I donÔÇÖt think it was, but variety is nice). Great job spotting the opportunity to combine the newspaper clipping and TV footage in one shot as an alternative suggestion, you could have tilted the camera up as opposed to pan or tilted and slowly zoomed out. A lot of my comments are Monday morning quarterbacking. I agree with Tom: stills inserted here and there would have added some interest to the overall documentation of the trip. I would add some voice over narration in addition to music. I would also use some of the wild sound (although to be honest, I turned the volume down so I really donÔÇÖt know how much you recorded, but a good video has a mixture of voice over, music, and sound the camera recorded.) One thing that is consistent from still photography to motion pictures (video) is film/tape/disk space is cheap and time isnÔÇÖt. Basically shoot your butt off and then cull it down rather than try to stretch shots or have shooterÔÇÖs remorse (ÔÇ£I wish I would have taken a shot of X, Y, or ZÔÇØ). Overall you did a nice job maintaining balance from shot to shot. Some of the zooms were a little long. There werenÔÇÖt any obvious jump cuts. Most of the shots appeared to be from eye levelÔÇöa little variety (emphasis on a little) in height, wide versus close-up, wouldnÔÇÖt have hurt. Look for opportunities to shoot multiple perspectives of the same scene to mimic multiple camera production (recognizing your going to editÔÇöas opposed to shooting live). It looks as though you have a good grasp of the basics and have good discipline on zooming, panning, etc. Length was just about perfect.
And I appreciate the comments you added as well! Cumulatively, I've got a bigger bag of ideas for next time. Thanks,
Noel
Threeteas
New member
Yes, although I don't speak German....I'm pretty sure Dolomiten must be Dolomites. I thought it was a well done video and soundtrack, despite the hooligan wheelies.
Looking at it again and again.....I just can't help wondering how they got some of those shots. I also like the mixing of video and still images.....a good idea I know others have mentioned. Nice change of pace with the music too, there at the end.
Wish I could find a better quality version.
Ok.....so now I gotta ask again.....what did folks think of the Kawasaki W650 Retro video? Short, fast paced, good music (I liked it anyways)....interesting flashes of video that really enhanced the sense of motion and speed to me.
Any comments on that one folks?
Gary Benson
Eagle River, Alaska
These videos clearly shows the difference between riding for a film and filming a ride.
Filming of this nature requires many, many interuptions to what would be regarded as a normal ride. Setting up shots ahead of time, then riding back and forth until they are captured and that's with two riders. With one rider it would be even harder.
There's even acting, well a mime of sorts, at the coffee stop, that needs preproduction planning. Then judicious editing.
I'd suggest it shows what should be aimed for when making a film, but caution that it is not a ride that's filmed, but is riding for a film and if you expect that you can accomplish both in one, then expect to be either frustrated in your ride, or, disappointed in your film (if these videos are the examples you are using for comparison).
kbasa
Well-known member
I thought it was pretty entertaining. Tina and I have talked about making some travelogue type videos, but are sort of stuck about how to get decent video when stopped. We could make one of us the "host" while the other works the camera, but I'm not sure that's really what we're looking for.
One of the things I liked about the Dolomite video was the scene in the coffee shop. That's what motorcyclists look like when they're stopped after a decent ride.
I guess I should try and build some kind of script, huh? Then maybe go out as a pair of us and shoot some video and see what falls out.
