Hall sensor replacement, do I need the engine lock pin?

[drj434343]

I'm in the middle of a 60K mile massive maintenance job on my 1997 R1100RS. The next job is replacing the hall sensor in order to avoid possible wiring failure.

The instructions indicate I need to use the special BMW locking pin tool to lock the engine in place at OT before removing the pulley and hall sensor. However, looking at the pictures, it seems like the pulley is keyed, and I mark the position of the hall sensor before replacement. So, why does the engine need to be at OT and why does it need to be locked so securely? Can't I just make sure the engine doesn't move at all between when I remove the old sensor and install the new one?

I have looked but can't find a key tool source. What do you all do?

 

[roger 04 rt]

The main reason for a locking pin is so you can break the bolt that holds the lower pulley free and to later retorque it.

 

[dieselyoda]

Impact gun or a good buddy.

Naaahhhh. Don't need no stinking spezial tools.

Good with an impact will break stuff loose and a personal long standing relationship with your gun will get you damn close to the proper torque.

The other option, put tranny in 5th gear, have a buddy stand on the rear brake while you loosen the bolt, give buddy a beer or two and repeat opposite of removal.

Math never adds up though, a two beer promise for help always turns into a box.

 

[DougRaymond]

As noted, you need to lock, or tightly restrain, the crankshaft in order to break loose the crank pulley bolt and to re-torque it when finished.

One way to do that is to put the bike in the highest gear and restrain the rear wheel.

A convenient way is to insert a locking pin, parallel to crank axis, through a hole just above the starter, through a hole in the flywheel. Any pin about 5/16" dia and about 4" long will do, such as a long allen wrench or the L-shaped Torx wrench for the brake calipers (shipped with most R1150RT bikes anyway). The hole in the flywheel lines up when the crank is at TDC ("OT" through the timing hole).

The hole above the starter is hard to find. Again, the R1150RT (don't know about yours) has a round groove in the airbox that lines up with this hole, it's a big help in finding it.

 

[rs36vh]

hall sensor

Just wondering. what are you going to do with the old sensor? I will buy it!

 

[gsaddict]

I'm in the middle of a 60K mile massive maintenance job on my 1997 R1100RS. The next job is replacing the hall sensor in order to avoid possible wiring failure.

The instructions indicate I need to use the special BMW locking pin tool to lock the engine in place at OT before removing the pulley and hall sensor. However, looking at the pictures, it seems like the pulley is keyed, and I mark the position of the hall sensor before replacement. So, why does the engine need to be at OT and why does it need to be locked so securely? Can't I just make sure the engine doesn't move at all between when I remove the old sensor and install the new one?

I have looked but can't find a key tool source. What do you all do?

As mentioned, a 5/16" bolt will do the job, just remember to remove it when the job is finished.
Or you make up one as below. (the yellow wire goes up to the handlebar to remind removal)
Mark the edge of the old plate on the block with a scribe, you will not need to time the engine upon installation of the new one.

If you are interested in having the old one professionally rewired with Teflon High Temperature wire I offer that service. PM me if interested.

 

[robsryder]

The post above offers to repair the Hall sensor using PTFE (Teflon) insulated wire - this is likely an economical way to restore the device and fix the issue (breakdown of low-temp rated insulation on OEM part). If one wishes to undertake their own repair (e.g. removing old wires and replacing with new high-temp rated wires, soldering, etc.) there are some sources for such wire.

One source uses PTFE wire rated to 200 degC (392 degF) around $11 for 25 feet for 26 or 28 gauge wire (multiple colors available) -
http://www.bulkwire.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html

A less expensive source is Adafruit that offers Silicone insulated wire (26 gauge) that is also rated for 200 degC. This wire cost about $5 for 25 feet and is available in multiple colors -
http://www.adafruit.com/products/2520

Info on replacing and repairing the Hall sensor can be found below -
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf
http://hackerschicken.eu/BMW/Hall/Hall_sensors.pdf

Following is a link to a YouTube video of a vendor offering a repaired Hall sensor -
https://youtu.be/zknga56N19c

Following is a link and embedded video from IllinoisBMW showing replacement of the Hall sensor
https://youtu.be/0g5WD7C4K_0

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0g5WD7C4K_0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Finally, here is a link to a YouTube video that describes the general operation of a Hall sensor -
https://youtu.be/lQdGjiYGNog

 

[Omega Man]

Nice job on this thread guys
I've "tagged" it up for future reference.
Happy collapsing fields!
OM

 

[rs36vh]

Wire

If you want to rewire the sensor, send me a address and I will send you the correct wire. I did mine , and have 20 feet of it. Silver coated aviation wire.

 

[gsaddict]

Naaahhhh. Don't need no stinking spezial tools.

Good with an impact will break stuff loose and a personal long standing relationship with your gun will get you damn close to the proper torque.

The other option, put tranny in 5th gear, have a buddy stand on the rear brake while you loosen the bolt, give buddy a beer or two and repeat opposite of removal.

Math never adds up though, a two beer promise for help always turns into a box.

An impact will easily remove the bolt.
It is very important to torque to 50nm upon reassembly.
Failure to do so can result in the pulley/sensor ring assembly spinning on the crank which will cause the engine to cease running.
The lock pin makes this task easy.

 

[gsaddict]

The post above offers to repair the Hall sensor using PTFE (Teflon) insulated wire - this is likely an economical way to restore the device and fix the issue (breakdown of low-temp rated insulation on OEM part). If one wishes to undertake their own repair (e.g. removing old wires and replacing with new high-temp rated wires, soldering, etc.) there are some sources for such wire.

All good info.
I might add it is very important to use temperature rated heatshrink tubing.
Good workmanship is paramount as well, this is risk of damaging the Motronic if done incorrectly.

 

[BC1100S]

If you are interested in having the old one professionally rewired with Teflon High Temperature wire I offer that service. PM me if interested.

With his reputation preceding him, I would like to attest to the high quality of GSAddict's work.

 

[drj434343]

You guys are are awesome, this is a great thread. Sounds like my gut was right, which is that there is no particular reason for OT and engine only needs to not move in order to facilitate pulley bolt removal. I've got lots of experience with doing those, so I'm confident I'll be able to remove and then retorque.

I was planning on keeping the old hall sensor unit and either getting it repaired or repairing it myself and then keeping it as a spare, though I'm not sure they're known for failing once the wiring issue has been addressed.

 

[happy wanderer]

With his reputation preceding him, I would like to attest to the high quality of GSAddict's work.

I will second that. GSAddict has re-wired two hall sensors for me and many more for friends, local bike club members and customers from all over N.A. Top notch repair at a reasonable price.

After being stranded twice by this problem (which BMW still claims does not exist!) I carry a spare one (already re wired by GSAddict) in my glove box in case I need it. Given the quality of the fix and the wire he uses I doubt I'll ever need it but I figure I might come across someone who does.

 

[gotfog]

I just finished installing Dan Cata's HES on my 1996 R1100GS. His design is quite robust, the plate itself milled from Stainless Steel.

As far as the locking pin, I thought the purpose was to establish OT, so that when installing the new HES, one can rotate the HES to find the exact point at which TDC occurs. A simple test device can be made that will show where this occurs, and you can find the plan here :

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_timing_box.pdf

Without the pin in place, and the electronic signal box to align the HES after installation, I am not sure how you would accurately place the HES. Do not rely on the alignment of the two small holes, at the bottom of the plate and the hole in the casing; mine is off by half a hole, but with the pin in place and the LED signal box, I know I have the TDC nailed. From here, one will have a reference point, if one then wanted to either advance the timing, or even retard it.


And the entire process outlined:
http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

The IllinoisBMW video discussed above is very helpfull.

When I took mine off, and opened the sheath, the insulation was indeed cracked, all along the length of the 4 smaller wires inside. When I test ran it, the bike ran better than it ever has, with vibrations nearly extinct.
View attachment 50912
It is well worth the effort.

John

 

[robsryder]

All good info.
I might add it is very important to use temperature rated heatshrink tubing.
Good workmanship is paramount as well, this is risk of damaging the Motronic if done incorrectly.

Amazon has some small (48 inch) lengths of various diameters of a PTFE heat shrink tubing rated at 500 degF. The diameter you need will depend on the wire used. The 0.125" ID tubing has a shrink ratio of 1:4 -
http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tr...56493&sr=8-1&keywords=ptfe+heat+shrink+tubing

The 3/16" ID tubing has a 1:6 shrink ratio -
http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tr...56493&sr=8-5&keywords=ptfe+heat+shrink+tubing

 

[gsaddict]

Amazon has some small (48 inch) lengths of various diameters of a PTFE heat shrink tubing rated at 500 degF. The diameter you need will depend on the wire used. The 0.125" ID tubing has a shrink ratio of 1:4 -
http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tr...56493&sr=8-1&keywords=ptfe+heat+shrink+tubing

The 3/16" ID tubing has a 1:6 shrink ratio -
http://www.amazon.com/Zeus-White-Tr...56493&sr=8-5&keywords=ptfe+heat+shrink+tubing

Sizes needed are 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4"

 

[drj434343]

I just finished installing Dan Cata's HES on my 1996 R1100GS. His design is quite robust, the plate itself milled from Stainless Steel.

As far as the locking pin, I thought the purpose was to establish OT, so that when installing the new HES, one can rotate the HES to find the exact point at which TDC occurs. A simple test device can be made that will show where this occurs, and you can find the plan here :

I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!

 

[gsaddict]

I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!

TDC is so the lock pin can be inserted. Then the pulley bolt can be loosened and tightened.

 

[gotfog]

I read through the links, and they indicate you should put the engine in TDC, but they don't explain why. In fact, they also explain that the notched pulley has the hall trigger integrated, which means there is no way to change the orientation of the trigger in relationship to the crank position. The only thing you need to mark during replacement in my mind is the orientation of the hall sensor plate to the engine case.

I replaced mine this afternoon but haven't restarted the bike yet. We'll see!

You are setting up the relationship between three things. The position of the crankshaft, the pulley with the metal gate inside, and the HES. You are correct in stating that we cannot change the relationship of the pulley with the crank, as the notch assures us of correct alignment. However, the HES position needs to be defined relative to the crank/pulley combination. That is why the plate has elongated holes; the plate can be rotated beneath the pulley to establish alignment with TDC also.

There is a copy of the BMW_R1100(RT-RS-GS-R)_Repair_Manual.pdf floating around on the net, and appears to have been published in 2000, so I use it to reference the '96 GS. If you cannot find it, PM me and I will be happy to send a copy. I am reluctant to cut and paste as it is copyrighted.

The Technical Data section states that the static ignition timing is adjusted to TDC. That is what you are trying to do. From there the Motronic does its magic, and adjusts this on the fly( how, I have no idea). But the relationship of this is set from TDC, and hence the pin. This method assures a static, finite, repeatable position of the crankshaft/pulley combination, leaving only 1 variable, the rotation of the HES plate. Marking an existing plate and assuming it is correct, is well, and assumption. The fact that one is entering into the HES process seems to imply there are currently issues that need to be resolved.

The Pin allows us to establish TDC in an installed engine. MaxBMW sells it here, but you can make one yourself.
https://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/f...?source=catalog&vid=51668&diagram=ST_11 2 650

From the Repair manual, after removing and installing the HES, which you know how to do, the steps are as follows. I will type them verbatim:

Timing the Ignition
1. Lock the clutch housing with the TDC insert pin, BMW No. 11 2 650 (this is the pin you are making from the hack-sawed U-Bolt)
2. Connect the ignition tester, BMW No. 12 3 650 and adapter lead, BMW No. 12 3 652, to Hall-effect trigger plate. (this is the box described in the IllinoisBMW video, and how to build from above link)
3. Slacken off plate of Hall-effect trigger.
4. Turn plate until telltale lamp just goes out. (This is what you are really after and trying to achieve)
5. Tighten plate on Hall-effect trigger.
6. Remove OT (TDC) insert pin.

End of Procedure.

Now with the relationship established precisely between the HES/Crank/Pulley combination, now I would mark the plate and engine housing for future reference. But if I ever changed the plate, the sensors, or any other physical alteration to the plate that modifies its geometry, I would repeat the above procedure. It is a bad case of the "Zactlys" but that is me; your stroke may be different.

I hope this helps; best to all.

John