Dgt = Gone

[BUBBAZANETTI]

Who could you possibly be refering to?

Many of us

 

[MOTOR31]

At the same time, there was no majority that said DGT should stay.

As for "empire of the whiners", it depends on how you look at things. I think it's important to step back and look at both sides of the issue, even if you have a strong belief one way or another. Some of the members who didn't like it might see everyone who is complaining about it being taken away as "whiners".

So that begs the question; what makes your opinion that DGT should stay more important than their opinion that DGT should go? Note this leaves out other issues of moderator resources.

So does it require a majority to maintain a portion of the forum? If so when and where do we vote on the sections of the forum?

As for the empire of the whiners is concerned it's really pretty simple. If DGT was still on the forum, those that didn't like it had a choice, either look at it or simply ignore it and go on with their use of the rest of the forum. In the draconian "solution" as we have it now, there is no choice. It was made for everyone by those who decided they didn't like it. I really don't know how to make it any plainer than that. The forum was intended for communication. Now it's only for communication approved by the lowest common denominator. Heaven forbid we have anything not on the approved list.

I posted there very little and spent little time reading there as well. I found it to be a nice diversion from the plain vanilla in the rest of the forum. Will it be a large loss to me personally, not really. It is significant to me only in that the forum is really just an experiment as well. How soon will it be before it's decided it "sucks" and is shut down? That would certainly cut down on the work load for the mods.

 

[RUSSBRITT]

(and we're making it clear, if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever, you need to find another outlet for that urge. many people have mentioned that you can get that itch scratched over at advrider.)

Sounds like someone had their liberal feelings hurt..


I guess you want the membership money, but please just leave.....is that what you are saying? Yes I do use Adventure Riders, and Boxerworks.....
Boxerworks is a great site, with no moderators or fees....go figure.

People that were offended by the post , didn`t have to view them. I for one enjoyed reading some on the post.....didn`t like reading others.

I don`t like to hear PC moderators complaining, will they be removed next ? Lets vote on this....

As stated , if this is a motorcycle only forum....their is a lot of cleaning to do on the rest of the forum.....

 

[Threeteas]

Many of us

Let's be honest here for a moment...we all know who it refers to, and I feel that the responsibilty for DGT being removed should be fairly and squarely attributed to their posting's and not the Moderators, who were given little choice in the matter given the circumstances.

We were given a sand pit in which to play. Someone decided it was theirs and used it repeatedly as a personal kitty litter. Isn't there something about not deficating on your own doorstep?

The only problem is instead of kicking the cat up the backside, the Mods decided to move house, which seems an over reaction.

I guess we'll hear from you, if the cap fits.

 

[mika]

did you write it for him?





(is that enough laughing smilies to indicate it was said in jest?)

Now I understand why you don't like smilies, you're short two!

 

[redclfco]

DGT: Loosing somthing here...

Too bad, it's a loss, and some of the threads had value, had meaning that will be gone forever. And why? somebody got their hackles up over somthing!? Hope it wasnt me disagreeing with Ian on road rash...if so, I'm sorry!??

Anyways, I still love this site, and won't be cashing in my MOA card anythime soon, just think it was an over reaction to pull it.

I blame politics...enough is enough, I cant stand ya (seinfield reference here) because every where I turn we got politics, and I get rather sick of the redundant debate recycled over and over..yuccck

I learned alot about relgion, about subjects that I would of never read about before...

No motorcycle, no kiss and make up, no thread... got it!

What the heck, life is too short, lets move on...

 

[henzilla]

Didn't have a preference myself...didn't spend a lot of time there, only posted maybe once I recall. Didn't vote to kill it, just don't need the entertainment so have no dog in the hunt. I read some of the threads and ignored a whole lot more. As mentioned it was at least another look into our differences in lifestyles and wide beliefs in this small piece of the world we share thru riding motorcycles. I'll miss that part, but have gained valuable intel to use when a handshake between us becomes a reality
I believe a few of y'all are beating up on Ian a little more than he deserves...Just another guy that has a hard job to do like it or not...Hey, he went riding to chill out...and you can't fault him for that. I rode over a few slimy rocks in the middle of a creek today for those wondering, but I didn't see no stinkin' people under any

 

[rkasal]

Didn't have a preference myself...didn't spend a lot of time there, only posted maybe once I recall. Didn't vote to kill it, just don't need the entertainment so have no dog in the hunt. I read some of the threads and ignored a whole lot more. As mentioned it was at least another look into our differences in lifestyles and wide beliefs in this small piece of the world we share thru riding motorcycles. I'll miss that part, but have gained valuable intel to use when a handshake between us becomes a reality
I believe a few of y'all are beating up on Ian a little more than he deserves...Just another guy that has a hard job to do like it or not...Hey, he went riding to chill out...and you can't fault him for that. I rode over a few slimy rocks in the middle of a creek today for those wondering, but I didn't see no stinkin' people under any

No one, to my knowledge, beat up on Ian or any moderator as I recall. Of course, username got his liberal panties in a twist but that's ok. It is duly noted that he made no mention of those who also toss out so-called hate speech from the left. Perhaps this was a teaching moment intended on using so-called hate speech from the right.

Just where was his and others' indignation when the President was maligned? Some came out against the slam directed to the Marines but largely, when so-called hate speech was directed agains the right, it was ok. When directed against the left - it's banned.

So much for tolerance. So much for being open-minded. As we have seen here, the various reasons tossed out for DGT's demise do not hold up. The simple reason was that some did not agree out of politics. It's too bad I had not completed the "Liberal Facism" book for there are a lot of lessons there for the left. I know another here has completed the book but the more important thing consistently illustrated was the intolerance of the left.

And by the way, I was not aware the Jimmy Carter had a dental problem but I know that he had a Soviet Spy in his campagin ("The Sword and Shield: The Secrets of the KGB" by Vasily Mitrokhin.

 

[JCABRANES]

Woa, what reparte?®. That the best you can do, Duke?

No, I can do alot better if I gave a damn about responding to your attempt to goad me into a flame war. I believe that is called trolling but you are probably safe from any of the consequences of that because you no doubt are part of the "in" crowd. Truth be told I could give a rat's behind if my response disappointed you. Fair enough?

 

[testinglogin]

We survived before DGT, and I'm sure we'll survive afterwards. Will we lose a few members over removing it? It's quite possible; time will tell. I don't think the forum is going to collapse. I'm taking a step away for a breath of fresh air, and then I'm going out to do something constructive. Specifically, I'm having a beer. Here's to everyone, for or against DGT.

 

[statdawg]

This is a bike forum.
I don't think we should expect the mod to be babysitting a few members 24/7. I thank the mods for all the volunteer time.
Some may not know it, but the moderators seem to read every post. They like to keep it PG-13.

A bike forum ? Baby sit ? Wow

Good riddance. It was an aggravation farm.

Sure it doesn't effect you so kick it while it is down the group wants you too. BTW did you ever post there ?

There goes any illusion that the membership has a voice in the way things are run here.

that's the spirit
and besides, there's actually more than 6 people who use it over there ( Adv Rider ) and the "mental challenge" is considerably greater (some of those guys REALLY know their stuff)

+1

I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.
Alexis de Tocqueville


DGT started as a place where people poked at each other at first and then started evolving into less attack oriented discussion of the issues. DGT was killed to satisfy a few people (read whinners) who didn't or don't want controversial discussions on this board. Frankly, I would be stunned if the vast majority of the membership gave a rat's rear end that DGT existed. So be it. I'm disgusted by the whole thing and specifically by the unilateral decision to just blow it out without any warning to the people that actually used it. JD, I think you would agree with me that a few people posting that "this sucks" is not a good enough reason to kill it. What killed DGT was a few self important people on this board who decided that it had to go so it did. They have the power to do it so they did it. End of story, that's life. But just to remind everyone why DGT started... it was a way to segregate these discussions into an area away from the Campfire. My prediction is that you will see these discussions in the Campfire area again. Fact is that there is a segment of the membership that wants to discuss these issues. Blowing out DGT isn't going to change that.

Great quote... from 1835.
No one is stopping you from starting your own forum and doing and discussing whatever it is you'd like to do or discuss there.

An axed established forum vs go start your own. I know GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

What were we afraid of folks? A little dissonance is always healthy . . . and if you were offended or hypersensitive, the title of the forum was suggestive of its contents!

I do hope that the DGT threads begin to spill over into threads which are more related to child safety seats, safer toys, and nutritious snacks while on the road. Yeah, let's just keep talking about the latest GPS mounting system, blue tooth ready helmet, the new tank bag for the GS, or the real purpose behind the Iron Butt . . . wait a minute, I'm falling asleep

Perhaps we should all begin to wear ATGATT before coming into the website to get in the spirit of things and so no one gets hurt!

It would truly be a boring world if we all agreed on everything . . . just like the heavy handed administrators of this website and the backhanded use of private messages to encourage the end of the DGT forum.

RIP DGT!

The thin skinned needs ATGATT sitting in front of their PCs.

Ian is the formal voice of the membership.

Formal ?

dude, you are wrong on SO MANY levels.
i see the forum liaison job as being the person who acts to balance the interests of the members, the moderators, and the club's leadership for the purpose of furthering the club's best interests.
my voice is just one.
members spoke, i listened.
ian

Thanks Ian the members have spoke. Thanks for all those warnings I never received when you were Baby sitting 24/7 on DGT. BTW everyone during all my postings on DGT I received only one, that is right only one PM about something that was posted. Incredible. Such drama.

Forgive me, but that sounds a lot like the point of the posts here protesting the removal of DGT.

Overall, that forum irritated a number of our forum user/members. That's not why the 'MOA funds this site. It's also not an unrestricted free-speech area. It is paid for by the 'MOA with membership dollars and run by volunteers, and the folks charged with running the show here have to keep everyone's interests in mind.

I fully understand the "if you don't like it, don't look" school of thought. I'm a big believer myself. I also support accommodating small constituencies if and when possible. DGT there irritated a lot of people on this forum. Something can be not-for-everyone and still have a place - but not if it irritates a large number of other people.

Look at it this way - you're at a rally and having a great (but loud) late night party. Others want to sleep and complain. Ok - you're having a fine time, and they are welcome to join you, but they don't want that. They want to sleep. After some point, they have the right to NOT be disturbed more than you have a right to make noise. Somebody has to make that call - here, that's the Forum Moderation Team, headed by the Forum Liaison which right now is Ian. He 'da man. He represents the membership here because that's his job and he was appointed to it by the Board, who also represents the membership.

It should be remembered that DGT was Ian and the Team's idea in the first place. You will not find a greater champion of openness on this forum than Ian. He has proven that time and time again over the years as an advocate for the membership. So, when he and the Team decide DGT has to go, I thing that deserves some serious consideration and they deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Greg, thanks for the information. BUT the DGT had warnings posted and it was quiet. I can't understand the Rally scenerio.

Oh, the drama.

as far as mod time constraint can someone point me to the thread asking for another volunteer to help out??
did anyone ask??

Rob was too busy to come back.

I demand that it be removed immediately . . . for I am offended!

1. Many people on that forum can afford expensive photographic equipment and software and I can't . . .
   
2. Many on that forum can take better pictures than I can . . .
   
3. It takes up too much server space with all those pictures, so as a club we can't afford its expense for just a few . . .
   
4. The photography forum has nothing to do with BMW motorcycles and don't tell me that a picture of a dirty GS is a qualifying factor . . .
   
5. And besides, it sucks!

Do these all sound like good reasons to eliminate that forum? Who do I complain to about this?

The Beer Team said this is a bike forum and it is PG 13. Enough already. Don't expect the Photography to need baby sitting.

the way i see it, i can easily put aside things like only a small number of the users were using DGT (vintage has this attribute,) that it placed too heavy a moderation load on us (that can be managed) or that it had non-BMW content (campfire, photography have this.) the bottom line is that DGT is inconsistent with the spirit of the BMWMOA.

DGT was created as an experiment to see what would happen when we quarantined the kinds of topics that are divisive instead of completely restricting the topics for discussion. the discussions in DGT were typically involved people using loaded words, stereotypes, and not really interested in legitimate arguing, or learning, or trying to see the point of view of others, but in incessantly blasting out their opinion. that is not in the spirit of this organization. so the experiment was a success, it gave us data and allowed us to stop speculating and see what would happen.

the BMWMOA is about bringing people together under the umbrella of being BMW enthusiasts. it is about setting aside our differences so that we can emphasize what we have in common.

and we're making it clear, if you have some deep-seated need to tell someone in an online forum that hillary clinton is a communist, barack obama is a muslim, george bush is the greatest president of all time, jimmy carter has cheap dental work, or whatever, you need to find another outlet for that urge. many people have mentioned that you can get that itch scratched over at advrider.

but we dont want you to leave, we want you to share with us what we have in common. we want to hear about your bike. we want to see pictures of it and all your trips. we want to hear about wrenching on it. we want to be the world's number one online (and real-life) community for enthusiasts of BMW motorcycling.

"Not every item of news should be published.
Rather must those who control news policies endeavor
to make every item of news serve a certain purpose." Joseph Goebbel.


From a later post by User Name showing there was total lack of proper management in dealing with the trolls by the mods.

"Wow, this is better than I had hoped!
When I wrote my earlier post and gave examples of things we didnt want to read about, I had more examples. I had "George bush is the worst president." I had "America is at fault for training bin laden to fight the Russians." and I had "the right to choose should not be the right to murder." I thought that by having a balanced list of stupid, dogmatic, parroted examples from the left and the right I could make my point. But then I thought, "you know, we have a couple of blowhard a$$hats on this forum. They like to troll and bully other people. I wonder if there is a fun way to both state and DEMONSTRATE exactly what is wrong with DGT." so I edited my note and removed the balance. I left only the "liberal" examples. And a couple of you jumped all over that and immediately began labeling me, jumping to conclusions, and roaring with indignation.

Thank you for demonstrating exactly why DGT is no longer available. That couldn't have gone more smoothly. End of quote

Tank You as well, job well done. Now perhaps clean up the anti-rally thread or is that in the spirit of the MOA ?

 

[gregfeeler]

Greg,

Who is on this marketing and communications committee? Please post here or a link here to where this information may be found.

I am the Committee Chair, and other members are Michael Friedle, Muriel Farrington, and Jackie Hughes. President Dave Swider, Executive Dave Swider, Media Editor Vince Winkel, and Advertising Director Ted Moyer are Ad Hoc members.

Take at look at the "From The Board" column in your December Owners News. That column introduces this new addition to the ON, and gives a brief overview of the operation of the Board at the committee level, and describes some of the current C&M projects.

 

[HODAG]

I am the Committee Chair.

and a good one at that.

 

[kreinke]

Let's be honest here for a moment...we all know who it refers to, and I feel that the responsibilty for DGT being removed should be fairly and squarely attributed to their posting's and not the Moderators, who were given little choice in the matter given the circumstances.

All this fuss over my nekkid Buddha?

 

[SNC1923]

Good riddance

OK, "good riddance" is a bit harsh, and for that I'm sorry. There are good folks here on this forum who dug DGT and for you, I'm sorry it was pulled.

FWIW, and IMHO, it had nothing to do with any mods being attacked or any political affiliations, left or right. It was an experiment to corral divisive and incendiary threads that popped up in the campfire section and that sometimes got doghoused. I don't think the experiment achieved the desired outcome. That's my take on it--may not be accurate.

What I think a lot of people are saying, including myself, is that we don't come here for bitter, nitpicking arguments or political diatribes (whoever they are for or against). We come here to have a good time and hang out. For every member that feels that it is his inalienable right to say pretty much whatever he wants here, there are one or more members who are alienated, or worse, leave because of the tense and divisive atmosphere.

Clearly, we have a lot of different definitions of "good time," and that's to be expected. I thought username's post above (#94) was quite eloquent, and it sums up nicely how I feel, too, though in prose far better than my own.

I'm not looking to have the final word on this, and I fully expect that there will be a number of members who will take exception to, or argue with, my above-stated opinions. That's cool.

This is one of my favorite cyber-hangouts and I really like and respect the way it's managed.

I'm off to play poker, smoke a cigar, and sip a little corn squeezins. Adios.

 

[bullshit]

One more time

GEORGE BUSH IS AN IDIOT!

 

[kbasa]

GEORGE BUSH IS AN IDIOT!

You're not helping. 3

 

[gregfeeler]

and a good one at that.

 

[redclfco]

la cucracha opinion

DGT is like an apartment dwelling insect that won't go away. Let me explain;

In large apartment complexes, some resident will bring in roaches, then lots of roaches will start to appear, skipping through the walls into the neighboring apartments. When the exterminator is finally called, entire ROWs of apartments will be fumed at once, and usually imeediate relief is found by the apartments that had the commercioal roach bombs set off. HOWEVER the next 20 apartments start to have a roach, problem; they simply moved!

Take DGT away, kill it, bury it and I assure you


it will rise up in other areas of the forum

you never thought possible.

Unless you weed out all the "malcontents" myself included (all 6 of em? HA! where did you learn to count?) and cancel our membership, burn our BMW MOA card,

your roach problem will continue....

why do you think the roach has been around for hundreds and thousands of years?

cause their smart? not necessarily..

They just (confound it mother nature!) they just are part of life, and part of this world!

 

[belquar]

I can't understand the Rally scenerio.

.

YEah. Apples and oranges. The only thing my computer annoys is my sleeping children when they wake up due to the rattling of my fingers on the keyboard.

It really was a place that if you were annoyed by, you didn't have to go there. I don't ever go to K-bikes or Vintage, or F-Bikes or hexheads, etc etc etc. I am sure if I looked I could find something annoying there too.

I didn't really participate in DGT because I don't give a flying ##(% about politics and some of the other topics. But that goes for a lot of things that roll through here. But the removal was not really necessary.

As for the moderation load....don't moderate it. Sticky that it is unmoderated. What damage can really come from keyboard wars. Keep it out of site from non-club members.

Jo Mamma is barely moderated. The antics over there make DGT look like preschool.

I understand that it was a small minority who were regular posters, but who cares. If it is really only them, how much moderation does it need.

Anyways...I don't really care one way or the other. I went there everyday just to see if any new topics popped up that I might find interesting but rarely opened threads in there. But I rarely read everything on here anyways.

Carry on.