The High Cost of FD Failures

[mikeinpittsburgh]

On the LT website we have been tracking the failures. It seems to be about 4%.
We have been asking people to report them to NHTSA.
Not a scientific study but it is the best info I have seen.

Mine was replaced once at 16,000 miles and a second time at 22,000 because it was installed improperly.

Has this affected my opinion of BMW motorcycles? Yes
Will I buy another BMW? Maybe


JM2CW
YMMV

 

[beemerdons]

None of the above ever happened to my 1984 FLH with 212,000 miles!

Dear Hugh,

I bought a 1984 Harley-Davidson FLH Electra-Glide in September of 2003 from Harley-Davidson of Santa Maria, California. This was the last year Shovelhead with the 4-speed transmission and the belt drive. I proceeded to put 212,000 miles on that machine with absolutely no final drive belt failures. I put a spare belt in the saddlebag expecting that I would need it some day, but I never did. I did change the original belt at 100,000 miles with the spare, and put another spare into the saddlebag.

I am a member of United Association of Pipefitters Local 669 and I worked in Alaska, and my FLH was up there with me; if I ever was going to pick up a rock and destroy the belt it would be while riding in The Last Frontier. My final drive belt never failed. Sold it to a fellow member of my Union and he is still riding it with the second belt.

I currently have 30,000 miles on my 2002 H-D FXD and have had absolutely no problems with cam chain tensioners, the top end, the transmission or the security system; the bike has always started. My clutch on my 1996 R1100GS failed while returning to Phoenix from the BMWMOA International Rally held in Bend, Oregon at 39,000 miles and the final drive failed at 45,000 miles in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. Both times the GS had to be trucked back to Arizona for repairs; clutch done at Iron Horse and the final drive at Victory BMW.

Hugh, please do not get me wrong; I do love my BMW's and if an outsider asks I will always respond that BMW is still my favorite bike. I love attending our own AZ Beemers Roadrunner Rally, the excellent rallies that the California BMW clubs host each and every year, and I live for each year's BMWMOA International Rally; I never miss them! But basically my BMW's now exist as Shriners Parade Bikes, I only roll them out for BMW Event functions; I absolutely no longer trust them to take me the long distances into Mexico and up to Canada anymore!

Sincerely yours,

Don Stanley
beemerdons@aol.com
www.azbeemers.org
www.fastour.us

 

[hlothery]

Dear Hugh,

I bought a 1984 Harley-Davidson FLH Electra-Glide in September of 2003 from Harley-Davidson of Santa Maria, California. This was the last year Shovelhead with the 4-speed transmission and the belt drive. I proceeded to put 212,000 miles on that machine with absolutely no final drive belt failures. I put a spare belt in the saddlebag expecting that I would need it some day, but I never did. I did change the original belt at 100,000 miles with the spare, and put another spare into the saddlebag.

I am a member of United Association of Pipefitters Local 669 and I worked in Alaska, and my FLH was up there with me; if I ever was going to pick up a rock and destroy the belt it would be while riding in The Last Frontier. My final drive belt never failed. Sold it to a fellow member of my Union and he is still riding it with the second belt.

I currently have 30,000 miles on my 2002 H-D FXD and have had absolutely no problems with cam chain tensioners, the top end, the transmission or the security system; the bike has always started. My clutch on my 1996 R1100GS failed while returning to Phoenix from the BMWMOA International Rally held in Bend, Oregon at 39,000 miles and the final drive failed at 45,000 miles in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico. Both times the GS had to be trucked back to Arizona for repairs; clutch done at Iron Horse and the final drive at Victory BMW.

Hugh, please do not get me wrong; I do love my BMW's and if an outsider asks I will always respond that BMW is still my favorite bike. I love attending our own AZ Beemers Roadrunner Rally, the excellent rallies that the California BMW clubs host each and every year, and I live for each year's BMWMOA International Rally; I never miss them! But basically my BMW's now exist as Shriners Parade Bikes, I only roll them out for BMW Event functions; I absolutely no longer trust them to take me the long distances into Mexico and up to Canada anymore!

Sincerely yours,

Don Stanley
beemerdons@aol.co
www.azbeemers.org
www.fastour.us

And, so no one misunderstands me, I am neither trying to bash HD. I put 24K on my Road King prior to selling it to my brother-in-law, and it is still going strong two years later with no significant problems. My point, which I did not make clearly to anyone but me, was that, while I was an HD rider, I frequented the chat boards for that marque. They all had similar threads to this one for all the issues I mentioned, and many more. They were all talking about the POS's HD was now making, mostly from Chinese parts, and how they could no longer trust the marque. It, like this thread, was scary as heck, but, IMHO, was purely anecdotal, and not representative of the many machines from each marque which run for thousands of trouble-free miles. Trust is, clearly, an individual thing. Trust issues are not unique to BMW. That's all I'm saying.

 

[redclfco]

Lets go play the lottery!

On the LT website we have been tracking the failures. It seems to be about 4%.We have been asking people to report them to NHTSA.
Not a scientific study but it is the best info I have seen.

Mine was replaced once at 16,000 miles and a second time at 22,000 because it was installed improperly.

Has this affected my opinion of BMW motorcycles? Yes
Will I buy another BMW? Maybe


JM2CW
YMMV

4% of LTs 96% don't have an issue..hmmm

Now lets take that into consideration of ALL late model Beemers, and do some quick "connect the dots" math here.

I have no clue the membership of the BMWMOA but lets assume for the sake of this "campfire" discussion it's 120K 240)K? Lets go with 200K. Since the only stat I have to work with is LT's 4% failure rate, if it's diluted with GS, K bikes, S bikes lets say the overall FD failure rate is maybe 1%? Correct (surely somebody anal enough to be reading this with a slide rule here can come up with better numbers than this ol farm boy, right?)

Lets count these BMW owners who in the next 6 months will be diagnosed with prostrate cancer of some degree...1%


Well by golly, I don't think I'm going to not build a house and mortgage my life, not have a family because the doctors tell me I have a 1% chance of failure, not going to run to the barn crying and weeping about my impending doom because of this figure....

Now lets look at the FD failures. forget worry, 1% or even four % means nothing to me.

You all are batting an empty pinata here. Sort of like your alarming the water drinkers in Gillette...

I say again BMW REP lurking out there in the shadows...STEP UP AND SET THE FACTS STRAIGHT.

Red

 

[testinglogin]

So, is it really as bad as it sounds? 4% failure rate? Is this a smaller problem that is getting internet hype d (where one failure sounds like 100), or will BMW motorrad be out of business in the next few years? I guess it's good the MOA rents their clubhouse?

 

[gsanderson]

I say again BMW REP lurking out there in the shadows...STEP UP AND SET THE FACTS STRAIGHT.

Red

I agree. I'd like to see the real numbers.

 

[sachiwilson]

4% of LTs 96% don't have an issue..hmmm

(snip)

Now lets look at the FD failures. forget worry, 1% or even four % means nothing to me.

You all are batting an empty pinata here. Sort of like your alarming the water drinkers in Gillette...

I say again BMW REP lurking out there in the shadows...STEP UP AND SET THE FACTS STRAIGHT.

Red

Huh. I think 4% is pretty darned high. Too high for a final drive, to be sure. Look at it this way - would you accept a 4% failure rate in (say) a brake line? A piston or other disabling engine part? A wheel? A tire? I don't think so.

 

[redclfco]

facts and numbers

Huh. I think 4% is pretty darned high. Too high for a final drive, to be sure. Look at it this way - would you accept a 4% failure rate in (say) a brake line? A piston or other disabling engine part? A wheel? A tire? I don't think so.

If you bring to light the total BMW late models lets say ALL Hex Heads, for example, the 4% becomes less than 4% by virtue of dilution. Simple math. If you put water in the beer, it becomes coors!

Tell me it's a 4% failure rate based on factory numbers across the board versus a unscientific tracking based on somebody writing in on a LT forum; then lets talk turkey.

I will be the first one to bury my face in mothers busom and cry like a little child if the percentage reaches the 4% porported here for every late model BEEMER

But until then, as the immortal Alfred E Newman has made so famous "WHY ME WORRY?"

I've heard nothing here but the sound of the empty pinata crashing to the ground!

Where the hell is the Officals at BMWMOA in either dispursing this numbers by contacting BMW and helping us lowly members get somthing factual? It's their future as well as BMWs' reputation that suffers when smoke is blown in the air about FD failure without accurate statistics!

BMW needs to be heard here, then we will talk turkey!

Red

 

[PAGoldsby]

Thread hijack in progress ...

If you bring to light the total BMW late models lets say ALL Hex Heads, for example, the 4% becomes less than 4% by virtue of dilution. Simple math. If you put water in the beer, it becomes coors!

< snippage >

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

Whoa.

Back up a second.

Coors is made from beer? Unpossible. I've drunk beer in my day, and I've drunk Coors. There is no way the two liquids are remotely related.

Carry on.

 

[cheesewhiz]

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

Whoa.

Back up a second.

Coors is made from beer? Unpossible. I've drunk beer in my day, and I've drunk Coors. There is no way the two liquids are remotely related.

Carry on.

Now THAT'S funny !!!!!

 

[redclfco]

The Author has to respond

Now THAT'S funny !!!!!

Now wait just a cottenpicking minute. Since we have effectively taken this thread and tied it's proverbial arms behind it's back with the Beer comment above, I, as a Colorado native am bound by honor to respond. Those of you who wish to debate the subject of imaginary mechanical failures of preposturous proportion please talk amonst yourselves for a moment.


I'm responding to this blasphemy for which I agree whole heartedly and aplologise for those bean counters getting ready to blast me and Alfred E. Newman out of the water in regards to my stance on unsubstantiated rumors about percentage of fd failures..once again...I digress. I'll say this once, and once only:

As a native of Colorado and a veteran of Beer consumption in Colorado..

Coors has a stadium named after them.

Joseph Coors has ran politics behind the scenes in Colorado since God made the dirt hill behind his Golden Colorado Brewery, but make no mistake that his horse piss....er, beer will never be condoned by the Natives as anything close to the real sacred liquid of which I no longer participate called Beer!

I still drink St. Pauly's version of a "non" alcoholic beer and it still beats the pants down to the ankles to Coors beer!

Hopefully someone is reading this post and seeing the humor as the primary ingredient in this post. I could give a rat’s ass about the subject matter!

Red


You may now return to the rightful subject of Final Drive Failure aka preposterous motion sickness "PMS"

 

[JWILLIS125911]

The "dilution" is a solution to the 4% pollution (FD failures) assumes the other models do not have FD failures. For a fact, GTs have had failures.

Of course, no official numbers in the public domain.

If you bring to light the total BMW late models lets say ALL Hex Heads, for example, the 4% becomes less than 4% by virtue of dilution. Simple math. If you put water in the beer, it becomes coors!

Tell me it's a 4% failure rate based on factory numbers across the board versus a unscientific tracking based on somebody writing in on a LT forum; then lets talk turkey.

I will be the first one to bury my face in mothers busom and cry like a little child if the percentage reaches the 4% porported here for every late model BEEMER

But until then, as the immortal Alfred E Newman has made so famous "WHY ME WORRY?"

I've heard nothing here but the sound of the empty pinata crashing to the ground!

Where the hell is the Officals at BMWMOA in either dispursing this numbers by contacting BMW and helping us lowly members get somthing factual? It's their future as well as BMWs' reputation that suffers when smoke is blown in the air about FD failure without accurate statistics!

BMW needs to be heard here, then we will talk turkey!

Red

 

[redclfco]

The "dilution" is a solution to the 4% pollution (FD failures) assumes the other models do not have FD failures. For a fact, GTs have had failures.

Of course, no official numbers in the public domain.[/QUOTE]

Yep. I agree. That is the true issue here. When we know that number, we will have a full house or at least a pair of threes!

 

[Rapid_Roy]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Beer has water in it.
Since I am working in a Brewery today, I can go check if I have to.

 

[smilingcouple]

BMW Failures

Truthfully,

My first BMW is a 85, K100 I currently own. Picked it up until I decide on my next new bike. I have owned Harleys, Hondas, VW Trikes. My issue is why pay 5K more for a BMW? Drive failues can be prevented but BMW has to understand when logic.

I can have a Kawasaki Concourse 14K, Honda Goldwing for 18K, Yamaha Stroliner or a Harley Dressed out for 19K. I will pay more for a superior bike but BMW must ensure they produce that bike or reduce the cost to 15K. I have the 24K for my new BMW but am waiting for a good reason to spend it.

BMW reps must provide reliability numbers to keep the brand strong. Give me a 100K powertrane warrenty. I like the quality of people that ride BMWs but I am still a business man that wants my moneys worth.

Murf

 

[Stuff2c]

Not to worry, you can always fix it on the side of the road with the extensive tool kit they provide.

 

[testinglogin]

Not to worry, you can always fix it on the side of the road with the extensive tool kit they provide.

What's that tool on the left? My R100GSPD came with one... although it also came with a LOT of other tools than you have there, as well.

 

[PAGoldsby]

Correct me if I am wrong, but Beer has water in it.
Since I am working in a Brewery today, I can go check if I have to.

Elmer's glue has water in it. That doesn't make it Beer.

Not that I don't believe you, but I subscribe to the policy of "Trust but Verify." Hence, I politely request that you provide me with 24 x 12-oz sealed samples of this alleged "beer" that you will be checking. PM me for delivery information! Further, if this so-called "brewery" that you are in happens to be located in Chippewa Falls, be aware that I prefer the Sunset Wheat.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

 

[Stuff2c]

What's that tool on the left? My R100GSPD came with one... although it also came with a LOT of other tools than you have there, as well.

I think it's part of a zip gun they provide. When the final drive fails in the desert and your camel bak runs dry you can off yourself. The germans are a thoughtful bunch ya know.

 

[Rapid_Roy]

Elmer's glue has water in it. That doesn't make it Beer.

Not that I don't believe you, but I subscribe to the policy of "Trust but Verify." Hence, I politely request that you provide me with 24 x 12-oz sealed samples of this alleged "beer" that you will be checking. PM me for delivery information! Further, if this so-called "brewery" that you are in happens to be located in Chippewa Falls, be aware that I prefer the Sunset Wheat.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Nope. Milwaukee. I am living the High Life. Although I had to run over to the Liene's Brewery this afternoon.
I checked, there is a big pipe labeled dihydrogen Monoxide feeding the beer vats.
So fish have had sex in your beer. That is why I drink Tequila.
Also, I have had no final drive failures. I am not done yet though.