Is me or the bike- '24 GSA 1250 service issue

[bluechip]

New '24 1250 GSA gone in to the selling dealer's maintenance shop for the first service along with one service additional, significant concern at only 415 miles.
Beginning at 300+/- miles, every time the bike leans, I hear ( and feel) a "rump, rump, rump" type sound coming from directly under, if not from the rear section of the bike. It's noticeable from 35 mph & up through 65-70 mph. It gets louder and more pronounced the harder I lean it either left or right and the faster I go. No noise at all when straight up, no lean. Service tells me nothing to see here and to adjust my windshield to mitigate the sound! WTF? Both the mechanic and the service writer say they've road-tested it and tell me there's no problem. I know better as there's something not right as it didn't make any undercarriage/ tire noise for the first 300 miles, but I can't point out with clarity the source.
I'm no stranger to riding with 50 years (off & on) in the saddle, on a dozen or so different bikes, with this GSA being my second BMW after my K1600. I'd expect this kind of noise coming from under a well used, ragged out mount, but not a NEW BMW.
Are they impersonating insurance company adjusters here?- trying to deny a warranty issue on what I know is a real time condition that should be addressed? Also, is there a next step up the food chain with BMW if these jokers refuse to get this resolved?
Any help or clues to help isolate the source of this issue will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks, bluechip

 

[omega man]

Welcome to the forum.
Let a friend ride it WITHOUT mentioning any of the symptoms and see if anything is mentioned.
You have it documented at the dealer and have at least the 3/36 warranty behind you.
Chances are this is not a plot to deny you a warranty kinda deal.
Try riding it some more and note any changes. I can suggest that riding next to “Jersey” style barrier will frequently cause a sound “bounce” or “amplification” that may help in further identification of any sound.
OM

 

[GTRider]

Did the bike come equipped with “road” tires or “dirt” tires? Those are the only two choices offered to dealers and they have no say as to brand or model within those selections. Just wondering if what you are hearing/feeling is “dirt” tires.

Best,
DeVern

 

[bluechip]

Welcome to the forum.
Let a friend ride it WITHOUT mentioning any of the symptoms and see if anything is mentioned.
You have it documented at the dealer and have at least the 3/36 warranty behind you.
Chances are this is not a plot to deny you a warranty kinda deal.
Try riding it some more and note any changes. I can suggest that riding next to “Jersey” style barrier will frequently cause a sound “bounce” or “amplification” that may help in further identification of any sound.
OM

When I get it back (Tuesday), it sounds like a worthy plan to help diagnose

Did the bike come equipped with “road” tires or “dirt” tires? Those are the only two choices offered to dealers and they have no say as to brand or model within those selections. Just wondering if what you are hearing/feeling is “dirt” tires.

Best,
DeVern

It's at the dealer now, so I can't read the tire type, but they definitely have a street tread pattern, rather than any type of knobbies, but I am leaning towards a tire sound

 

[Scott9999]

My 2 cents. The only think I can think of that would do that, would be wheel bearings. It could be tires, but tires are usually pretty consistent. If you're feeling a thump at lean angle, you're going to feel SOMETHING related to tires riding straight up, IMHO. Certainly, tire noise can present itself at different speeds, but wheel bearings noise in turns are a classic symptom on 4-week vehicles. I know it's new, but, that's just an "fyi". Trying to think it thru, I doubt a final drive or driveshaft/u-joint problem would present that way, nor the swing arm. Telelever? I can't see it doing that, either.

If it were wheel bearing noise, pulling the tire, putting up on a balancing spindle (re: Marc Parns), and putting a stethoscope to the spindle/axle, might enable you to hear the grinding sound of a failed/failing bearing. Obviously, the wheel should spin free and easy if you give it a spin, once off the bike.

Just brain storming, but the advice given depends greatly ... ah ... on the quality of the brain. YMMV.

 

[bluechip]

My 2 cents. The only think I can think of that would do that, would be wheel bearings. It could be tires, but tires are usually pretty consistent. If you're feeling a thump at lean angle, you're going to feel SOMETHING related to tires riding straight up, IMHO. Certainly, tire noise can present itself at different speeds, but wheel bearings noise in turns are a classic symptom on 4-week vehicles. I know it's new, but, that's just an "fyi". Trying to think it thru, I doubt a final drive or driveshaft/u-joint problem would present that way, nor the swing arm. Telelever? I can't see it doing that, either.

If it were wheel bearing noise, pulling the tire, putting up on a balancing spindle (re: Marc Parns), and putting a stethoscope to the spindle/axle, might enable you to hear the grinding sound of a failed/failing bearing. Obviously, the wheel should spin free and easy if you give it a spin, once off the bike.

Just brain storming, but the advice given depends greatly ... ah ... on the quality of the brain. YMMV.

Not really a grinding noise or feel, but whatever it is seems to be triggered by introducing torsional forces.
Appreciate lending me some of your grey matter! Mine's almost ready for Bourbon...

 

[oldcamper]

Service tells me nothing to see here and to adjust my windshield to mitigate the sound! WTF? I'd expect this kind of noise coming from under a well used, ragged out mount, but not a NEW BMW.
Are they impersonating insurance company adjusters here?- trying to deny a warranty issue on what I know is a real time condition that should be addressed? Also, is there a next step up the food chain with BMW if these jokers refuse to get this resolved?

There is a 1-800 customer support number but I suspect they just read from a script and tell you to work with your dealer, and might even send you a letter stating the same if you are insistent enough. In cases like this it’s often the regional BMW service rep that determines whether your concern needs to be investigated further ( and charged back to BMW ), but that person is usually kept well insulated from direct customer contact.

So, I think your best bet is to continue to work with the selling dealer. If there is something wrong with the bike it will eventually get fixed.

 

[PGlaves]

My first thought was - and still is - tire noise.

 

[LFarling]

Have to say it sounds like tire noise. If it was a bearing you could feel it on the center stand with weight on the rear seat, spinning the front wheel. Leaned over is the reason I say this. I forgot what tire came on my 15 RT but it made a horrible noise leaned over and I could not wait to get them off. I think I changed them early at a National to get them off. I would spin the front wheel with a mechanics stethoscope on it and listen. Harbor Freight sells them for a couple of bucks.

I hope you find the cause but I would look to front tire noise first. You have said it only does it leaned over and that is IMHO tire noise.

 

[dravnx]

The service writer and the mechanic both test rode the bike and couldn't find a problem. They have no reason to not make a warranty repair if they can detect a problem. The service department is the real profit center for the dealership and warranty work is gravy.

 

[Scott9999]

The service writer and the mechanic both test rode the bike and couldn't find a problem. They have no reason to not make a warranty repair if they can detect a problem. The service department is the real profit center for the dealership and warranty work is gravy.

There's basic "I don't give a f**k" issues throughout the workforce, unfortunately.

(Warning, long story about problem with dealer mechanics. 70% of it's to frame the issue, 'cause I'm a verbose writer. You've been warned. Maybe skip to "moral of the story" ... )

Back when Audi first introduced it's 5000 series sedan, which wowed all of the car writers, I saved up over a seven month Navy deployment, and intended to buy one overseas and have it shipped home. Not sure about the law now, but at that time, a person who was overseas for over six months, could avoid customs on items he or she brought back with him. Navy officers and senior enlisted, for example, would encounter Mercedes salesmen on the piers of various European ports. They could purchase have a Mercedes delivered back home for less than 2/3's the US price (I think it was about $11K or $12K out the door, back then). Unfortunately, due to real world commitments, my ship's port visits were cancelled or rescheduled on the fly. I had an authorized auto loan to buy an Audi 5000, and the check followed me from port to port, never arriving at the same port we were actually in. By the time we reached Hawaii on our way home, it was too late to do the deal.

However, as a young bachelor with no expenses other than foreign port liberties, I had saved a ton of money over the deployment, and had sufficient funds saved to pay cash for the Audi back in the states, at the US price. So, I got my dream car. It was until at least 10 years ago, the most beautiful, advanced, and well equipped car I've ever owned.

Then "life" happened. Got married. We had a baby. The Audi had a few reliability quirks, including regulators for the power windows that failed regularly, and cost $400 (probably like $2000 in today's dollars) per replacement. There were two replaced under warranty, and I picked up the tab on a 3rd.

Just after the car was out of warranty (3 years), I started having problems. The car wouldn't start at times, sounded like it was out of fuel. However, if it cooled off, it would restart. That kept happening at odd, inconvenient times, like at 11 PM after a long, 12 hour day, when I picked up the wife and our infant son to get them to the 24 hour grocery store, to pick up necessities. We shopped, went back to the car, and .. it wouldn't start. Meanwhile, night time temps in S. California were near freezing, and so was the car with my baby inside it. I think I finally got it running at 1AM, took the family home, and had to be up at 5AM to get back to work in L.A. It was about that point that I decided the Audi was an expensive toy that had to go, that I'd have to get a reliable car for the safety of my family, as well as just to be at work on time.

I had it into the Audi dealer three times, but the techs said "Sorry, can't reproduce the problem, nothings wrong." I finally got a tip from a buddy about a private shop that specialized in German vehicles. They were supposed to be the best of the best. I scheduled to bring it in, I think I had to wait 2-3 weeks at that time due to their full schedule. On the way to the shop, the car died. I restarted it, kept the revs up so that it wouldn't stall, and continued on. Then it stalled again in the middle of a busy intersection, and I had to push the dang thing out of the way. Got it started once more, and burned rubber trying to get the car to the shop, not only to avoid the cost of a two, but because the problem was finally repeating often enough that I might finally get an accurate diagnosis.

I pulled in, explained what was happening to the mechanic, as it died yet again. He immediately knew the problem's root cause. He reached into the tool box, grabbed a piece of insulated wire, opened the hood, pulled a relay, jumped the connection, and bang, restarted it fine. The cause was a failing relay that controlled the fuel pump, designed to prevent hot fuel from spilling into the engine bay in event of an accident. Fixed in 10 minutes, and off I went. Literally MONTHS of issues, three trips to the dealer, and they had no clue that it could be that relay. The mechanic said that again, it was a frequent failed part on those early Audi's. Yet, the dealer techs had no clue. Or, all they cared about was getting my car out of their service bay, and collecting their hourly rate.

Moral of the story ...

Bottom line, I think the techs who looked at your bike are worthless. If YOU as an experienced rider can feel the issue, and easily produce it, then the issue exists. The problem is, for whatever reason, the mechanic failing to diagnosis it. If you find a GOOD mechanic, even the problem, he'll accurately diagnose it. He won't tell you the problem doesn't exist and hand you back your keys.

More recently: My 2014 Ford Edge had a bad wheel bearing. I thought that the noise generated it was due to the tires, i.e. perhaps the guys balancing were doing a poor job (i.e. it was a low mileage, newer set of radials). However, when I put on the snow tires, the issue persisted. That's when I was pretty sure it was a bad wheel bearing (i.e. something I'd never experience in almost 50 years of driving). Took it into Ford. It took them HALF A DAY to diagnose the issue, which was passed up to Senior techs, who used the stethoscope to verify it. Then they charged about 2.5 hours to replace it (under an extended warranty). They only did the one side, so sure enough, six months later, the other side started making the same sound. I fixed it myself in 2 hours, without a lift and all the advantages that Ford techs have (including mechanical experience). Then as before, no one could hear the problem other than me. Second "bottom line": Competent techs wouldn't have required half a day to diagnose the problem, or almost three hours to R&R the bearing.

Good luck with resolving the issue. If you can get a referral from other owners to a better, private shop, I'd take it there and pay them for their analysis. If they discover that the issue is mechanical, take the bill back to the dealer, demand they pay it, plus fix your dang bike under warranty.

Or, K.I.S.S, keep it simple with even an easier diagnosing method. If you're pretty sure the cause is the tires (are they mounting Dunlaps now?), pay to strip off the OEM's, put on a clean, balanced set. Again, if it resolves the problem, take it back to the dealer and demand BMW Motorrad pay for the tire replacement. Your time and aggravation matter. You have a what, $30K++ new BMW? Pay $300 to a clean set of tires from Michelin, or whoever your goto tire company is. If the issue continues, then YOU'LL know that it's not the tires.

 

[LFarling]

More like 550.00-600.00 for tires and then mounting.

Maybe find a friend and swap the wheels out for a ride?

I for one know what howling, thumping tires sound like. I do believe Dun de laps were the howlers.

Again I hope you find the cause.

 

[crna59]

Yeah.... my tires got loud when I lean over. I think they were Anakee Adventure.... kinda' quiet when going straight. Replaced them with Road 6's and it's dead quiet.

 

[patm]

Yeah.... my tires got loud when I lean over. I think they were Anakee Adventure.... kinda' quiet when going straight. Replaced them with Road 6's and it's dead quiet.

Yeah, my thought exactly. I believe the gs comes with Anakee adventure tires and they're noisy.

 

[Scott9999]

More like 550.00-600.00 for tires and then mounting.

Maybe find a friend and swap the wheels out for a ride?

I for one know what howling, thumping tires sound like. I do believe Dun de laps were the howlers.

Again I hope you find the cause.

Yeah, I haven't kept up. Plus, the GS tires are more expensive than the road tires (RT's), which I ride. I picked up a couple of Michelin Road 6 tires on sale last year, which are still in storage. My recollection was that the set cost me $300, and was so sure I pulled up the actual receipt. Oops. $470. Well, they seemed cheap at the time. Anyhow, for what it's worth, at that time, rockymountainatvmc.com had great prices on tires.

But even at $600, if it resolves the problem, I believe that it'd be money well spent. If not, the old set can be remounted when the newer set wears out. Plus, one CAN mount and balance his own tires. It's been done, even by me. (However, those tools are pretty much been unused for a decade. Not a fun job to do yourself).

 

[omega man]

If it turns out that it’s just tire noise, I would run the bike as it is……using up the tires the bike came with. I like to get all the life out of equipment that I can.
The Heidenau K-60’s on the F-800 GS have a noise associated with them…… it’s okay (doesn’t bother) with me.
OM

 

[LFarling]

I agree to not waste rubber or parts.

But the OP needs to get a correct diagnosis of what his issue is. I hope for him it is just tires.

Easy to ignore once you know that is the issue. Just makes you ride more to get them off

 

[wbrownell9]

Not really a grinding noise or feel, but whatever it is seems to be triggered by introducing torsional forces.

I don't believe leaning the bike introduces any significant torsional forces along the longitudinal axis of the bike. The forces on the wheels always act the same as when the bike is upright: along a straight line between the contact patch and the CG of the bike/rider combination, i.e. along the vertical axis of the bike. The magnitude of the forces increases as you speed up and lean, so as far as the bike is concerned it's no different than if the force of gravity increased with the bike upright. True, the forces are no longer perpendicular to the earth's surface but that's irrelevant: if there were any net torsional forces the bike would become unbalanced and fall over.

If you want to reproduce the minor torques caused by the movement of the contact patch to the inside of the curve, you can try leaning the bike while going straight: move your body weight as far as you can to one side and you'll simulate a turn to the other side - torque and counter-torque. Shift in the saddle, or get crazy and stand on the "wrong" footpeg (assuming you're flexible enough and the road is clear).

Myself, diagnosing it over the internet from hundreds of miles away, I'm most inclined (ha!) to attribute it to tire noise.

 

[toter]

If the tires are Anakee Adventures, I would look to them as the problem. I bought a 21 GS with about 5,000 miles on it. The original owner had Anakee Adventures installed about 500 mi. prior to my purchasing the bike. Going straight they were silent. With just the slightest bit of lean angles, they howled excessively. I kept them on for 1,000 more miles. I then then took them off and threw them away, which was a great decision. Most aggravating tires I have ever had on a motorcycle. YMMV

 

[paul_f]

I have felt tires that were rough on a ride but never “heard” tires. However I do wear earplugs with every ride.

My question to everyone who at one time or another heard their tires, are you or not wearing earplugs?