Dual LC-1s Installed on Camhead

[roger 04 rt]

For the past year or so I've been working on Wideband O2 installations on my R1150RT. This past weekend, a friend completed the installation of a dual Innovate Motorsports LC-1 on his 2011 R1200GSA. Here is a link to the main thread I've got going in the other forum: 2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensor Project.

Over the past couple of weeks I've been working with the riders of a 2007 R1200GS and a 2011 R1200GSA to help them with their installations of dual Innovate Motorsports LC-1s. To my knowledge they are the first to install the LC-1 systems on the R1200. I'm taking this opportunity to preview the results.

There has been a lot we've learned about the installation and there is probably a small amount of fine tuning that will get done over the next month. The R1200 required different program settings but terryofperry has a GS-911 and was able to rapidly create the data that was needed to debug the installation. He's in Georgia and I'm in Massachusetts so the work was done by phone and e-mail. I'm surprised by how quickly this was accomplished.

The bottom line is that the 2011 R1200GSA has two Innovate Motorsports LC-1s installed and fully operational.

Just as a reminder, using the LC-1s results in a fully-functional Closed Loop integration with the BMS-K and requires no Dyno tuning to make it work, it leverages the full capability of the R1200, as designed.

Below is a chart of the two LC-1s, logging AFR data simultaneously, with histograms showing distributions of each independent cylinder's combustion, as measured by the LC-1, in the exhaust stream where the Wideband O2 sensors get installed in place of the stock Narrowband unit. From the results we have so far, the BMS-K is working, without the knowledge of the shift in Lambda (that's good), delivering richer fueling, and performance improvements similar to those of the R1150 installations.

 

[z3406]

OK What does this mean in English??

 

[roger 04 rt]

OK What does this mean in English??

Good question. Simply, my friend Terry replaced his stock Narrowband oxygen sensors with Wideband sensors. That allows him to very precisely program the amount of additional fuel injected into his motorcycle. In the case shown, he has added 6% to each side and the purpose of the graph is to show that each cylinder is running as programmed.

The benefit on a Camhead (which due to its having a better ECU and two oxygen sensors runs better than 1100s and 1150s) is improved smoothness and torque in the low RPMs and a cooler exhaust temperature. The benefit of adding fuel by programmable O2 sensors is that the BMS-K (ECU) is left fully functioning as designed--unlike using a Power Commander V, which disables the important Closed Loop functioning of the BMS-K.

Once installed, the entire fueling of the motorcycle can be shifted simply by the programming of one number (lambda, which means its Air to Fuel Ratio), no dyno time needed.

 

[jstrube]

Damn!

 

[Rinty]

The benefit on a Camhead (which due to its having a better ECU and two oxygen sensors runs better than 1100s and 1150s) is improved smoothness and torque in the low RPMs

So, Roger, on my 2005 Hexhead ST, the throttle action at lower rpms is somewhat abrupt. Would these wide band sensors smooth that out?

 

[roger 04 rt]

So, Roger, on my 2005 Hexhead ST, the throttle action at lower rpms is somewhat abrupt. Would these wide band sensors smooth that out?

Assuming that your motorcycle is in good tune, and otherwise running well, it is very likely that it would "soften" the throttle action a lot, and will add some muscle between 2000-3000 rpm. There have been three or four added to 1150s and two so far to 1200s but I have to admit that it is not simple to add this capability to a motorcycle. Like everything, there's a lot of hard work on the first few installations. If you can handle electronics and wiring, it's pretty easy but that is not everyone.

In the cases of the 1150 and 1200 it took a couple weeks of work to get the settings just right and to learn about many of each motorcycle's fueling capabilities. It seems now that for each of those bikes we (meaning me and those who've helped by taking data) have a formula for the installation. Sometime in the next couple weeks I'm going to document the 1200 wiring and settings just as I've done for the 1150s--http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?58505-Wideband-O2-Installation-Overview&highlight=wideband.

 

[155767]

Lc-1's installed

Cant I just put a bigger jet in the carby and fang it down the road for a mile or so to see if its better, or worserer.....????
What happened to sticking a prybar down the end of the muffler to open her up a little...man this makes me realise what a dinosaur I am......
Al

 

[roger 04 rt]

Cant I just put a bigger jet in the carby and fang it down the road for a mile or so to see if its better, or worserer.....????
What happened to sticking a prybar down the end of the muffler to open her up a little...man this makes me realise what a dinosaur I am......
Al

I hear you. When I was a kid, plugs were gapped by sight and tapping on the electrode, mixture was affected by bending a float arm and distributors were repaired with a file and pliers.

Now that it's been figured out, the is a replace part A with part B. Part A being the stock fixed O2 sensor, being replaced with part B, a sensor that a computer can program to a new, richer value. This is many times simpler than a Power Commander V and more effective in that it doesn't, in any way, disable part of the BMS-K like the PC V does.

 

[cjack]

Cant I just put a bigger jet in the carby and fang it down the road for a mile or so to see if its better, or worserer.....????
What happened to sticking a prybar down the end of the muffler to open her up a little...man this makes me realise what a dinosaur I am......
Al

What's a carb?

 

[roger 04 rt]

Terry is in the midst of a several hundred mile trip into the mountains on his 2011 R1200GSA with dual LC-1s and has sent me hours of very impressive data that I've been going through. I'll add some of it to the thread later today or tomorrow. A few things stand out:

1) The BMS-K spends much more time in closed loop operation than the Motronic MA 2.4. After acceleration or deceleration it returns to closed loop rapidly.

2) After the Adaptation Values are reset there are very obvious imbalances between the AFR of the Left and Right cylinders. It seems to take quite a bit of time and driving for the BMS-K's full adaptation matrix to be populated. During that time the L/R imbalances persist.

3) After hours and a hundred miles or more of riding, the L/R cylinders seem nearly identically matched. The BMS-K has a very potent ability to balance the two cylinders through it Adaptation Strategy.

4) The quality and consistency if the data is high and the BMS-K is not issuing any error codes. The BMS-K is fully functioning and fueling the motorcycle at the programmed lambda of 0.93 (as Terry has programmed it).

Overall I'm very impressed by effectiveness of dual LC-1s on the R1200 and also the power of the BMS-K to manage fueling and to balance the L/R cylinders.

There are some implications: 1) if you change the intake or exhaust, the BMS-K will fuel to the set-point of the O2 sensor; eventually adapt to it fully. There could still be different exhaust resonances for aftermarket systems which would result in richness or leanness at specific engine RPMs and loads. 2) Simple attempts to alter fueling will be negated by the BMS-K over time. However, reprogramming the value of lambda through the O2 sensor are not negated. In fact the BMS-K is fully engaged in the process of shifting fueling. 3) The BMS-K with adaptive fueling and adaptive spark is so powerful that Closed Loop should not be disabled without a lot of consideration. Disconnecting the O2 sensor, as with a Power Commander, will leave the motorcycle without its most important cylinder balancing tool.

RB

 

[jstrube]

Go buy 100 of these, program them, put instructions with them, re-box them & resell... I sense a moneymaking opportunity...

That said, I've been following this pretty closely. My R1200RT of 2005 vintage should have just one O2, right? I'm going to have to dig through your threads & see if I can get mine up & running... Once I finish 20 other projects.

 

[roger 04 rt]

Hi John, I'm working with someone who might put them together in a package. I'm still gathering data on how best to program and use them. I think that with some data Terry just sent this morning we have a good handle on the final settings.

Your R1200RT has two O2 sensors both are in the exhaust pipe, directly below the cylinder head, one on each side. I'm hoping that Terry will write up his experience with this but he's involved in a rally now. One of the things he mentioned, in addition to stronger roll-on power, is that he's getting slightly better gas mileage, even though he has programmed his mixture to 7% rich. He attributes this to running one higher gear (e.g. 5th instead of 4th) much of the time.

RB

 

[roger 04 rt]

Here is a report from an R1200GS rider who has been running an extended beta test (note that he is riding to full adaptation before his plans for a Dyno run):

"Hey ...
IF I can get enough miles on the bike I may shoot for a dyno run this coming Friday. If not it will probably be mid to latter part of the following week. I've got company coming to stay a few days this coming weekend into the first part of the following week.

I started at setting 7 on the AF-XIED's which was very good and a great improvement over stock then went to 8 after a couple of tanks of gas.
I haven't gotten enough miles yet to try setting 9. Based on what I feel at 8 I believe it will be too rich at 9 but I want to try it anyway just to be sure. The broad torque and power the bike is producing is just fantastic! It is so smooth with gentle throttle applications but yet when you twist it quickly it responds crisply and with such authority! I can even tell the difference in the sound coming out of the stock muffler! It has a deeper growl now, most pleasing to my ears and not too loud at all.

I usually ride solo with my wife on her own bike but we rode double on the GS the other day and put it to the test. It passed with flying colors! It will pull down to as low as 1500 rpm in 6th gear now although I wouldn't recommend it. From 2000-4500 rpm the bike is pure pleasure, almost dare I say, like a well tuned Harley! Yet when you wind her up to 8000 it feels, dare I say again, almost like a sport bike! Talk about the BEST of both worlds, this bike has it. I'm having a harder and harder time thinking of a reason to by a new water cooled GS!

Feel free to share with the forum if you want."

 

[franz]

I migrated from Harley and can tell you that the secret to great performance is in the tuning. Other benefits are cooler running, engine longevity and so forth. When I bought the BMW, I could not find info to start tuning my new R1200RT. I concluded that most folks don't seek performance. Still a mystery to me regarding why.

I seen the XIED contraption and assumed that was about as good as it was going to get until I stumbled upon the thread. Great info and please keep it coming. I want to add the wideband O2 sensors. What hardware do you suggest to make the adjustments to AFR? Will the XIED do the trick or do you recommend something else? Can GS911 adjust AFR? Please share the schematics when you can. Are the wide bands what you are referring to when you speak of wiring them in? You should market wide bands that plug and play.

 

[roger 04 rt]

I migrated from Harley and can tell you that the secret to great performance is in the tuning. Other benefits are cooler running, engine longevity and so forth. When I bought the BMW, I could not find info to start tuning my new R1200RT. I concluded that most folks don't seek performance. Still a mystery to me regarding why.

I seen the XIED contraption and assumed that was about as good as it was going to get until I stumbled upon the thread. Great info and please keep it coming. I want to add the wideband O2 sensors. What hardware do you suggest to make the adjustments to AFR? Will the XIED do the trick or do you recommend something else? Can GS911 adjust AFR? Please share the schematics when you can. Are the wide bands what you are referring to when you speak of wiring them in? You should market wide bands that plug and play.

The AF-XIED for BMW is about 10% of the effort of an LC-1 install with 95% of the benefit. The XIED needs no programming and the small adjustments you might want to try are simple. The only thing an LC-1 or LC-2 by innovate Motorsports has is datalogging, which I like.

Innovate now makes an LC-2, and for an r1200 you need two of them. Here is a link to how I installed one on the R1150: http://forums.bmwmoa.org/showthread.php?58505-Wideband-O2-Installation-Overview

Most of my friends who installed LC-1s told me that if the XIED had been available they would have installed that. Check with mike at Beemer boneyard. He removed a Powercommander and installed XIEDs. He's a believer now.

 

[roger 04 rt]

A couple of months ago the rider of an R1200GS decided to add an AF-XIED to his bike. He took his bike to a dyno before the modification and afterwards. The results and analysis of that testing can be found starting here: R1200GS Dyno Tests. Or you can jump to the end and see the results here: R1200GS Dyno Acceleration.

The chart of the results is below but it's worth at least following the Acceleration link above to put them in context.
RB

Average Acceleration: 19% better at 13.8:1
Two Best Accelerations: 14% better
Best Before (lean) to Worst After (richer): 8% better

 

[azgman]

I'd like to see two other parameters plotted; fuel consumption and emissions levels (I guess that would be more than one parameter).

What would be the cost of this improvement?

 

[roger 04 rt]

4000 mi. AF-XIED Mileage Report. He got about the same mileage with as without. (Above 70 on the highway, in sixth gear, you should lose 0.5 to 1 mpg. Depending on setting.) And the chart that goes with it:

Here is pricing info: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1200.html

As far as emissions go, like Powercommander, Techlusion, BoosterPlug and etc., they are not strictly street legal. Unlike those other products you can keep the enrichment small and likely still have a functioning catalytic converter, so Steve at Nightrider says.

 

[roger 04 rt]

Mixture Adaptation, Short/Long Term Trims, ECU Learning Exposed by the GS-911!

The Short Version
The GS-911 now reports long term trims for the BMSK which show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the BMW fueling strategy includes Long Term Trims, learned in Closed Loop by using the stock O2 sensor, which are applied to the entire fuel table. This means that the ECU learns about all fueling errors and most attempts to alter fueling on a stock bike. It learns about fueling changes (other than those made to the O2 sensor--e.g. LC-2 or AF-XIED) and brings fueling back to stock AFR.


The Long Version
For the past four years I've been explaining how the Motronic, BMSK and BMSX use the narrowband O2 (lambda) sensor to control combustion AFR in the Closed Loop area of the fuel table to accurate achieve lambda=1 (14.7:1 AFR for gasoline). It also allows those ECUs to learn how much correction is required throughout the Close Loop area and to therefore "learn" long term correction factors (mixture adaptations) that are applied throughout the fuel map--at idle, acceleration, all the way to full throttle--all the time.

Measurements reported throughout this thread have demonstrated the effects of this "learning" and many readers here have come to realize that our BMW motorcycle ECUs perform this powerful function. It allows the ECUs to adapt to changing conditions in the engine as it wears, as the fuel injectors and air filter accumulate deposits, imperfections and errors in all sensors, voltage deviations (even due to a failed alternator), fuel pressure changes, and even adapt to gasoline with ethanol.

This mixture adaptation also limits the ways in which you can alter fueling: modify the air temperature sensor and the ECU corrects fueling. Change the fuel pressure regulator and it learns about and fixes that too. Even modify values in the ECU fuel table in the onboard chip, and it corrects for that. However, alter the O2 sensor for richer or leaner fueling and the ECU obligingly shifts the entire fuel table automaticallY--e.g LC-2 or AF-XIED. (Another way to alter fueling successfully is to disconnect the O2 sensors & add a piggy back controller. This approach puts the ECU into a Limp-Home mode.)

In spite of the Bosch and BMW documentation mentioning mixture adaptation and long term trims, and even given the measurements of it shown in this thread and others, there are still many riders who aren't fully convinced. After all, until now there haven't been any gauges or displays which explicitly show the long term and short term trims at the heart of this "learning" capability.

Recently Hexcode SA, maker of the powerful GS-911 diagnostic tool, have added new realtime values to the long list reported for the BMSK ECU. In addition to the short term trims shown for the Closed Loop area (Lambda Correction Factors 1&2), the GS-911 now reports four new long term trims: Additive Trims 1 & 2 and Multiplicative Trims 1 & 2. The "1" trims are for the right cylinder and the "2" trims are for the left cylinder.

A colleague in the UK who has an R1200GS and owns a GS-911 and dual LM-2s (which can record AFR data and other info for both cylinders) with Wideband O2 sensors added to each exhaust. He took a ride the other day and sent in the LM-2 and GS-911 data, which includes a 13 second wide-open-throttle (WOT) run in 6th gear. This 6th gear "pull” shows for certain that long term trims exist and that they are applied to open loop fueling, right up to WOT.

Have a look at the table below. The data clearly shows the BMSK going open loop (highlighted in yellow) where the lambda control factors set to 1 (set to 1 there is no increase or decrease in fuel due to the immediate values of the O2 sensor) and clearly shows the application of the Long Term Multiplicative Trim at WOT. To understand the Multiplicative Trim, the number in the Injection Time column is multiplied by the number in the Multiplicative Trim column. Taking the first highlighted row, the 10.56 mS injection time is multiplied by 1.12 for the right cylinder and by 1.03 for the left cylinder resulting in Injection Times of 11.8 mS for the right cylinder and 10.9 mS for the left cylinder. In other words, the long term trim learned at lower power levels has been applied to this Open Loop area of fueling.

If you’re surprised that there is this much difference between the left and right cylinders, he confirmed that left and right cylinders had AFRs which tracked each other very closely by making an actual AFR measurement on both cylinders at the same time the GS-911 data was gathered.

Going a bit further, the multiplicative trim is not a single value for the whole but map but a table of values (how many have not yet been determined). There are 5 different long term multiplicative trims in this "pull" between 1800 and 4700 RPM. So the long term trim table is quite a bit larger than we'd expected.

There are also two long term additive trim types, for which there is a corresponding table of values. These additive long term trims affect small throttle angles and idle. The multiplicative trims affect cruising, acceleration and wider throttle angles.

[Summary]
This new GS-911 capability is an exciting development in the understanding of BMWs fueling strategy. It demonstrates clearly the complex ways in which its ECUs process data gathered in the Closed Loop fueling area and apply it to the entire fuel table, including acceleration and starting. At the moment, Hexcode has not added the collection of this data for the newer liquid cooled Boxers or for the older Motronics but the effect of the trims has been accurately measured on all bikes. If you care about this make sure to let Hexcode know that you’d like to see this data for your bikes too. (The BMSK is used on many different BMW bikes including the F800GS.)

As I receive more data from the field, I will add any important insights that are found.

 

[Hodadd]

Okay, let's cut to the chase. Does your system work on the camhead or not?

I can't follow the techno-speak.