Which oil? Why Bel-Ray?

[rchrdn2916]

I have a 2003 R1200 CL. My parts supplier suggests Bel-Ray petroleum 20-50 oil with no explanation, but my shop mechanic at a BMW dealership suggested BMW Advantec 15-50 oil due to its better lubricating values (his opinion). I have a Clymer manual that also suggest BMW Advantec 15-50 oil. My reasoning is if an oil matches the manufactures Api, Jaso, etc. required numbers it should be ok. Although I'm leaning towards the BMW Advantec oil because that's been ran in this motorcycle from previous owners and that's what I try to run in it.

 

[BC1100S]

I believe the spec'd oil for your bike is 20W-50 but either of those oils would be fine.

And welcome to the Forum!

 

[20774]

If you do riding where the temps are well below say 50 degrees, then maybe the 15-50 would be useful in that the 15w would flow a bit better in colder temps. But if the manual specifies 20w50, that's what I'd use. What API does your manual call for? My older Airhead requires an API of SF/SG which is somewhat harder to find on local shelves. But your 2003 might be SL/SM? If so, good quality oils should be easily available. I did an oil analysis of about 20 different oils in the March 2013 ON. Unfortunately I did not test any Bel-Ray products.

 

[brownie0486]

Living in Az., my mechanic uses 15-50 in my 11RT and 5-40 in the 16RS. I've used 20-50 often enough, rarely seeing temps under 40F about anywhere my trips take me across the US

 

[pauls1150]

First, of course, read the BMW Owners Manual for your bike and see what it says. Pay specific attention to the oil grade Rating (those API letters); a "newer" rating is NOT necessarily better than the one it supposedly superseded (usually because the EPA doesn't care about the wear inside your engine).
Then keep in mind that any dealership is pretty much obligated to use "genuine BMW parts".
Bel-Ray makes decent stuff, as do many other manufacturers; grade and additives' quantities and proportions are more important than the label.

 

[pglaves]

First, of course, read the BMW Owners Manual for your bike and see what it says. Pay specific attention to the oil grade Rating (those API letters); a "newer" rating is NOT necessarily better than the one it supposedly superseded (usually because the EPA doesn't care about the wear inside your engine).
Then keep in mind that any dealership is pretty much obligated to use "genuine BMW parts".
Bel-Ray makes decent stuff, as do many other manufacturers; grade and additives' quantities and proportions are more important than the label.

One minor correction: Oil ratings posted on the containers; (SG, SH, SJ, SM, etc) come from the American Petroleum Institute and not the EPA. Emissions regulations have some bearing on what car engine manufacturers wish to see in an oil but are not the driving force behind them.

Now for the rest of the story: The API has always maintained that any later rating exceeds all previous ratings but BMW AG has forcefully taken exception to that claim. So have other motorcycle manufacturers. When at the urging of car manufacturers the API introduced the SJ rating BMW urged BMW motorcycle dealers not so sell SJ oil and urged BMW motorcycle owners not to use SJ oil.

The reason was straight forward. The zinc, calcium and magnesium content of SG and SH oils was claimed to damage catalytic converters which had to be warranted for 7 years. So with the SJ (and later) ratings the amount of these anti-wear additives was reduced. This was acceptable to many car manufacturers whose engine designs included roller cam-followers, for example. BMW believed that the SJ oil lubrication of the flat tappet cam followers and other components on its engines would lead to unacceptable wear. They issued a service bulletin (SB#2855, November 25, 1998) in this regard.

All these 25 years later elements of the industry still agree with the position BMW took back then. SG and SH oils, mostly identified as motorcycle oils, are still available despite the continuing API claims that they are obsolete and that later ratings are just as good or better.

 

[elementist]

My 2013 F800GT manual called for SJ rated/JASO MA2 15-50 oil interestingly.

Maybe because it wasn't a BMW motor? Rotax made it iirc

Motul 5100 semi or 7100 full synth seems to be a commonly recommended brand vs the BMW advancec on various forums I'm on depending if you're starting on dino or synth oil.

 

[pglaves]

My 2013 F800GT manual called for SJ rated/JASO MA2 15-50 oil interestingly.

Maybe because it wasn't a BMW motor? Rotax made it iirc

Motul 5100 semi or 7100 full synth seems to be a commonly recommended brand vs the BMW advancec on various forums I'm on depending if you're starting on dino or synth oil.

Note that the service bulletin related to all models built prior to its issue in 1998. That advice still stands for those models, and some - but not all - later models where BMW has specified later API ratings. It relates both to the type of oil but also the oil delivery system built into each successive engine design.

That is why RTFM is so important, both as to the API rating and the recommended viscosity.

 

[Omega Man]

I have a 2003 R1200 CL. My parts supplier suggests Bel-Ray petroleum 20-50 oil with no explanation,

You mention parts supplier which makes me think that it is other than a BMW dealer? This makes me think that the "parts supplier" doesn't have the Advantec and wants to supply something that will work.

...... but my shop mechanic at a BMW dealership suggested BMW Advantec 15-50 oil due to its better lubricating values (his opinion). I have a Clymer manual that also suggest BMW Advantec 15-50 oil. My reasoning is if an oil matches the manufactures Api, Jaso, etc. required numbers it should be ok. Although I'm leaning towards the BMW Advantec oil because that's been ran in this motorcycle from previous owners and that's what I try to run in it.

If it meets spec, any oil that meets spec should be fine. That said, it's a 20 year old bike and if it has documentation that it's been running BMW (branded) oil for its whole life, why fight success?

OM

 

[globalrider]

I have a 2003 R1200 CL. My parts supplier suggests Bel-Ray petroleum 20-50 oil with no explanation.

Well the same year as my R1150 GSA and it has had Bel-Ray 20W-50 since the day I bought it new back in 2003. I have done all my own maintenance.

Back then it used to be 20W-50 EXP which was a mineral oil, but sometime thereafter it became a Synthetic Blend and the 20W-50 EXL has been a mineral oil since then.

I can see a full synthetic being of use if you do a lot of miles and very long tours, but check the API classification.

I use the 5W-40 Advantec Ultimate in my 2016 R1200 GSA, an MA oil since it has a wet clutch. Its probably a re-packaged Shell oil.

 

[kbasa]

Note that the service bulletin related to all models built prior to its issue in 1998. That advice still stands for those models, and some - but not all - later models where BMW has specified later API ratings. It relates both to the type of oil but also the oil delivery system built into each successive engine design.

That is why RTFM is so important, both as to the API rating and the recommended viscosity.

I think the pertinent point that Paul is making here is that there are other specifications beyond viscosity that we should be paying attention to, so RTFM, folks.

 

[skibum69]

Hey there 20774, just curious about your testing oil. Did you find much difference in the oils you tested? Was there any brand that performed significantly worse than others?

 

[Omega Man]

Hey there 20774, just curious about your testing oil. Did you find much difference in the oils you tested? Was there any brand that performed significantly worse than others?

You can search “oil analysis” in the Tag Cloud for some good reading.

OM

 

[20774]

Hey there 20774, just curious about your testing oil. Did you find much difference in the oils you tested? Was there any brand that performed significantly worse than others?

skibum -

Depends on what you want out of an oil. The focus of the article was levels of ZDDP, viscosity ratings, and a parameter called total base number (TBN). ZDDP has been discussed over the years as an important element for flat tappet engines such as the older Airheads. Some oils tested for high viscosity within the range of values meaning they could give up some of those qualities over the oil change period and still be within the viscosity range...some oils tested near the lower end of the viscosity range. As for TBN, oils with higher TBNs mean they can absorb more acids during use. High relative levels of acid in an oil are not good.

There were ranges of results in all these categories. Again, check the March 2013 in the online archives for the results.

 

[globalrider]

And in the end, I wonder how many owners that bought their motorcyle or car new and have had it that long, have had an oil related issue or failure with regular oil changes and maintenance?

I know I never have.

 

[kbasa]

I've been sending my Porsche's oil to Blackstone for analysis. I have a car that sometimes has a tendency to eat a specific bearing over time, so I'm watching for bearing material in the oil.

$30 is cheap insurance, IMHO. It's not that I think the oil has failed, it's that I'm looking for indications of bearing wear, ring blow by or the like in the oil. That said, the report does tell me whether the oil was "used up" or not at the same time.

 

[pglaves]

And in the end, I wonder how many owners that bought their motorcyle or car new and have had it that long, have had an oil related issue or failure with regular oil changes and maintenance?

I know I never have.

I have a slightly different viewpoint on this topic. Almost every need for a top end overhaul on an engine is oil related. Less common but equally lubrication related are connecting rod or main bearing wear. Ditto camshaft or follower wear. We have for a long time just accepted that after so many thousand miles an engine will need an overhaul. But the miles to failure will vary significantly depending on the lubrication: the oil used, its rating, its anti-wear characteristics, its viscosity, its quality, etc.

 

[kbasa]

I have a slightly different viewpoint on this topic. Almost every need for a top end overhaul on an engine is oil related. Less common but equally lubrication related are connecting rod or main bearing wear. Ditto camshaft or follower wear. We have for a long time just accepted that after so many thousand miles an engine will need an overhaul. But the miles to failure will vary significantly depending on the lubrication: the oil used, its rating, its anti-wear characteristics, its viscosity, its quality, etc.

Which is exactly why I monitor my oil. https://www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[riderr1150gsadv]

I've been sending my Porsche's oil to Blackstone for analysis. I have a car that sometimes has a tendency to eat a specific bearing over time, so I'm watching for bearing material in the oil.

$30 is cheap insurance, IMHO. It's not that I think the oil has failed, it's that I'm looking for indications of bearing wear, ring blow by or the like in the oil. That said, the report does tell me whether the oil was "used up" or not at the same time.

The infamous IMS bearing?
https://lnengineering.com/products/the-definitive-guide-and-faq-for-porsche-ims-bearings.html

 

[kbasa]

The infamous IMS bearing?
https://lnengineering.com/products/the-definitive-guide-and-faq-for-porsche-ims-bearings.html

Yep. I have an '05, so it can't be replaced without splitting the case, but if one is willing to remove the seal and keep your oil level correct, those bearings can live a long and happy life with lower rates of failure than other years.

But I'm still cautious and am monitoring. Two years in an nothing has shown up in the oil testing, so I feel pretty good. More importantly, I have the engine with the lowest frequency of bore scoring issues, which can be really, really awful.

But good grief I love that little car. It's like it's velcroed to the road or something.