valve noise?

[missmuddy]

Please excuse my noobness.

This is my first airhead (1979 r100rs) and I intend on doing most of the work on it myself.

I want to know how much clickety-clackety is "normal" for my bike. I have heard you set the valves where they go and let the noise be what it is.

I adjusted the valves. The rocker mounts had a little play in it and I pressed those tight(as per the half dozen articles on the web about valve adjustments). I must have done it right because it ran like a top afterwards, but man that bike is noisy. I rode without my helmet to the store the other day and was shocked at how noisy it is.
I checked the valves again after about 400 miles and they haven't moved and are set to the proper gap.

I am planning a 1000 miles ride to davenport and springfield in a couple weeks. Should I be worried? The bike has plenty of power and it idles well.

I listened to another bike like mine(1975 r/6 or 7) run a few weeks ago at a rally and it was much less clickety-clackety.

Could it be the timing chain making all the noise?

For the record: I am madly in love with my bike and am thoroughly impressed by the thoughtfulness of other airheads owners and their willingness to post articles on maintenance and repairs. Thanks!!

 

[JAMESDUNN]

Some noise is good and a feature of these bikes. A too quite airhead is not good! That may mean your valves are tightening up. On the other hand REAL noisy may mean you set them too loose. You state you heard another bike like yours and it was quiet compared to yours, but do you know that the valves were set properly on the other bike? They may have been too tight.

I set my intake valves at .15mm and the exhaust at .20mm though some use .10mm and .20mm respectively. Can be adjusted using inch equivalents as well; .10mm on the intake will be a little quieter.

You did not say so, but did you retorque the heads? Should not affect noise level however. If the sound is tappety and seems to emanate from the cylinder heads, you may have a weak or broken valve spring. Or, a worn rocker arm. If you've reviewed valve set procedure and it is correct I'd suspect a weak valve spring, if it was broken I think you would have noticed.

It could be a worn timing chain. But it could be many other things as well. What does it sound like? A knock? A rumble? Rattling? Hope not, then things are seriously wrong. But you have been riding the bike, so doubtful.

Finally, you did not say but how many miles are on the bike? To your knowledge has it had a valve job? Around 80-90,000 is valve job territory.

I'd get a shop or experienced mechanic to at least give a listen, and go from there. Good luck!

 

[TGHSMITH]

which style valve covers, the newer type deaded some of the noise, do you have the lower fairing sections on, they will funnel noise directly at you(to the rider it will sound like a differant bike with the lowers on or off) soft frairing pockets will also make a differance.. like the t-shirt said" loud valves save lives"

 

[missmuddy]

There is no faring on it but that is a good point.

I brought it up to a mechanic, he said they are set too loose. They are to the book's specs but I knew something didnt sound right.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[mmmalmberg]

If they are set to spec, then they are by definition not "too loose". If you can't hear them tapping you will have problems. Set them to spec, not by ear.

 

[missmuddy]

I didnt have them set properly the first time.I'm not going to say what i did wrong but it was definitely operator error.
They were pretty loose. Do you think I could have wrecked the valves by riding it with the valves set too loose?

I set them properly(this time for sure) but it still sounds loud.

What I need to do is hear a couple other airheads run so I can compare.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Bottom line- I need a second bike so I can mess around with one and not stress out.

 

[mmmalmberg]

better too loose than too tight. how's your compression, and how's the bike running? If you'd "wrecked" your valves the answers would probably not be good to either of these questions

 

[20774]

Another source for noise could be too much up and down movement of the entire rocker arm. When you're setting valves clearances on one particular side (at TDC on the compression stroke), you can see how much movement there is by grabbing the rocker arm tappet extension and move it up and down. If you can discern any significant movement, then there's too much play. You should only see a slight oil film movement it you look where the rocker arm meets the lower pillow block. Anton also has a good description of the rocker arm setup here:

http://www.largiader.com/tech/rockers/

The way to correct this is to loosen the upper and lower stud bolt and squeezed the two pillow blocks together, then tighten the head bolts in stages up to the right torque (use a torque wrench, torque should be about 25 ft-lbs). Duane has a discussion of this on his website.

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/valve/index.htm

A picture of the process is at:

http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/valve/valve7.JPG

Some people use a large c-clamp. It's probably a good idea to get some sockets that fit around the ends of the pillow blocks with the c-clamps or channel locks to get the pressure evenly distributed.

 

[tagman787]

We know what you did.

 

[The_Veg]

It's better to hear your valves than to smell them.

 

[missmuddy]

I used the socket method to squeeze the play out of the rocker arms when I did the valve adjustment. Thanks for the links.

It runs well although it bogs a little at high rpms. I have the omega electronic ignition coming in the mail which might help this. There is also a bit of smoke on the right side when I really push it. I don't think this has anything to with the valve lash.



Check it out:
about a month after i got this bike I found half of a broken off burnt up valve in the exhaust. It was rattling around in there. I know they did the top half not too long ago and I have no idea how many miles on it.

 

[44006]

"about a month after i got this bike I found half of a broken off burnt up valve in the exhaust. It was rattling around in there"

Statements like this make me wonder where all the metal bits went when the
valve separated its head - where did the keepers go(down the pushrod tube to
bounce about on top of the lifters?) What extent was the repair(just remove head?
or cyl&head? and by whom). Was the smoking cyl on same side as broken valve
part(scored cyl?) . What does the top of your piston look like? What does the
inside surface of the head combustion chamber look like? Was the repair only
minimal to get it to run and sell it? or Was it a thorough job?

Do you know the difference between noise of loose piston slap and tappet noise?

 

[missmuddy]

I trust the guy I bought it from. Not to stereotype, but he is an Austrian engineer and I can tell he took good care of the bike. He said the engine was rebuilt last year and I have all the receipts.
One of the receipts says: "Clean cylinders, Blend and contour chamber, machine seats/valves,"

It also says: "fit cylinders to new head, weld cylinder head, install and size exhaust".

I'm not sure it was done to both sides or just the one. Would it be standard procedure to do both or just the one that was shot?

I know this guy loved this bike so I feel like he took good care of it.

Yes, it smokes on the same side as where I found the valve(there is another piece of it rattling around in the muffler but it won't come out).

Is "piston slap" the same thing as "knocking"? I used to drive chevy trucks so I know what engine knocking sounds like

It idles nice. I think I have been shifting too early. Today I let it get up to just under 6000 before I shifted to 5th. She really moved! That was the fastest I've gone yet.


Thanks again for the input. There is so much to learn about this ****. i love it.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Well the repair work to the damaged head does not state whether new guides were installed, it could have been a "minimal" get-it-running affair. So oil being sucked down through damaged or worn valve guides would be a possibility. Among whatever other possibilities...

 

[missmuddy]

It says: " install and size exhaust guides(diamond hone)"
The writing on the receipt is hard to decipher but your last post was a great clue

Either way, it could have not been done right.

Also, it took a couple months of riding and reading and talking to people until i realised it should always be put on the center stand so i wonder if having it leaning to the right while i was using the kick stand might have done something?

How difficult is it to replace the valve springs? I look forward to going through this bike this winter but i just wanted to see if any of you guys would ride this bike on a 1000 miles trip.
I'm going to bring it to a mechanic to give it the once over before I go as was suggested.

Thanks again, I know my bike a little more now after this dialog.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Sounds like you got a complete valve job, so I would no longer suspect the valve guides. Parking it on the side stand shouldn't matter, unless it was an early K-bike.

Who is being the judge of whether it's too loud? Make sure someone who knows airheads is listening to it. I don't think valve springs are the issue unless one's broken, which you would know.

You could have a piston pin knock, piston slap, probably a few other things, or maybe everything's fine and you're just hearing the way it's supposed to sound. Maybe you could post a sound file, although it can be hard to judge how loud a sound is listening to it this way...

 

[criminaldesign]

or there could be nothing wrong...

 

[mmmalmberg]

like I said...

 

[missmuddy]

You guys rock. maybe its just a sloppy sounding bike.
Either way, i'm riding it to davenport and springfield next week.

 

[mmmalmberg]

Good luck on your trip! Just keep paying attention to any changes in the sound. And let us know how it goes!