Hi, I am going over a new to me 1981 R100RT. I pulled the rear wheel off today and shoed off the tire to find it did not have a tube. It held air for longer than I have owned it. I read Snowbum's article about tires, tubes and wheels. I would like to hear other members thoughts on running without tubes. I have ordered Michelin Pilot Actives with the traditional sizes. Thank you, Bill Wilson
-
Welcome, Guest! We hope you enjoy the excellent technical knowledge, event information and discussions that the BMW MOA forum provides. Some forum content will be hidden from you if you remain logged out. If you want to view all content, please click the 'Log in' button above and enter your BMW MOA username and password. If you are not an MOA member, why not take the time to join the club, so you can enjoy posting on the forum, the BMW Owners News magazine, and all of the discounts and benefits the BMW MOA offers?
tubeless tires
- Thread starter yogi21
- Start date
-
- Tags
- tube versus tubeless
52184
GTRider
Sort of a moot point if you’ve ordered traditional sizes as most of those are TT-rated (Tube-Type) and intended to be run with tubes. TL-rated tires (TubeLess) can be run either way. And if you have snowflake wheels on the bike they may well hold air without a tube—until they don’t. Then the tire is quite likely to come off the rim since there is not a tubless-retention bead inside the rim. And in the end, you’ll get a lot of anecdotal stories both ways, most ending with “run tubeless at your own risk” which is pretty much where you started.
Good luck,
DG
PGlaves
#13338
This is a hugely (bigley in today's lexicon) issue. Airhead wheels lack the rim construction for tubeless wheels. But you can stop the air leakage at the spokes with goop and stuff.
So is this safe?
Folks will argue ad infinitum (Latin for forever).
Read all you can and then decide. I avoid tube type tire because of all their faults. You are all free to assume the risks of failure.
So is this safe?
Folks will argue ad infinitum (Latin for forever).
Read all you can and then decide. I avoid tube type tire because of all their faults. You are all free to assume the risks of failure.
beemerphile
New member
The inch sized Pilot Activs are rated tube/tubeless, but the snowflake wheels are not. The OP just proved to himself that it CAN be done, and many have done it without incident for many years. But not everything that CAN be done SHOULD be done. I consider this to be one of those. The excitement awaiting @yogi21 is when he attempts to spoon those Pilot Activs onto the snowflake wheels with or without tubes!!! I'm expecting either a trip to the bike shop with tires and wheels in hand, or a very tired yogi with spent biceps and a slight tire spoon indentation in his forehead.
Seriously great tires, but a huge pain to install on snowflakes - especially manually und mit Schlauch.
happy wanderer
Day Dreaming ...
I keep hearing this. I laid my new Pilot Activs on a warm driveway for 20 mins and we spooned them right on my RS snowflakes. My secret weapon is RyGlyde from NAPA and some longer than tool pouch tire irons. Also use a set of Motion Pro bead breaker irons.
Another great tire on the RS is the Avon Roadriders. They go on and off like butter so if you expect rough roads and flats on a long trip they are the way to go. But the handling on the Michelins is a bit better IMO.
Oh and yeah, putting tubeless tires on snowflake rims is a dangerous idea. Tubeless rims have a larger bead area and are crosshatched such that the tire can't slide off the bead area easily. Snowflakes do not have either of these features.
Take a look at a oh say 1992 RS rim and a 82 RS rim. Check out the tire bead area. The 92 calls for tubeless tires. The 82 calls for tubes. When you look at the rims closely it makes sense why this is the way it is.
Yeah it will work right up until the tire bead slides off the rim. Read all about this on Snowbum's site.
Another great tire on the RS is the Avon Roadriders. They go on and off like butter so if you expect rough roads and flats on a long trip they are the way to go. But the handling on the Michelins is a bit better IMO.
Oh and yeah, putting tubeless tires on snowflake rims is a dangerous idea. Tubeless rims have a larger bead area and are crosshatched such that the tire can't slide off the bead area easily. Snowflakes do not have either of these features.
Take a look at a oh say 1992 RS rim and a 82 RS rim. Check out the tire bead area. The 92 calls for tubeless tires. The 82 calls for tubes. When you look at the rims closely it makes sense why this is the way it is.
Yeah it will work right up until the tire bead slides off the rim. Read all about this on Snowbum's site.
Semi Thread hijack warning
I like those Michelins Activ's too.
I use a tube on my 1978 R-80 wheels.
Question
If I were to get a flat out in the boonies, would using a can of Fix A Flat work on a tubed tire.
Obviously the hole wouldn't have to be too big..
Getting those Activs off and on by the side of the road might be too much for me.
I like those Michelins Activ's too.
I use a tube on my 1978 R-80 wheels.
Question
If I were to get a flat out in the boonies, would using a can of Fix A Flat work on a tubed tire.
Obviously the hole wouldn't have to be too big..
Getting those Activs off and on by the side of the road might be too much for me.
PAS
New member
Just mount the tubes on the outside of the tire, much easier to then patch the tube.
Friedle
Darryl Cainey
Sir Darby
I ran tubeless on my 77RS for over 10 years & several flats in 100,000 + miles, my friend has been running over 20 years with no issues.
happy wanderer
Day Dreaming ...
My sentiments exactly. I took my Michelins off and installed two new Avons for my big ride out east. Did not want to run out of tread and also wanted ease of repair in case I got a flat. Over 14,000 kms ridden on that trip and not a single flat! That's what happens when you have new tires and all the puncture repair tools with you...
happy wanderer
Day Dreaming ...
Yep. And we hear that every time it comes up. I encourage everyone to read Snowbum's article on this. Just because you've gotten away with it does not make is safe or recommended. Call up your tire manufacturer and tell them you want to run tubeless on tube style rims and see what they say about that. It's not just about having a flat. It's what happens when the bead comes off the rim.
pauls1150
MOA #24991, south of Los Angeles
Bead friction and sidewall flex (actually lack thereof). Many of us have experienced flats where continued rolling takes one side off the bead; this has happened to me while just pushing (as in "manually rolling") the bike. And this will destroy the tube, too.
jad01
New member
So, if I'm understanding it correctly:
Avons (which I use on my airheads), Michelins, or any tire specified as a combination tubeless/tube-OK type, it's likely to separate from the bead of a snowflake-type wheel and perhaps come off of the rim altogether in the event of a flat while riding, regardless of whether it is being used with a tube or run tubeless?
The reason I ask is that it seems to me if that is the case, then it probably doesn't matter whether a tube is employed or not, provided the wheels are not porous and will hold air reliably. The structure of the rim and the tire are the same regardless of whether there is a tube or not. A flat using a tube-type wheel is more likely to result in the tire breaking loose from the rim than wheels of the tubeless design when using a modern tire (rather than a tube-type specific tire).
Is that correct or am I missing something critical?
I'm not trying to stir the pot, just curious. I've read a few of these threads over the years, but I'm not sure I've seen a discussion of whether a tubeless tire would behave the same on a tube-type rim regardless of whether using a tube or not...
Avons (which I use on my airheads), Michelins, or any tire specified as a combination tubeless/tube-OK type, it's likely to separate from the bead of a snowflake-type wheel and perhaps come off of the rim altogether in the event of a flat while riding, regardless of whether it is being used with a tube or run tubeless?
The reason I ask is that it seems to me if that is the case, then it probably doesn't matter whether a tube is employed or not, provided the wheels are not porous and will hold air reliably. The structure of the rim and the tire are the same regardless of whether there is a tube or not. A flat using a tube-type wheel is more likely to result in the tire breaking loose from the rim than wheels of the tubeless design when using a modern tire (rather than a tube-type specific tire).
Is that correct or am I missing something critical?
I'm not trying to stir the pot, just curious. I've read a few of these threads over the years, but I'm not sure I've seen a discussion of whether a tubeless tire would behave the same on a tube-type rim regardless of whether using a tube or not...
m_stock10506
Well-known member
The difference I think, is that if the tire separates from the bead, as it is more likely to do on a tube-type rim, it will lose air totally and very quickly. With a tube inside, it is more likely that you will lose air slowly and have the opportunity to pull over before losing enough air to lose the bead. I agree that sometimes a tube will tear or rupture and lose most of the quickly anyway.
PAS
New member
Here is an exhaustive review of the subject by Snowbum.
http://http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section6.htm
http://http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/section6.htm
Similar threads
